17-18 Player Contributions

Quote from: Poison on June 18, 2017, 10:45:24 AM

Quote from: wpc77 on June 18, 2017, 09:51:52 AM

Quote from: Marillac on June 18, 2017, 04:41:24 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on June 16, 2017, 08:23:59 AM

Quote from: Marillac on June 15, 2017, 04:52:10 PM

Quote from: Poison on June 15, 2017, 11:01:59 AM

Quote from: Courts603 on June 15, 2017, 10:26:15 AM

Quote from: Poison on June 14, 2017, 07:47:10 AM

Quote from: Courts603 on June 13, 2017, 09:28:50 PM

Quote from: Poison on June 13, 2017, 01:49:10 PM

Since it's the beginning of the summer, it's a perfect time to day dream about actually being good again.

Here's how I think the player production will play out.
Of course, this is just a guess, so keep that in mind.

Starters
SG Ponds - 18.5 PPG | 4.4 rebounds | 3.1 assists | 2 steals
PG LoVett - 12 PPG | 5.3 assists | 1.9 steals
SF Simon - 6.8 PPG | 4.3 rebounds | 3.5 assists | 2.1 steals
PF Ahmed - 12.1 PPG | 4.8 rebounds | .7 assists
C Owens - 7.5 PPG | 7.1 rebounds | 1.1 assists | 2.2 blocks

Bench
PF/C Yakwe - 3.5 PPG | 2.5 rebounds | 1 block
PF/C Clark Jr - 4.2 PPG | 6.1 rebounds
SF/PF Alibegovic - (in limited time) 4.1 PPG | 3.1 rebounds 
SG Trimble - 3.1 PPG | 1 rebound
SF Wilson - 2.7 PPG | 1.3 rebounds | .8 blocks

Ellison, the player we all loved to hate averaged 7.4 last year, are we really expecting a top 30 recruit like Simon to score less?

Yes, I am. Ellison played on two teams with very few options. He had the opportunity.

I know rankings aren't everything, but as a recruit Simon was ranked higher than Tyler Dorsey, Donovan Mitchell, Tyler Lydon and Marcus LoVett. I really hope we're underestimating how good this kid is.

I expect Simon to be better than Ellison. I expect him to be a defensive stopper but that's only because of what I've read about him. Ellison scored over 7 a game only because he was a good 3 point shooter. Simon apparently isn't. Since we have a roster loaded with guys who can shoot the 3, I think Simon is likely not to be guy taking too many of them. That's not to say he's not good, but that's one reason why I think he'll score less. But hey, who knows?

Simon is going to both create and score a ton of very easy baskets, especially while on the court with Ponds. The posters mentioning the Mullin/Mitch shooting definitely have a point too. Everyone shoots as good or better than we expected. If only defense were that way.

Our Andre Iguodala

Yep, or to keep it more familiar, a taller Paris Horne without the jumper and with a handle (for a SF/SG).  It was crazy to me how many easy points we got when Paris was on the court, especially with Boothe. That will be a welcome addition to the team because I've never seen a group get less easy points than the last two years. It's hard to win games when you give up 15+ uncontested or lightly contested its per game and don't do the same or better yourself.

That's what happens when you only have 3 major level players on your roster.  This year we will have 5, hopefully 7 if Wilson develops quickly and the coaches teach ahmed how to best utilize his talents

I think Ahmed's development will be on his shoulders. The staff wants him to stop hogging the ball, and at times he did share it more. They all did, but when shots don't fall, we see a greedier style of play. As a senior, it's on him to settle things down, as opposed to making them significantly worse. We've had seniors who did the little things well, like box out and go all out for loose balls. Ahmed does none of the little things. That's what is missing from his game, and it's missing in the form of leadership anywhere on the team.

I think the staff was pretty clear in how often they wanted him to be aggressive and take it to the hole. They said he would "live at the free throw line." Simon and Clark both relieve him of some of the  pressure of being the only non-guard who can score.

I don't think the staff was telling him to dribble through the triple team.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on June 16, 2017, 08:23:59 AM

Quote from: Marillac on June 15, 2017, 04:52:10 PM

Quote from: Poison on June 15, 2017, 11:01:59 AM

Quote from: Courts603 on June 15, 2017, 10:26:15 AM

Quote from: Poison on June 14, 2017, 07:47:10 AM

Quote from: Courts603 on June 13, 2017, 09:28:50 PM

Quote from: Poison on June 13, 2017, 01:49:10 PM

Since it's the beginning of the summer, it's a perfect time to day dream about actually being good again.

Here's how I think the player production will play out.
Of course, this is just a guess, so keep that in mind.

Starters
SG Ponds - 18.5 PPG | 4.4 rebounds | 3.1 assists | 2 steals
PG LoVett - 12 PPG | 5.3 assists | 1.9 steals
SF Simon - 6.8 PPG | 4.3 rebounds | 3.5 assists | 2.1 steals
PF Ahmed - 12.1 PPG | 4.8 rebounds | .7 assists
C Owens - 7.5 PPG | 7.1 rebounds | 1.1 assists | 2.2 blocks

Bench
PF/C Yakwe - 3.5 PPG | 2.5 rebounds | 1 block
PF/C Clark Jr - 4.2 PPG | 6.1 rebounds
SF/PF Alibegovic - (in limited time) 4.1 PPG | 3.1 rebounds 
SG Trimble - 3.1 PPG | 1 rebound
SF Wilson - 2.7 PPG | 1.3 rebounds | .8 blocks

Ellison, the player we all loved to hate averaged 7.4 last year, are we really expecting a top 30 recruit like Simon to score less?

Yes, I am. Ellison played on two teams with very few options. He had the opportunity.

I know rankings aren't everything, but as a recruit Simon was ranked higher than Tyler Dorsey, Donovan Mitchell, Tyler Lydon and Marcus LoVett. I really hope we're underestimating how good this kid is.

I expect Simon to be better than Ellison. I expect him to be a defensive stopper but that's only because of what I've read about him. Ellison scored over 7 a game only because he was a good 3 point shooter. Simon apparently isn't. Since we have a roster loaded with guys who can shoot the 3, I think Simon is likely not to be guy taking too many of them. That's not to say he's not good, but that's one reason why I think he'll score less. But hey, who knows?

Simon is going to both create and score a ton of very easy baskets, especially while on the court with Ponds. The posters mentioning the Mullin/Mitch shooting definitely have a point too. Everyone shoots as good or better than we expected. If only defense were that way.

Our Andre Iguodala

Yep, or to keep it more familiar, a taller Paris Horne without the jumper and with a handle (for a SF/SG).  It was crazy to me how many easy points we got when Paris was on the court, especially with Boothe. That will be a welcome addition to the team because I've never seen a group get less easy points than the last two years. It's hard to win games when you give up 15+ uncontested or lightly contested its per game and don't do the same or better yourself.

Why do you insist on comparing our future point guard to small forwards?    Justin Simon is a point guard.   Period. Stop. 
That's what he calls himself.  And that's what the staff refers to him as.    They intend to use him as the primary ball handler.   
Can't express it any clearer.    He will lead out team in assists and have the ball in his hands more than any other player.   

Quote from: Marillac on June 18, 2017, 04:41:24 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on June 16, 2017, 08:23:59 AM

Quote from: Marillac on June 15, 2017, 04:52:10 PM

Quote from: Poison on June 15, 2017, 11:01:59 AM

Quote from: Courts603 on June 15, 2017, 10:26:15 AM

Quote from: Poison on June 14, 2017, 07:47:10 AM

Quote from: Courts603 on June 13, 2017, 09:28:50 PM

Quote from: Poison on June 13, 2017, 01:49:10 PM

Since it's the beginning of the summer, it's a perfect time to day dream about actually being good again.

Here's how I think the player production will play out.
Of course, this is just a guess, so keep that in mind.

Starters
SG Ponds - 18.5 PPG | 4.4 rebounds | 3.1 assists | 2 steals
PG LoVett - 12 PPG | 5.3 assists | 1.9 steals
SF Simon - 6.8 PPG | 4.3 rebounds | 3.5 assists | 2.1 steals
PF Ahmed - 12.1 PPG | 4.8 rebounds | .7 assists
C Owens - 7.5 PPG | 7.1 rebounds | 1.1 assists | 2.2 blocks

Bench
PF/C Yakwe - 3.5 PPG | 2.5 rebounds | 1 block
PF/C Clark Jr - 4.2 PPG | 6.1 rebounds
SF/PF Alibegovic - (in limited time) 4.1 PPG | 3.1 rebounds 
SG Trimble - 3.1 PPG | 1 rebound
SF Wilson - 2.7 PPG | 1.3 rebounds | .8 blocks

Ellison, the player we all loved to hate averaged 7.4 last year, are we really expecting a top 30 recruit like Simon to score less?

Yes, I am. Ellison played on two teams with very few options. He had the opportunity.

I know rankings aren't everything, but as a recruit Simon was ranked higher than Tyler Dorsey, Donovan Mitchell, Tyler Lydon and Marcus LoVett. I really hope we're underestimating how good this kid is.

I expect Simon to be better than Ellison. I expect him to be a defensive stopper but that's only because of what I've read about him. Ellison scored over 7 a game only because he was a good 3 point shooter. Simon apparently isn't. Since we have a roster loaded with guys who can shoot the 3, I think Simon is likely not to be guy taking too many of them. That's not to say he's not good, but that's one reason why I think he'll score less. But hey, who knows?

Simon is going to both create and score a ton of very easy baskets, especially while on the court with Ponds. The posters mentioning the Mullin/Mitch shooting definitely have a point too. Everyone shoots as good or better than we expected. If only defense were that way.

Our Andre Iguodala

Yep, or to keep it more familiar, a taller Paris Horne without the jumper and with a handle (for a SF/SG).  It was crazy to me how many easy points we got when Paris was on the court, especially with Boothe. That will be a welcome addition to the team because I've never seen a group get less easy points than the last two years. It's hard to win games when you give up 15+ uncontested or lightly contested its per game and don't do the same or better yourself.

Why do you insist on comparing our future point guard to small forwards?    Justin Simon is a point guard.   Period. Stop. 
That's what he calls himself.  And that's what the staff refers to him as.    They intend to use him as the primary ball handler.   
Can't express it any clearer.    He will lead out team in assists and have the ball in his hands more than any other player.   

Lovett is the PG and primary ball handler.

The best comparison for Simon is Kris Dunn.   Except he can't shoot as well as Dunn, for now. 

The best comparison for Simon is Kris Dunn.   Except he can't shoot as well as Dunn, for now. 

Geez. I'm not arguing that Simon isn't a point guard but let's cool it with the Kris Dunn comparisons

Quote from: Marillac on June 18, 2017, 04:41:24 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on June 16, 2017, 08:23:59 AM

Quote from: Marillac on June 15, 2017, 04:52:10 PM

Quote from: Poison on June 15, 2017, 11:01:59 AM

Quote from: Courts603 on June 15, 2017, 10:26:15 AM

Quote from: Poison on June 14, 2017, 07:47:10 AM

Quote from: Courts603 on June 13, 2017, 09:28:50 PM

Quote from: Poison on June 13, 2017, 01:49:10 PM

Since it's the beginning of the summer, it's a perfect time to day dream about actually being good again.

Here's how I think the player production will play out.
Of course, this is just a guess, so keep that in mind.

Starters
SG Ponds - 18.5 PPG | 4.4 rebounds | 3.1 assists | 2 steals
PG LoVett - 12 PPG | 5.3 assists | 1.9 steals
SF Simon - 6.8 PPG | 4.3 rebounds | 3.5 assists | 2.1 steals
PF Ahmed - 12.1 PPG | 4.8 rebounds | .7 assists
C Owens - 7.5 PPG | 7.1 rebounds | 1.1 assists | 2.2 blocks

Bench
PF/C Yakwe - 3.5 PPG | 2.5 rebounds | 1 block
PF/C Clark Jr - 4.2 PPG | 6.1 rebounds
SF/PF Alibegovic - (in limited time) 4.1 PPG | 3.1 rebounds 
SG Trimble - 3.1 PPG | 1 rebound
SF Wilson - 2.7 PPG | 1.3 rebounds | .8 blocks

Ellison, the player we all loved to hate averaged 7.4 last year, are we really expecting a top 30 recruit like Simon to score less?

Yes, I am. Ellison played on two teams with very few options. He had the opportunity.

I know rankings aren't everything, but as a recruit Simon was ranked higher than Tyler Dorsey, Donovan Mitchell, Tyler Lydon and Marcus LoVett. I really hope we're underestimating how good this kid is.

I expect Simon to be better than Ellison. I expect him to be a defensive stopper but that's only because of what I've read about him. Ellison scored over 7 a game only because he was a good 3 point shooter. Simon apparently isn't. Since we have a roster loaded with guys who can shoot the 3, I think Simon is likely not to be guy taking too many of them. That's not to say he's not good, but that's one reason why I think he'll score less. But hey, who knows?

Simon is going to both create and score a ton of very easy baskets, especially while on the court with Ponds. The posters mentioning the Mullin/Mitch shooting definitely have a point too. Everyone shoots as good or better than we expected. If only defense were that way.

Our Andre Iguodala

Yep, or to keep it more familiar, a taller Paris Horne without the jumper and with a handle (for a SF/SG).  It was crazy to me how many easy points we got when Paris was on the court, especially with Boothe. That will be a welcome addition to the team because I've never seen a group get less easy points than the last two years. It's hard to win games when you give up 15+ uncontested or lightly contested its per game and don't do the same or better yourself.

Why do you insist on comparing our future point guard to small forwards?    Justin Simon is a point guard.   Period. Stop. 
That's what he calls himself.  And that's what the staff refers to him as.    They intend to use him as the primary ball handler.   
Can't express it any clearer.    He will lead out team in assists and have the ball in his hands more than any other player.   

Andre Iguodala (my comparison not Marillac) has played point guard in the NBA, is 6'6, and does everything on the basketball court extremely well except shoot the basketball.

The best comparison for Simon is Kris Dunn.   Except he can't shoot as well as Dunn, for now. 

You have to read the dosage on the edibles before eating the entire thing.

Quote from: Marillac on June 18, 2017, 04:41:24 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on June 16, 2017, 08:23:59 AM

Quote from: Marillac on June 15, 2017, 04:52:10 PM

Quote from: Poison on June 15, 2017, 11:01:59 AM

Quote from: Courts603 on June 15, 2017, 10:26:15 AM

Quote from: Poison on June 14, 2017, 07:47:10 AM

Quote from: Courts603 on June 13, 2017, 09:28:50 PM

Quote from: Poison on June 13, 2017, 01:49:10 PM

Since it's the beginning of the summer, it's a perfect time to day dream about actually being good again.

Here's how I think the player production will play out.
Of course, this is just a guess, so keep that in mind.

Starters
SG Ponds - 18.5 PPG | 4.4 rebounds | 3.1 assists | 2 steals
PG LoVett - 12 PPG | 5.3 assists | 1.9 steals
SF Simon - 6.8 PPG | 4.3 rebounds | 3.5 assists | 2.1 steals
PF Ahmed - 12.1 PPG | 4.8 rebounds | .7 assists
C Owens - 7.5 PPG | 7.1 rebounds | 1.1 assists | 2.2 blocks

Bench
PF/C Yakwe - 3.5 PPG | 2.5 rebounds | 1 block
PF/C Clark Jr - 4.2 PPG | 6.1 rebounds
SF/PF Alibegovic - (in limited time) 4.1 PPG | 3.1 rebounds 
SG Trimble - 3.1 PPG | 1 rebound
SF Wilson - 2.7 PPG | 1.3 rebounds | .8 blocks

Ellison, the player we all loved to hate averaged 7.4 last year, are we really expecting a top 30 recruit like Simon to score less?

Yes, I am. Ellison played on two teams with very few options. He had the opportunity.

I know rankings aren't everything, but as a recruit Simon was ranked higher than Tyler Dorsey, Donovan Mitchell, Tyler Lydon and Marcus LoVett. I really hope we're underestimating how good this kid is.

I expect Simon to be better than Ellison. I expect him to be a defensive stopper but that's only because of what I've read about him. Ellison scored over 7 a game only because he was a good 3 point shooter. Simon apparently isn't. Since we have a roster loaded with guys who can shoot the 3, I think Simon is likely not to be guy taking too many of them. That's not to say he's not good, but that's one reason why I think he'll score less. But hey, who knows?

Simon is going to both create and score a ton of very easy baskets, especially while on the court with Ponds. The posters mentioning the Mullin/Mitch shooting definitely have a point too. Everyone shoots as good or better than we expected. If only defense were that way.

Our Andre Iguodala

Yep, or to keep it more familiar, a taller Paris Horne without the jumper and with a handle (for a SF/SG).  It was crazy to me how many easy points we got when Paris was on the court, especially with Boothe. That will be a welcome addition to the team because I've never seen a group get less easy points than the last two years. It's hard to win games when you give up 15+ uncontested or lightly contested its per game and don't do the same or better yourself.

Why do you insist on comparing our future point guard to small forwards?    Justin Simon is a point guard.   Period. Stop. 
That's what he calls himself.  And that's what the staff refers to him as.    They intend to use him as the primary ball handler.   
Can't express it any clearer.    He will lead out team in assists and have the ball in his hands more than any other player.   

What are you some kind of Nazi? Don't tell me to "stop" having opinions -- especially when it is the correct opinion. Simon didn't log a single minute at PG at Arizona and they had one PG who was only a soph and not exactly a  world beater.  You expect him to unseat Lovett and Ponds now? Jesus Christ. Ponds is a future NBA point guard and both Lovett as Jackson-Cartwright have a fraction of his potential to run the point at the next level.

If you want to be foolish and think a 6'5 210 wing is a PG, go right ahead. Don't you dare tell others they don't have the right to an opinion on the matter, though.

The best comparison for Simon is Kris Dunn.   Except he can't shoot as well as Dunn, for now. 

Jesus Christ.

If you want to be foolish and think a 6'5 210 wing is a PG, go right ahead

He was a PG in high school according to CBS

"Last spring and summer, though, Justin Simon emerged as a potential top-tier prospect at the point guard position – and he followed that up with an impressive high school season to cement his standing as one of the  premier point guards  in the class."

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/breakdown-justin-simon-commits-to-arizona/

and Scout

"Coming out of high school, Simon, a 6-foot-5  lead guard , was ranked No. 27 overall, but Simon played just 7.5 minutes a game during his freshman season at Arizona, averaging 2.3 points and 1.2 rebounds per game."

and Chris Mullin seems to think he's a PG

“He’s an instinctive  playmaker with good court vision and he distributes the ball well . We are glad Justin chose St. John’s for the next chapter of his basketball career.”

Maybe he's morphed into a wing who's capable of playing the 4 but it's hardly foolish to think he's a PG.

I'd like to see development from Lovett as a passer this season. I think he will be the primary point guard in favor of Ponds and Simon. He appears to have all the tools to be an elite passer, just needs to be more careful with the ball, and perhaps become a bit more unselfish.

I hope we do not have unrealistic expectations for Simon. I admit I haven't seen a ton of him, but those expecting to see him play like a 5 star top 30 recruit from the get go here are probably going to be disappointed. I think he'll fill the vacant Ellison role nicely and most likely a lot better. 8-10ppg and 3-4 ast is what id expect.

So, since a few of you guys are fired up, I thought I'd see if I could make things even more interesting.

When LoVett was out, I thought Ponds made crisp passes and good decisions with the ball. Why isn't Ponds running the offense? The terms combo guard is thrown around often, but that's what he is. LoVett was sloppy at times, and he forced the action, and frankly, in regards to Simon all I know is what I've heard from former players and friends and that's that the kid can play. No one mentioned where he'd play. I guess we will have to wait and see.

So, since a few of you guys are fired up, I thought I'd see if I could make things even more interesting.

When LoVett was out, I thought Ponds made crisp passes and good decisions with the ball. Why isn't Ponds running the offense? The terms combo guard is thrown around often, but that's what he is. LoVett was sloppy at times, and he forced the action, and frankly, in regards to Simon all I know is what I've heard from former players and friends and that's that the kid can play. No one mentioned where he'd play. I guess we will have to wait and see.

Ponds is quite clearly the best at running the offense. His passes are delivered with  perfect touch, his vision is superb, and his basketball IQ and awareness are off the charts.  But he's really good at shooting and scoring the ball so that makes many posters write him off as a PG while Simon's lack of a shot bumps him from SG to PG. Go figure. Ponds is a future NBA PG.

With that written, Ponds plays better at the two than Lovett and it's in the best interest of the team for those two to play as much as possible. I expect Simon to be a huge addition and play the three.  When the matchup is favorable, I hope and expect him to bring the ball up, lead some offense, and take his man off the dribble.  In the modern college game, good teams have 2-3 guys that can lead an offense and attack the basket from various positions. Roosevelt Jones had the ball in  his hands quite a bit for Butler and few people labeled him a PG. I'm not sure why some posters are fighting so hard to force him to be a PG when we already have Ponds and Lovett, but they have a right to their opinion. Point-forward, I could live with that. Point guard and Kris Dunn comparisons, no way.

I really have to see how tight Simon's handle is before saying he is a PG. Many on here said Rysheed Jordan was a PG too and his handle was not crisp at all. He was definitely a better 2 guard.

I think LoVett is the best option at PG because of his elite quickness with the ball in his hands. There are very few PG's nationally with his speed and handle combo. The key to him is taking better care of the ball and finding open guys.

Ponds is more skilled overall then LoVett. Maybe mix in Ponds and LoVett at the 1 as well but I think LoVett should be the primary ballhandler.

The beauty of this years roster, w the exception of the 4 and 5', is we have quality depth, I would love Simon to play like a 5 star recruit, however, w .Ponds, Lovett and Bash , he doesn't have to. He might not even start.  Re ; Ponds, at 6  1 , I would be begging to play PG. It would make him more appealling  to the NBA.

I really have to see how tight Simon's handle is before saying he is a PG.

As far as PGs go, his handle is about as tight as a King's Landing whore. He's a SG that can't shoot. Some bump him down to PG because of that deficiency. I default those players to SF. I'd classify his handle as a plus for SG and even better for a SF. A few month's will put this to rest until he gets his first 6-7 assist game -- which he will at some point next season.

Quote from: Johnny23 on June 20, 2017, 10:10:31 AM

I really have to see how tight Simon's handle is before saying he is a PG.

As far as PGs go, his handle is about as tight as a King's Landing whore. He's a SG that can't shoot. Some bump him down to PG because of that deficiency. I default those players to SF. I'd classify his handle as a plus for SG and even better for a SF. A few month's will put this to rest until he gets his first 6-7 assist game -- which he will at some point next season.

  Based on that skillset, SF/Wing sounds about right I agree. If the handle is there, then it's all gravy. He's a big asset in terms of guarding those big, athletic guards on Nova, Xavier and the rest.

'When LoVett was out, I thought Ponds made crisp passes and good decisions with the ball. Why isn't Ponds running the offense?  but that's what he is. LoVett was sloppy at times, and he forced the action' 

Love it: 3.8 assists        2.6 turnovers

Mongaup: 3.1 assists    1.9 turnovers

Their assist/turnover ratios were virtually identical , with Marcus having more assists in less minutes per game, so I'm not sure why Ponds was a "much better passer" and Lovett was "sloppy at times".

Potential is great and all but these two were 1a and 1b stars for us in their freshmen campaigns. Love it shouldn't be considered to have taken a back seat to "the future Nba point" until he actually does.

Quote from: Poison on June 20, 2017, 09:02:06 AM

'When LoVett was out, I thought Ponds made crisp passes and good decisions with the ball. Why isn't Ponds running the offense?  but that's what he is. LoVett was sloppy at times, and he forced the action' 

Love it: 3.8 assists        2.6 turnovers

Mongaup: 3.1 assists    1.9 turnovers

Their assist/turnover ratios were virtually identical , with Marcus having more assists in less minutes per game, so I'm not sure why Ponds was a "much better passer" and Lovett was "sloppy at times".

Potential is great and all but these two were 1a and 1b stars for us in their freshmen campaigns. Love it shouldn't be considered to have taken a back seat to "the future Nba point" until he actually does.

Please explain how sloppiness can be reflected in stats? That is an eye test.  Ponds' turnovers were mostly a result of him being nonchalant. Lovett's turnovers were almost always a result of being out of control or delivering passes that couldn't be handled. In truth, many more turnovers could have been attributed to Lovett instead of his desired recipients. When Ponds dishes it, he almost always leaves his man in a position to finish and with a ball that is easily controlled. Lovett will fire a laser laser second to a guy like Yakwe.

Quote from: Poison on June 20, 2017, 09:02:06 AM

'When LoVett was out, I thought Ponds made crisp passes and good decisions with the ball. Why isn't Ponds running the offense?  but that's what he is. LoVett was sloppy at times, and he forced the action' 

Love it: 3.8 assists        2.6 turnovers

Mongaup: 3.1 assists    1.9 turnovers

Their assist/turnover ratios were virtually identical , with Marcus having more assists in less minutes per game, so I'm not sure why Ponds was a "much better passer" and Lovett was "sloppy at times".

Potential is great and all but these two were 1a and 1b stars for us in their freshmen campaigns. Love it shouldn't be considered to have taken a back seat to "the future Nba point" until he actually does.

LoVett had Ponds to finish plays. That is the only reason why he averaged more assists than Ponds did. In the games he started at the point, Ponds had Mussini Ahmed, Ellison, Owens and Williams. Not an apples to apples comparison.