Mussini Gone

I think staff must go with Lovett, Ponds, Simon, Ahmed, and Yawke with Clark, Owens, Wilson, and Amar in that order off bench

Can't believe we can't find any grad transfer who can give some emergency minutes at 4/5.

Do need another guard 

That starting line up can if Yakwe returns rebound the ball like Tyrone Grant, Ahmed is a Lavor Postell clone and Clark Jr. is Anthony Glover.

the single greatest thing Lavin has ever done regarding basketball was realizing that Norm's 6th and 7th men from the previous season were his two best basketball players.

You must add the caveat "at St. Johns".  His elite 8 and 4 sweet sixteen appearances are greater things.

Quote from: sju89tr on June 07, 2017, 03:47:58 PM

I think staff must go with Lovett, Ponds, Simon, Ahmed, and Yawke with Clark, Owens, Wilson, and Amar in that order off bench

Can't believe we can't find any grad transfer who can give some emergency minutes at 4/5.

Do need another guard 

That starting line up can if Yakwe returns rebound the ball like Tyrone Grant, Ahmed is a Lavor Postell clone and Clark Jr. is Anthony Glover.

I was watching those games the other day on ESPN classic and was hoping Ahmed could play like Postell. Dude was playing like it was last game of his life.

Quote from: Marillac on June 07, 2017, 05:39:25 PM

Quote from: Foad on June 07, 2017, 05:13:08 PM

Quote from: Marillac on June 07, 2017, 03:46:10 PM

Quote from: Foad on June 07, 2017, 03:33:11 PM

Quote from: Marillac on June 07, 2017, 02:58:07 PM

Lavin didn't inherit a tournament team.

[...]

Lavin's problem, besides not being able to coach a lick,

So he inherited a group of players who did not comprise a tournament team, added one player who averaged four points a game, and despite his "not being able to coach a lick," he made the tournament. That's quite a feat.

I understand you hate Lavin and I agree he proved himself to be a nitwit, but that tournament team was all about Dunlap. Without him, we probably win 8-9 conference games.

And I understand that you hate Norm and I agree he was a lousy coach but he left Lavin a roster with 10 seniors, most of whom went on to play professional basketball, plus your boy Malik Stith.

It was also the most unbalanced roster modern college basketball has ever seen. It required Lavin to take risks just like Mullin and staff had to do with what Lavin left them. That doesn't excuse either staff from finishing off the roster competently. We will lose at least two games this year due to lack of size at center and PF even if everything goes right.

If I am to give Norm credit for anything, the man did fill in his roster competently after inheriting Showtime, Hamilton, and some misfits. He just couldn't get the top recruits. That is the hard part. It's June and we have nine scholarship players for next year -- one being Amar.

Do you really need more than 9 players

Look at the elite 8 team, we had around 7 serviceable guys

The short answer to that is no, but, again, having 9 guys is a helluva lot different than playing 9 guys. Boeheim played 7-8 regularly some years, but he plays exclusively zone to keep players fresh and out of foul trouble and he always had a full capable roster. There were always times he had to go to that depth to stay in a game.

Our center could only play 18.8 mpg last year when we needed him to play 35. Alibegegovic and Clark have crazy fouls per minute stats as well. What if Yakwe has another first half like this last season that renders him virtually useless?

Quote from: Poison on June 07, 2017, 07:22:54 PM

Quote from: sju89tr on June 07, 2017, 03:47:58 PM

I think staff must go with Lovett, Ponds, Simon, Ahmed, and Yawke with Clark, Owens, Wilson, and Amar in that order off bench

Can't believe we can't find any grad transfer who can give some emergency minutes at 4/5.

Do need another guard 

That starting line up can if Yakwe returns rebound the ball like Tyrone Grant, Ahmed is a Lavor Postell clone and Clark Jr. is Anthony Glover.

I was watching those games the other day on ESPN classic and was hoping Ahmed could play like Postell. Dude was playing like it was last game of his life.

That was the last wing we've had that played that hard on the glass. He crashed the offensive glass with reckless abandon and it broke teams backs. Nobody can deal with three guys crashing glass like Artest, Grant, and Postell.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on June 07, 2017, 11:02:02 PM

Quote from: Poison on June 07, 2017, 07:22:54 PM

Quote from: sju89tr on June 07, 2017, 03:47:58 PM

I think staff must go with Lovett, Ponds, Simon, Ahmed, and Yawke with Clark, Owens, Wilson, and Amar in that order off bench

Can't believe we can't find any grad transfer who can give some emergency minutes at 4/5.

Do need another guard 

That starting line up can if Yakwe returns rebound the ball like Tyrone Grant, Ahmed is a Lavor Postell clone and Clark Jr. is Anthony Glover.

I was watching those games the other day on ESPN classic and was hoping Ahmed could play like Postell. Dude was playing like it was last game of his life.

That was the last wing we've had that played that hard on the glass. He crashed the offensive glass with reckless abandon and it broke teams backs. Nobody can deal with three guys crashing glass like Artest, Grant, and Postell.

Postell's style of play is something that you either have or don't have in you.  Unfortunately, I don't think Ahmed has that in him.  That's not a knock on Ahmed, but that's just not his make up.  I've said before Postell and Artest were blue-collar players, but they both were quite talented (I loved Grant's play, but he wasn't as talented as Artest and Postell).

It was fun watching that group play starting around late December '97 (beating Notre Dame on the road) 'til their Elite 8 run in March of '99.

Quote from: Marillac on June 07, 2017, 11:38:47 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on June 07, 2017, 11:02:02 PM

Quote from: Poison on June 07, 2017, 07:22:54 PM

Quote from: sju89tr on June 07, 2017, 03:47:58 PM

I think staff must go with Lovett, Ponds, Simon, Ahmed, and Yawke with Clark, Owens, Wilson, and Amar in that order off bench

Can't believe we can't find any grad transfer who can give some emergency minutes at 4/5.

Do need another guard 

That starting line up can if Yakwe returns rebound the ball like Tyrone Grant, Ahmed is a Lavor Postell clone and Clark Jr. is Anthony Glover.

I was watching those games the other day on ESPN classic and was hoping Ahmed could play like Postell. Dude was playing like it was last game of his life.

That was the last wing we've had that played that hard on the glass. He crashed the offensive glass with reckless abandon and it broke teams backs. Nobody can deal with three guys crashing glass like Artest, Grant, and Postell.

Postell's style of play is something that you either have or don't have in you.  Unfortunately, I don't think Ahmed has that in him.  That's not a knock on Ahmed, but that's just not his make up.  I've said before Postell and Artest were blue-collar players, but they both were quite talented (I loved Grant's play, but he wasn't as talented as Artest and Postell).

It was fun watching that group play starting around late December '97 (beating Notre Dame on the road) 'til their Elite 8 run in March of '99.

It was fun watching that team play relentless defense.  There were four NBA players on the squad.  Postell was on the Knicks for three years.  He joined the army a couple of years after 9/11.

Quote from: we are sju on June 07, 2017, 03:42:12 PM

If Norm was coaching that team we don't make the tourney!

Not convinced. Add some more exclamation points.

I can go Elaine Benes on you!
If Norm! Were coaching, Hardy and Brownlee! Would both be coming off the bench!
DJ Kennedy! Was more equipped to be a third option! Paris Horne! Was more of a role player!
If Kennedy and Horne! Were our two main options, as they were under Norm! We would not have made the tournament!

Quote from: Foad on June 07, 2017, 05:14:16 PM

Quote from: we are sju on June 07, 2017, 03:42:12 PM

If Norm was coaching that team we don't make the tourney!

Not convinced. Add some more exclamation points.

I can go Elaine Benes on you!
If Norm! Were coaching, Hardy and Brownlee! Would both be coming off the bench!
DJ Kennedy! Was more equipped to be a third option! Paris Horne! Was more of a role player!
If Kennedy and Horne! Were our two main options, as they were under Norm! We would not have made the tournament!

Yada yada yada, I disagree.

Quote from: Marillac on June 07, 2017, 05:39:25 PM

Quote from: Foad on June 07, 2017, 05:13:08 PM

Quote from: Marillac on June 07, 2017, 03:46:10 PM

Quote from: Foad on June 07, 2017, 03:33:11 PM

Quote from: Marillac on June 07, 2017, 02:58:07 PM

Lavin didn't inherit a tournament team.

[...]

Lavin's problem, besides not being able to coach a lick,

So he inherited a group of players who did not comprise a tournament team, added one player who averaged four points a game, and despite his "not being able to coach a lick," he made the tournament. That's quite a feat.

I understand you hate Lavin and I agree he proved himself to be a nitwit, but that tournament team was all about Dunlap. Without him, we probably win 8-9 conference games.

And I understand that you hate Norm and I agree he was a lousy coach but he left Lavin a roster with 10 seniors, most of whom went on to play professional basketball, plus your boy Malik Stith.

It was also the most unbalanced roster modern college basketball has ever seen. It required Lavin to take risks just like Mullin and staff had to do with what Lavin left them. That doesn't excuse either staff from finishing off the roster competently. We will lose at least two games this year due to lack of size at center and PF even if everything goes right.

If I am to give Norm credit for anything, the man did fill in his roster competently after inheriting Showtime, Hamilton, and some misfits. He just couldn't get the top recruits. That is the hard part. It's June and we have nine scholarship players for next year -- one being Amar.

Do you really need more than 9 players

Look at the elite 8 team, we had around 7 serviceable guys

The game is different now. Refs call everything and lately our players aren't smart enough to stay out of foul trouble

Quote from: goredmen on June 06, 2017, 05:50:58 PM

Quote from: Marillac on June 06, 2017, 05:28:28 PM

Quote from: we are sju on June 06, 2017, 05:20:47 PM

Quote from: Marillac on June 06, 2017, 05:10:00 PM

This is beginning to feel a lot like Lavin. Who cares if you land guys like Sid Wilson if you can't  take care of your basic roster needs. We don't have a center on the roster. We have two guards on scholarship and Justin Simon. We don't have one player over 235 lbs. Xavier wins consistently because they always have a full quality roster. This shorthanded  nonsense is getting old .

Our backup center is listed at 6'7 210.

I agree with the issues up front but what does that have to do with Mussini leaving? I am not going to go crazy about losing our 4th guard.

What happens if Ponds sprains his ankle...the season just ends? You can't have two guards and a player like Simon unless you play zone. We don't. This is NYC. We have quality guards growing on trees. How can we possibly go into the season with just two on the roster?

You need continuity and experience to be successful if you don't have Anthony Davis type talent. Mussini had 18-22 minutes waiting for him and you can't minimize that role. No team would ever win if they didn't have a handful of role players.

Simon is a guard. We have 3 guards. Yes, 4 would be nice but we have 3 and it's not the end of the world because we have 3 other guys that can play the 3. UNC played only 3 guards the entire tournament. Kansas played 3 guards all season. It's a disappointing loss but not the end of the world

Please don't compare this mess to UNC.  There is a difference between playing a short rotation and having no depth. UNC probably had some top 100 "scrub" ready behind the rotation guys.  We have Elijah Holifield. 

We have an excellent core and it won't matter once again because we can't fill in the roster.  What part of that is different than Lavin? How is it possible for us to simultaneously be the smallest team in the league and only have 2-3 guards?

Bash doesn't have the handle to play big minutes at guard...not even close.  Sid at the two as a freshman?  That's a fvcking joke right there. Why can our staffs never finish off a goddamn roster? Lavin gets Harrison/ Branch/Greene/Jordan/Sampson and can't pickup a big or PG.  Now we're going to waste our time with Ponds, the best player we've had in 20 years, because we don't have a backup center or adequate depth at guard?  What a pitiful reason to waste a season.

Bump

I agree we're wasting this season away in part because of lack of depth.   But Ponds isn't the best player we've had in 20 years.  In reverse chronological order... Harrison, Hardy, Hatten, Cook, Barkley, Arrest ...were all better.   

I agree we're wasting this season away in part because of lack of depth.   But Ponds isn't the best player we've had in 20 years.  In reverse chronological order... Harrison, Hardy, Hatten, Cook, Barkley, Arrest ...were all better.   

Cook would be a waste on this team. Nobody could catch his passes. We never saw Hardy or Hatten as sophs and Hardy wasn't even a starter as a junior on a 6-win Big East team. Harrison couldn't touch Ponds athletically.

Quote from: desco80 on January 10, 2018, 07:18:39 AM

I agree we're wasting this season away in part because of lack of depth.   But Ponds isn't the best player we've had in 20 years.  In reverse chronological order... Harrison, Hardy, Hatten, Cook, Barkley, Arrest ...were all better.   

Cook would be a waste on this team. Nobody could catch his passes. We never saw Hardy or Hatten as sophs and Hardy wasn't even a starter as a junior on a 6-win Big East team. Harrison couldn't touch Ponds athletically.

It's time for you to really look at the numbers and recognize that your Nba lock/"best player we've had in 20 years", who I like by the way, is part of the problem.

He's shooting 19% from deep.  That's only 2% more than Da Ali B.

Quote from: Marillac on June 06, 2017, 09:32:18 PM

Quote from: goredmen on June 06, 2017, 05:50:58 PM

Quote from: Marillac on June 06, 2017, 05:28:28 PM

Quote from: we are sju on June 06, 2017, 05:20:47 PM

Quote from: Marillac on June 06, 2017, 05:10:00 PM

This is beginning to feel a lot like Lavin. Who cares if you land guys like Sid Wilson if you can't  take care of your basic roster needs. We don't have a center on the roster. We have two guards on scholarship and Justin Simon. We don't have one player over 235 lbs. Xavier wins consistently because they always have a full quality roster. This shorthanded  nonsense is getting old .

Our backup center is listed at 6'7 210.

I agree with the issues up front but what does that have to do with Mussini leaving? I am not going to go crazy about losing our 4th guard.

What happens if Ponds sprains his ankle...the season just ends? You can't have two guards and a player like Simon unless you play zone. We don't. This is NYC. We have quality guards growing on trees. How can we possibly go into the season with just two on the roster?

You need continuity and experience to be successful if you don't have Anthony Davis type talent. Mussini had 18-22 minutes waiting for him and you can't minimize that role. No team would ever win if they didn't have a handful of role players.

Simon is a guard. We have 3 guards. Yes, 4 would be nice but we have 3 and it's not the end of the world because we have 3 other guys that can play the 3. UNC played only 3 guards the entire tournament. Kansas played 3 guards all season. It's a disappointing loss but not the end of the world

Please don't compare this mess to UNC.  There is a difference between playing a short rotation and having no depth. UNC probably had some top 100 "scrub" ready behind the rotation guys.  We have Elijah Holifield. 

We have an excellent core and it won't matter once again because we can't fill in the roster.  What part of that is different than Lavin? How is it possible for us to simultaneously be the smallest team in the league and only have 2-3 guards?

Bash doesn't have the handle to play big minutes at guard...not even close.  Sid at the two as a freshman?  That's a fvcking joke right there. Why can our staffs never finish off a goddamn roster? Lavin gets Harrison/ Branch/Greene/Jordan/Sampson and can't pickup a big or PG.  Now we're going to waste our time with Ponds, the best player we've had in 20 years, because we don't have a backup center or adequate depth at guard?  What a pitiful reason to waste a season.

Bump

Rome wasn't built in a day, so they say. We are not wasting our time with Ponds, he is part of the rebuild process. Each year we have improved our roster, that's all we can ask for. There are flaws in the roster but each year it improves, the problem is, we are in the Big East and going up against established programs. This is already our third rebuild this millennium. The only time the cupboard wasn't bare when the next coach took over we were a top 25 team. The reality was we were hoping we could be a NCAA tourney team, and that is if we were at full strength. We are not good enough to withstand the loss of Lovett. Next year we will be in a even better position.