CBI/CIT

I do understand the experience argument here but I think it's being way overstated. Playing 3 meaningless games against mid majors after playing 33 games isn't going to make this team any better.

I don't think the players will just be sitting in their dorm rooms now that the season is over. I'm sure they will be in the gym every day getting shots up and this is the time players work on their weaknesses. Maybe Owens will use the time to work on his low post game, something he can't do in games yet. Maybe Ahmed will work on a jump stop and pull up jumper to avoid charges, something he can't do in games yet.

Probably playing in the CBI is not going to make anyone a better basketball player or the team that much better, But "let them sit at home in their room" is certainly not a recipe for success. If it was they'd be national champions. Owens has six months to work on his low post game and Ahmed has six months to work on his jump shot, which they can do  on their own. The team does not have six months to be better at playing basketball collectively, which they can only do as a group. No one would argue that they should not play a couple of meaningless games together in the fall in some stupid preseason tournament because Owens might have better spent his time improving his jump shot. Everyone would say thank goodness for the experience. To the extent that it's even likely a post season appearance is a no brainer.

Quote from: goredmen on March 10, 2017, 07:34:12 PM

I do understand the experience argument here but I think it's being way overstated. Playing 3 meaningless games against mid majors after playing 33 games isn't going to make this team any better.

I don't think the players will just be sitting in their dorm rooms now that the season is over. I'm sure they will be in the gym every day getting shots up and this is the time players work on their weaknesses. Maybe Owens will use the time to work on his low post game, something he can't do in games yet. Maybe Ahmed will work on a jump stop and pull up jumper to avoid charges, something he can't do in games yet.

Probably playing in the CBI is not going to make anyone a better basketball player or the team that much better, But "let them sit at home in their room" is certainly not a recipe for success. If it was they'd be national champions. Owens has six months to work on his low post game and Ahmed has six months to work on his jump shot, which they can do  on their own. The team does not have six months to be better at playing basketball collectively, which they can only do as a group. No one would argue that they should not play a couple of meaningless games together in the fall in some stupid preseason tournament because Owens might have better spent his time improving his jump shot. Everyone would say thank goodness for the experience. To the extent that it's even likely a post season appearance is a no brainer.

If it's a no brainer than by all means we should play. It is something we specialize in.

Quote from: Dave on March 10, 2017, 06:10:43 PM

Personally I'd decline the invite. Not because St. John's is above that but because I wouldn't want the guys to play March ball unless it's NIT or NCAA. Let them sit at home in their room while guys are playing and let that sink in. Make 'em hungry for next year.

If they're not hungry give their scholarships to somebody who is Mike Jarvis. Isn't that what got him fired, that he said he'd no longer be recruiting local players, because they weren't hungry enough? Good grief. We stink but let's not play anymore and possibly get better, let's all stew in the fact that we suck. You people are mentally ill. 

I'll take the Jarvis crew that won the NIT over the Lavin crew that didn't care at all.

Quote from: Foad on March 10, 2017, 06:30:36 PM

Quote from: Dave on March 10, 2017, 06:10:43 PM

Personally I'd decline the invite. Not because St. John's is above that but because I wouldn't want the guys to play March ball unless it's NIT or NCAA. Let them sit at home in their room while guys are playing and let that sink in. Make 'em hungry for next year.

If they're not hungry give their scholarships to somebody who is Mike Jarvis. Isn't that what got him fired, that he said he'd no longer be recruiting local players, because they weren't hungry enough? Good grief. We stink but let's not play anymore and possibly get better, let's all stew in the fact that we suck. You people are mentally ill. 

I'll take the Jarvis crew that won the NIT over the Lavin crew that didn't care at all.

Totally agree with you there. I went to all 5 of those NIT games and had a great time. Beating Georgetown in final was great. But was that the one they stole from us or was it the Jayson Williams one we won under Lou?

Quote from: goredmen on March 10, 2017, 07:34:12 PM

I do understand the experience argument here but I think it's being way overstated. Playing 3 meaningless games against mid majors after playing 33 games isn't going to make this team any better.

I don't think the players will just be sitting in their dorm rooms now that the season is over. I'm sure they will be in the gym every day getting shots up and this is the time players work on their weaknesses. Maybe Owens will use the time to work on his low post game, something he can't do in games yet. Maybe Ahmed will work on a jump stop and pull up jumper to avoid charges, something he can't do in games yet.

Probably playing in the CBI is not going to make anyone a better basketball player or the team that much better, But "let them sit at home in their room" is certainly not a recipe for success. If it was they'd be national champions. Owens has six months to work on his low post game and Ahmed has six months to work on his jump shot, which they can do  on their own. The team does not have six months to be better at playing basketball collectively, which they can only do as a group. No one would argue that they should not play a couple of meaningless games together in the fall in some stupid preseason tournament because Owens might have better spent his time improving his jump shot. Everyone would say thank goodness for the experience. To the extent that it's even likely a post season appearance is a no brainer.

And what happens when someone tears their ACL in some meaningless tournament against low majors?

But was that the one they stole from us or was it the Jayson Williams one we won under Lou?

The Jarvis title  was stolen from us.

Quote from: Celtics11 on March 10, 2017, 10:43:30 PM

But was that the one they stole from us or was it the Jayson Williams one we won under Lou?

The Jarvis title  was stolen from us.

Thanks, that's what I thought. the old Abe Kieta 300 dollars a month fiasco.

Quote from: Foad on March 10, 2017, 08:19:48 PM

Quote from: goredmen on March 10, 2017, 07:34:12 PM

I do understand the experience argument here but I think it's being way overstated. Playing 3 meaningless games against mid majors after playing 33 games isn't going to make this team any better.

I don't think the players will just be sitting in their dorm rooms now that the season is over. I'm sure they will be in the gym every day getting shots up and this is the time players work on their weaknesses. Maybe Owens will use the time to work on his low post game, something he can't do in games yet. Maybe Ahmed will work on a jump stop and pull up jumper to avoid charges, something he can't do in games yet.

Probably playing in the CBI is not going to make anyone a better basketball player or the team that much better, But "let them sit at home in their room" is certainly not a recipe for success. If it was they'd be national champions. Owens has six months to work on his low post game and Ahmed has six months to work on his jump shot, which they can do  on their own. The team does not have six months to be better at playing basketball collectively, which they can only do as a group. No one would argue that they should not play a couple of meaningless games together in the fall in some stupid preseason tournament because Owens might have better spent his time improving his jump shot. Everyone would say thank goodness for the experience. To the extent that it's even likely a post season appearance is a no brainer.

And what happens when someone tears their ACL in some meaningless tournament against low majors?

That would be bad. Come to think of it the bus might crash on the way to the meaningless game killing everyone aboard, which would be even worse. Or one of them might choke on a sandwich during the pre game meal, although since they're not sitting in their dorm rooms getting hungrier maybe that's not a realistic scenario. And then on the other hand what if one of them doesn't get hit by a car crossing Utopia Parkway because instead of crossing Utopia Parkway which they might otherwise have been doing they're playing a meaningless tournament game against a low major and that player goes on to develop a cure for cancer? So if we don't play in the CBI millions might die who otherwise would have been saved. That's a tough call, you've really opened up a can of existential worms with your insightful question.

Of course you play in this tourney if invited.

SJU is in no position to pick and choose if they want to play in a postseason tourney or not.

Of course you play in this tourney if invited.

SJU is in no position to pick and choose if they want to play in a postseason tourney or not.

Exactly. This is what deserve whether they like it or not. If someone wants to quit the team, let them. Frankly, I'd happily lose half of these guys.

Quote from: Celtics11 on March 10, 2017, 10:43:30 PM

But was that the one they stole from us or was it the Jayson Williams one we won under Lou?

The Jarvis title  was stolen from us.

The hell it was

Quote from: Foad on March 10, 2017, 08:19:48 PM

Quote from: goredmen on March 10, 2017, 07:34:12 PM

I do understand the experience argument here but I think it's being way overstated. Playing 3 meaningless games against mid majors after playing 33 games isn't going to make this team any better.

I don't think the players will just be sitting in their dorm rooms now that the season is over. I'm sure they will be in the gym every day getting shots up and this is the time players work on their weaknesses. Maybe Owens will use the time to work on his low post game, something he can't do in games yet. Maybe Ahmed will work on a jump stop and pull up jumper to avoid charges, something he can't do in games yet.

Probably playing in the CBI is not going to make anyone a better basketball player or the team that much better, But "let them sit at home in their room" is certainly not a recipe for success. If it was they'd be national champions. Owens has six months to work on his low post game and Ahmed has six months to work on his jump shot, which they can do  on their own. The team does not have six months to be better at playing basketball collectively, which they can only do as a group. No one would argue that they should not play a couple of meaningless games together in the fall in some stupid preseason tournament because Owens might have better spent his time improving his jump shot. Everyone would say thank goodness for the experience. To the extent that it's even likely a post season appearance is a no brainer.

And what happens when someone tears their ACL in some meaningless tournament against low majors?

Then tough shit. You're on a basketball team, and the season may not be over yet. If the staff doesn't want to accept a bid to the CBI or the CIT because they think we're above it, I'd be fine with firing them right now. They should learn their damn place, and right now that place is in the CBI or the CIT. They consider themselves lucky to be invited, and they should take it seriously.

Quote from: Poison on March 10, 2017, 10:32:25 PM

Quote from: Foad on March 10, 2017, 06:30:36 PM

Quote from: Dave on March 10, 2017, 06:10:43 PM

Personally I'd decline the invite. Not because St. John's is above that but because I wouldn't want the guys to play March ball unless it's NIT or NCAA. Let them sit at home in their room while guys are playing and let that sink in. Make 'em hungry for next year.

If they're not hungry give their scholarships to somebody who is Mike Jarvis. Isn't that what got him fired, that he said he'd no longer be recruiting local players, because they weren't hungry enough? Good grief. We stink but let's not play anymore and possibly get better, let's all stew in the fact that we suck. You people are mentally ill. 

I'll take the Jarvis crew that won the NIT over the Lavin crew that didn't care at all.

Totally agree with you there. I went to all 5 of those NIT games and had a great time. Beating Georgetown in final was great. But was that the one they stole from us or was it the Jayson Williams one we won under Lou?

If you went to the game, nothing was stolen from us. I blame Jarvis for not being better at cheating, and for not keeping his damn mouth shut.

Quote from: Johnny23 on March 11, 2017, 09:54:32 AM

Of course you play in this tourney if invited.

SJU is in no position to pick and choose if they want to play in a postseason tourney or not.

Exactly. This is what deserve whether they like it or not. If someone wants to quit the team, let them. Frankly, I'd happily lose half of these guys.

+1

This debate is insane.   You get better by playing more.
The end. 
Whether it's 1% better or 10% better is irrelevant.
You do everything you can to improve.

This debate is insane.   You get better by playing more.
The end. 
Whether it's 1% better or 10% better is irrelevant.
You do everything you can to improve.

Did St. John's get better from playing Robert Morris?

If you can get up for playing the national champions in a sold out MSG, how are you going to get up to play St. Peter's in an empty alumni hall? As a fan do you want to go that game ? Baldi would you go?

The goal is to compete in the big east, how does beating up on St. Peter's help accomplish that ? Assuming we could.

You guys really want to watch even on tv any more of this team this year?

Quote from: desco80 on March 11, 2017, 12:18:35 PM

This debate is insane.   You get better by playing more.
The end. 
Whether it's 1% better or 10% better is irrelevant.
You do everything you can to improve.

Did St. John's get better from playing Robert Morris?

If you can get up for playing the national champions in a sold out MSG, how are you going to get up to play St. Peter's in an empty alumni hall? As a fan do you want to go that game ? Baldi would you go?

The goal is to compete in the big east, how does beating up on St. Peter's help accomplish that ? Assuming we could.

You guys really want to watch even on tv any more of this team this year?

Absolutely I'd go. This is a young team. They need as much game experience as they can get. If it's St.Peter's, then great. They play solid defense. It would be a worthwhile opponent. So would Hofstra.

This debate is insane.   You get better by playing more.
The end. 
Whether it's 1% better or 10% better is irrelevant.
You do everything you can to improve.

Yes, it's ridiculous.

More game action is good for the players, even if it's against the likes of St. Peter's. Who I'm not overly confident we could easily beat.  It seems to me that the only argument against this is a pride thing, that we are somehow "above" playing in a tournament like this. We're not.

Quote from: desco80 on March 11, 2017, 12:18:35 PM

This debate is insane.   You get better by playing more.
The end. 
Whether it's 1% better or 10% better is irrelevant.
You do everything you can to improve.

Did St. John's get better from playing Robert Morris?

If you can get up for playing the national champions in a sold out MSG, how are you going to get up to play St. Peter's in an empty alumni hall? As a fan do you want to go that game ? Baldi would you go?

The goal is to compete in the big east, how does beating up on St. Peter's help accomplish that ? Assuming we could.

You guys really want to watch even on tv any more of this team this year?

Exactly

I checked out at half-time of the Nova game.  I'll see them next year.