Game 31: Providence

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Poison

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Re: Game 31: Providence
« Reply #80 on: March 04, 2017, 07:21:52 PM »
Mullin seemed very frustrated in the post game.  Agree with everything he said but low energy/lack of intensity or whatever you want to call it has been a problem all year. Coaching staff has to be accountable for that.

I don't mind him being frustrated. I mind that once again, we have a coach who doesn't realize that losing is his fault.

Re: Game 31: Providence
« Reply #81 on: March 05, 2017, 09:43:08 AM »
Couple of things that should be different next year besides overall wins.  Be more competitive and win more on the road and be more competitive in your losses even though they should be fewer.

What I mean by that is SJU lost 11 league games,  I think the only one they lost by single digits was Xavier at home and to be frank Xavier led a majority of that game by double digits especially before Sumner got hurt.

In other words how many losses did SJU have a decent chance at winning?  I would argue none.  They literally got outplayed and sometimes completely outplayed in all of them.  That's a problem as weird as it sounds.

If they are going to make a leap next year to say 11-7 they need to be competitive in most of the games to simply give themselves more opportunities to win.
Exactly and that comes down to our putrid defense. If these kids dont start putting effort on defense we are going to be needing to score 85 points a game to even have a shot at making a jump

Marillac

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Re: Game 31: Providence
« Reply #82 on: March 05, 2017, 11:01:12 AM »
Couple of things that should be different next year besides overall wins.  Be more competitive and win more on the road and be more competitive in your losses even though they should be fewer.

What I mean by that is SJU lost 11 league games,  I think the only one they lost by single digits was Xavier at home and to be frank Xavier led a majority of that game by double digits especially before Sumner got hurt.

In other words how many losses did SJU have a decent chance at winning?  I would argue none.  They literally got outplayed and sometimes completely outplayed in all of them.  That's a problem as weird as it sounds.

If they are going to make a leap next year to say 11-7 they need to be competitive in most of the games to simply give themselves more opportunities to win.

We had it within two possessions late last night. People can believe what they want, but to me the refs were clearly going to give Providence the benefit of the whistle for the sake of the conference. I'm fine with that too. A loss to us would have ended Providemce's chances to dance. Now, they are in.

derk

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Re: Game 31: Providence
« Reply #83 on: March 05, 2017, 11:05:58 AM »
A good reason for our putrid defense is because of the terrible job done by our front court. Yakwe Williams Owens AA. Did you see how they were abused yesterday. Yes there are other reasons. Ellison and to a degree even Ponds and Lovett have to want to stop the other team from scoring. Maybe with some more time on the pine and what Simon and Clarke will bring next year will rectify this problem . Its tough putting guys down when the subs are no better. Its a lot easier to go from 1 to 7 wins then it is from 7 to 11. Mullin has his hands full with group. Then again he'll have more options next year.

paultzman

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Re: Game 31: Providence
« Reply #84 on: March 05, 2017, 11:40:19 AM »
Couple of things that should be different next year besides overall wins.  Be more competitive and win more on the road and be more competitive in your losses even though they should be fewer.

What I mean by that is SJU lost 11 league games,  I think the only one they lost by single digits was Xavier at home and to be frank Xavier led a majority of that game by double digits especially before Sumner got hurt.

In other words how many losses did SJU have a decent chance at winning?  I would argue none.  They literally got outplayed and sometimes completely outplayed in all of them.  That's a problem as weird as it sounds.

If they are going to make a leap next year to say 11-7 they need to be competitive in most of the games to simply give themselves more opportunities to win.
Exactly and that comes down to our putrid defense. If these kids dont start putting effort on defense we are going to be needing to score 85 points a game to even have a shot at making a jump

+1

TONYD3

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Re: Game 31: Providence
« Reply #85 on: March 05, 2017, 11:47:54 AM »
Couple of things that should be different next year besides overall wins.  Be more competitive and win more on the road and be more competitive in your losses even though they should be fewer.

What I mean by that is SJU lost 11 league games,  I think the only one they lost by single digits was Xavier at home and to be frank Xavier led a majority of that game by double digits especially before Sumner got hurt.

In other words how many losses did SJU have a decent chance at winning?  I would argue none.  They literally got outplayed and sometimes completely outplayed in all of them.  That's a problem as weird as it sounds.

If they are going to make a leap next year to say 11-7 they need to be competitive in most of the games to simply give themselves more opportunities to win.
Exactly and that comes down to our putrid defense. If these kids dont start putting effort on defense we are going to be needing to score 85 points a game to even have a shot at making a jump

+1
For 2 years this team hasn't played defense. Without changing something what makes anyone think we will start playing defense next year?

Re: Game 31: Providence
« Reply #86 on: March 05, 2017, 11:51:29 AM »
People who were terrible yesterday: Ellison, Amar, Owens, Williams, Yakwe, our fans

Re: Game 31: Providence
« Reply #87 on: March 05, 2017, 11:53:24 AM »
Couple of things that should be different next year besides overall wins.  Be more competitive and win more on the road and be more competitive in your losses even though they should be fewer.

What I mean by that is SJU lost 11 league games,  I think the only one they lost by single digits was Xavier at home and to be frank Xavier led a majority of that game by double digits especially before Sumner got hurt.

In other words how many losses did SJU have a decent chance at winning?  I would argue none.  They literally got outplayed and sometimes completely outplayed in all of them.  That's a problem as weird as it sounds.

If they are going to make a leap next year to say 11-7 they need to be competitive in most of the games to simply give themselves more opportunities to win.
Exactly and that comes down to our putrid defense. If these kids dont start putting effort on defense we are going to be needing to score 85 points a game to even have a shot at making a jump

+1
For 2 years this team hasn't played defense. Without changing something what makes anyone think we will start playing defense next year?
Very good point because we had a huge upgrade in talent and the defense didnt improve. I cant just assume they will be better because they are a year older because they still should have been better on defense than the least talented team in SJU history last year

Re: Game 31: Providence
« Reply #88 on: March 05, 2017, 12:10:07 PM »
Couple of things that should be different next year besides overall wins.  Be more competitive and win more on the road and be more competitive in your losses even though they should be fewer.

What I mean by that is SJU lost 11 league games,  I think the only one they lost by single digits was Xavier at home and to be frank Xavier led a majority of that game by double digits especially before Sumner got hurt.

In other words how many losses did SJU have a decent chance at winning?  I would argue none.  They literally got outplayed and sometimes completely outplayed in all of them.  That's a problem as weird as it sounds.

If they are going to make a leap next year to say 11-7 they need to be competitive in most of the games to simply give themselves more opportunities to win.

We had it within two possessions late last night. People can believe what they want, but to me the refs were clearly going to give Providence the benefit of the whistle for the sake of the conference. I'm fine with that too. A loss to us would have ended Providemce's chances to dance. Now, they are in.

That is why I do not put a lot of stock in the increase in the wins from last year.   That is the easy part.  The hard part is taking it to the next level.  And then ultimately taking it Nova's level.

Again my point is its weird that essentially SJU won every game they had a realistic chance of winning.  They maxed out.  There really isn't a game in which you can argue, "Damn if Ponds didn't miss that one and one" or if "Yakwe had grabbed that rebound" I think SJU could've won that game.  They literally got whipped for the most part in their 11 losses.

That needs to change.  Marquette improved by 2 games this year over last but they will tell you they should've won 2 or so more.  Blew 3 point lead under a minute at SHU.  Up 7 under 5 minutes at Providence last week and lost.  Up 9 at halftime at Butler and lost.

QuanMan

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Re: Game 31: Providence
« Reply #89 on: March 05, 2017, 02:21:50 PM »
It'll be really interesting to see their effort and chemistry Wednesday night.

The past 3 weeks have been a HUGE disappointment. Losers of 4/5, no ball movement, iso ball, selfish play.

Marcus in particular has been putrid. I'm praying that this isn't his swan song, but man has he been all about himself for about a month.
Section 3
Section 116

Re: Game 31: Providence
« Reply #90 on: March 06, 2017, 01:03:33 AM »
Can't compete with that lineup. Mullin has to a better job subbing. Instead o saving the time out for the last seconds. Use the timeout and give Lovett a break.

You can't say that about Chris Mullin. He could take a dump on the court and it would smell like flowers.
Your right. I apologize !

Don't let it happen again.

Marillac

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Re: Game 31: Providence
« Reply #91 on: March 06, 2017, 11:46:44 AM »
Couple of things that should be different next year besides overall wins.  Be more competitive and win more on the road and be more competitive in your losses even though they should be fewer.

What I mean by that is SJU lost 11 league games,  I think the only one they lost by single digits was Xavier at home and to be frank Xavier led a majority of that game by double digits especially before Sumner got hurt.

In other words how many losses did SJU have a decent chance at winning?  I would argue none.  They literally got outplayed and sometimes completely outplayed in all of them.  That's a problem as weird as it sounds.

If they are going to make a leap next year to say 11-7 they need to be competitive in most of the games to simply give themselves more opportunities to win.

We had it within two possessions late last night. People can believe what they want, but to me the refs were clearly going to give Providence the benefit of the whistle for the sake of the conference. I'm fine with that too. A loss to us would have ended Providemce's chances to dance. Now, they are in.

That is why I do not put a lot of stock in the increase in the wins from last year.   That is the easy part.  The hard part is taking it to the next level.  And then ultimately taking it Nova's level.

Again my point is its weird that essentially SJU won every game they had a realistic chance of winning.  They maxed out.  There really isn't a game in which you can argue, "Damn if Ponds didn't miss that one and one" or if "Yakwe had grabbed that rebound" I think SJU could've won that game.  They literally got whipped for the most part in their 11 losses.

That needs to change.  Marquette improved by 2 games this year over last but they will tell you they should've won 2 or so more.  Blew 3 point lead under a minute at SHU.  Up 7 under 5 minutes at Providence last week and lost.  Up 9 at halftime at Butler and lost.

I see what you are saying. Close games can go either way and we have a few very close wins and next to no very close losses. I think a big reason for that is we are an exceptionally dangerous last minute team with a trio of good ball-handlers that shoot over 40% from three and 80% from the line and two of them are among the top 5 one-on-one offensive players in the conference.

As for the margin of defeat in losses, I don't put too much stock in it outside the nail biters because we weren't a complete team. We had some glaring holes. We didn't have anyone that could stay in front of a slashing 6'3-6'7 perimeter player. We had one guy who could body up in the post and he was only 6'8 and very rusty from not playing in a few years. Nobody could score inside. Gtown beat us by 28 the first game. I don't think they were 28 or even 10 points better than us. I think they were just a tough matchup and really exploited or weaknesses that night. We beat them in the second game and could have potentially blown them out if we had any semblance of depth and didn't have to turn to Ellison and AA in the court at the same time during their 17-0 run.

I look at it as wow, we won 7-8 conference games after Sima transferred without an interior scorer, with awful team defense (which can only improve), with our four best players being first year guys, without a defensive wing to stop ball and provide 4-6 easy fast breaks a game like Paris, and without any muscle whatsoever. And two of the best five guys on the roster didn't even play?!

TONYD3

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Re: Game 31: Providence
« Reply #92 on: March 06, 2017, 12:35:53 PM »
The Georgetown loss was an awful performance. No excuses for it. They are and have been a bad team the entire season. They didn't drop 90 plus on DePaul, which starts 0 star walkon Joe Hanel At center. He is no bigger then Amar and and slower then him also. Losing to Georgetown on the road isn't the issue. Getting absolutely destroyed is.

Cupboards,  skinny under classman (even though many are older then their class) shouldn't be excuses next year. Their is a clear problem. We need to play more physical and play some kind of defense. I hope Matt can get us another player. I believe mullin need to make a change on his staff. He should have fixed that issue last year!

We gave up 80 points every game in the last 10. How can you compete like that? Mistakes have been made, hopefully our coach fixes them.

derk

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Re: Game 31: Providence
« Reply #93 on: March 06, 2017, 12:56:20 PM »
What I don't like is that defense is hustle, desire and a lot of "want to". If coach couldn't instill that in this team, what makes you think he'll succeed next year with mostly the same crew. Hopefully Simon and Clarke can bring a little of what they learned at MSU and AZ.

Marillac

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Re: Game 31: Providence
« Reply #94 on: March 06, 2017, 02:02:26 PM »
What I don't like is that defense is hustle, desire and a lot of "want to". If coach couldn't instill that in this team, what makes you think he'll succeed next year with mostly the same crew. Hopefully Simon and Clarke can bring a little of what they learned at MSU and AZ.

Defense is a lot of desire...it's also physical and mental. Our guys overpursue/overcommit on the initial help and consistently fail in secondary and tertiary rotations. Experience and chemistry will help and you can really only learn that by making mistakes. The physical limitations were also apparent. Owens worked as hard as any big man I've ever seen wear our jersey, but he was on ice skates anytime anyone backed him up. We had nobody who could stay with slashing wings at all and we were consistently 75+ pounds lighter than the five guys on the court for the opposition.  That can be remedied.

Guys like AA and Ellison lack awareness that will probably prevent them from ever being good defenders. Ponds and Ellison don't. Simon, by all accounts, can be a stopper and had freaky long arms to get us easy buckets. Clark played two years for Izzo.

Still, the staff needs to get nasty with the guys on defense and rebounding. Zero tolerance for not boxing out, fighting over screens, and rotating tomely. The staff also needs to embrace the zone and change up defenses. I hope they only stick with man because it wa a throw away year and it is very hard to master.

SJUFAN

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Re: Game 31: Providence
« Reply #95 on: March 06, 2017, 02:38:50 PM »
Still, the staff needs to get nasty with the guys on defense and rebounding. Zero tolerance for not boxing out, fighting over screens, and rotating tomely. The staff also needs to embrace the zone and change up defenses. I hope they only stick with man because it wa a throw away year and it is very hard to master.

That is the concern. Will the staff do what is necessary in order to make the team play better defensively? Good defensive teams work on it in practice. Bad defensive teams has coaches who say they need to get better on defense, yet spend most of their practice time on offense or put Kurt Rambis is charge of the defense. The staff has to make defense a point of emphasis and begin holding players accountable.

Re: Game 31: Providence
« Reply #96 on: March 06, 2017, 03:29:42 PM »
The team needs to work on getting back on defense. Both Ponds and LoVett often go for steals and when they miss, they don't bust their tails to get back on D and the rest of the team is playing 4 on 5.

If the team can't box out their man in a man defense I'm afraid of what will happen if they tried rebounding in a zone defense.

derk

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Re: Game 31: Providence
« Reply #97 on: March 06, 2017, 04:05:23 PM »
The team needs to work on getting back on defense. Both Ponds and LoVett often go for steals and when they miss, they don't bust their tails to get back on D and the rest of the team is playing 4 on 5.

If the team can't box out their man in a man defense I'm afraid of what will happen if they tried rebounding in a zone defense.

True. They play that way because going for the swipe steal propels them in the direction of a layup rather then staying in front of your man and body up a bit. So even the steal defense is motivated by getting a layup on the other end. You have to make a commitment to defense as you said above.

Re: Game 31: Providence
« Reply #98 on: March 06, 2017, 04:19:08 PM »
The team needs to work on getting back on defense. Both Ponds and LoVett often go for steals and when they miss, they don't bust their tails to get back on D and the rest of the team is playing 4 on 5.

If the team can't box out their man in a man defense I'm afraid of what will happen if they tried rebounding in a zone defense.

Ponds gives zero effort on D, he's the last guy back always. Lovett gives more of a sht. But we wonder why Owens and Yakwe have to block shots?