KenPom Preseason Rankings

The KenPom preseason rankings are out and his computer is very high on the Big East as a whole. He has us as the 51st best team in the country but 8th in the Big East. He has the Big East as the 2nd best conference behind the Big 12. Some more interesting stuff:

- Villanova #1 in the country, Kentucky #2, Arizona #3, Wichita #4
- Projects us to have the 54th best offensive efficiency in the country and 46th best defensive efficiency. 12th in the country in pace
- Projects us to go 17-12 overall (not counting the two TBD Advocare games) and 8-10 in conference
- Has us as the favorite to win all of our non conference games (again not counting the two TBD Advocare games)


KenPom's Preseason BE Rankings:

1. Villaova
2. Providence
3. Xavier
4. Seton Hall
5. Butler
6. Creighton
7. Marquette
8. St. John's
9. Georgetown
10. DePaul


Rankings of other locals:
Hofstra #120, Rutgers #125, Iona #134

Comes down to our coaching staff. McDermott will out coach us in his sleep. Wojo is better too, remains to be seen if the new HC at Butler is as good as the two previous.

Comes down to our coaching staff. McDermott will out coach us in his sleep. Wojo is better too, remains to be seen if the new HC at Butler is as good as the two previous.

Our coaching staff has already put themselves in really tough spot. They are 1 big man injury away from wasting this season. Our success will be determined by health followed by coaching. The talent is there for us to compete.

Agree w/ Poison on the risk.

Still surprised we didn't take the chance on that big 7'2 Serbian JUCO even if he sucked up a ship next season too. No risk this year and like having Amar for 1 more year after he leaves.

Agree w/ Poison on the risk.

Still surprised we didn't take the chance on that big 7'2 Serbian JUCO even if he sucked up a ship next season too. No risk this year and like having Amar for 1 more year after he leaves.

The irresponsibility is frustrating. The staff gets the credit if the team wins, but if they don't, the fan base has every right to be mad.

Disagree with Braintrust's opinion that Wojo will outcoach Mullin. St. John's finishes ahead of Marquette this season and is no worse than 6th in BE. This team is considerably more talented than last year's and results will prove it.

Disagree with Braintrust's opinion that Wojo will outcoach Mullin. St. John's finishes ahead of Marquette this season and is no worse than 6th in BE. This team is considerably more talented than last year's and results will prove it.

How do you know that this team is significantly more talented than last year? Maybe some dead weight transferred out, but we also may have lost some important pieces for this season and future seasons. One or two transfers is one thing, we lost 6 guys and added 3. One is a freshman.

Quote from: RedStormNC on October 22, 2017, 08:48:07 PM

Agree w/ Poison on the risk.

Still surprised we didn't take the chance on that big 7'2 Serbian JUCO even if he sucked up a ship next season too. No risk this year and like having Amar for 1 more year after he leaves.

The irresponsibility is frustrating. The staff gets the credit if the team wins, but if they don't, the fan base has every right to be mad.

This years team is as talented as it gets at St. John’s . No one should get a pass this year.

The KenPom methodology  is pretty useless preseason.

Poison, every team in college ball goes through player changes year to year, but you have to make up your mind whether we lost "deadwood" or "important pieces" from last year's team.  Seems to me, you killed Ellison the entire year and found plenty of fault with Mussini's inability to defend BE guards.

I'll take Simon, Clark, and Trimble over Ellison, Williams, and Mussini and call this team significantly improved.  In them, we have physicality and athleticism that we clearly lacked last year.  Sima was gone before BE play began and looked completely lost in the games he did play.  Are we really going to argue that Freudenberg was about to morph into Dirk Nowitzki based on what he showed us last year?

When they start the games, we'll all know for sure, but I see this year's team as significantly improved -- and if the coaching staff decided to pass on a 7 foot stiff who couldn't make an impact on a bad JC team, I think we should trust their judgment.  If they'd brought him here, you'd be the first guy screaming that he didn't belong in the Big East.

Poison, every team in college ball goes through player changes year to year, but you have to make up your mind whether we lost "deadwood" or "important pieces" from last year's team.  Seems to me, you killed Ellison the entire year and found plenty of fault with Mussini's inability to defend BE guards.

I'll take Simon, Clark, and Trimble over Ellison, Williams, and Mussini and call this team significantly improved.  In them, we have physicality and athleticism that we clearly lacked last year.  Sima was gone before BE play began and looked completely lost in the games he did play.  Are we really going to argue that Freudenberg was about to morph into Dirk Nowitzki based on what he showed us last year?

When they start the games, we'll all know for sure, but I see this year's team as significantly improved -- and if the coaching staff decided to pass on a 7 foot stiff who couldn't make an impact on a bad JC team, I think we should trust their judgment.  If they'd brought him here, you'd be the first guy screaming that he didn't belong in the Big East.

I can't make up my mind because the answer is both. We got rid of dead weight, like Mussini, but we also lost key parts of our team in Williams, Ellison and a player who I think could have eventually become a key part of our future in Freudenberg.

Continuity and depth are nothing to sneeze at, and yes, I did rip Mussini pretty often, but Ellison and Williams were two guys that I saw potential in and I thought I was pretty about that. Ellison struggled in several aspects of the game but don't you think that after two years of struggling he might be ready to take a step forward? Isn't that what a good program does? Develops talent?

I think you are being quick to dismiss Freudenberg. No one in their right mind expected Dirk, but why are we recruiting a kid from Germany if after one season we're giving up on him? He played like a lot of freshman do. Lost. But our staff should be evaluating and developing more talent than they have been. And when it comes to adding a 7 foot stuff, I'm not thrilled about it, but the staff needed to take their medicine. If they blew it with every big man available, which i find hard to believe, then yeah, suck it up and take the Judi. You need bodies even if just because players will be in foul trouble. Their careless approach to recruiting really pisses me off especially since Mullin was brought in because Lavin stopped working hard on the recruiting trail. Yet here we are 3 years later, with half as many top 100 recruits and the staff has already stop working hard.

This year will tell us what we need to know about where this program is headed.

LoVett, Ponds, Owens and Ahmed all need to take a big step forward, or we're looking at the CBI.

The KenPom methodology  is pretty useless preseason.

Agree. I don't think they recognize new incoming players. Only players who are gone

Quote from: Lycidas on October 22, 2017, 10:31:04 PM

Poison, every team in college ball goes through player changes year to year, but you have to make up your mind whether we lost "deadwood" or "important pieces" from last year's team.  Seems to me, you killed Ellison the entire year and found plenty of fault with Mussini's inability to defend BE guards.

I'll take Simon, Clark, and Trimble over Ellison, Williams, and Mussini and call this team significantly improved.  In them, we have physicality and athleticism that we clearly lacked last year.  Sima was gone before BE play began and looked completely lost in the games he did play.  Are we really going to argue that Freudenberg was about to morph into Dirk Nowitzki based on what he showed us last year?

When they start the games, we'll all know for sure, but I see this year's team as significantly improved -- and if the coaching staff decided to pass on a 7 foot stiff who couldn't make an impact on a bad JC team, I think we should trust their judgment.  If they'd brought him here, you'd be the first guy screaming that he didn't belong in the Big East.

I can't make up my mind because the answer is both. We got rid of dead weight, like Mussini, but we also lost key parts of our team in Williams, Ellison and a player who I think could have eventually become a key part of our future in Freudenberg.

Continuity and depth are nothing to sneeze at, and yes, I did rip Mussini pretty often, but Ellison and Williams were two guys that I saw potential in and I thought I was pretty about that. Ellison struggled in several aspects of the game but don't you think that after two years of struggling he might be ready to take a step forward? Isn't that what a good program does? Develops talent?

I think you are being quick to dismiss Freudenberg. No one in their right mind expected Dirk, but why are we recruiting a kid from Germany if after one season we're giving up on him? He played like a lot of freshman do. Lost. But our staff should be evaluating and developing more talent than they have been. And when it comes to adding a 7 foot stuff, I'm not thrilled about it, but the staff needed to take their medicine. If they blew it with every big man available, which i find hard to believe, then yeah, suck it up and take the Judi. You need bodies even if just because players will be in foul trouble. Their careless approach to recruiting really pisses me off especially since Mullin was brought in because Lavin stopped working hard on the recruiting trail. Yet here we are 3 years later, with half as many top 100 recruits and the staff has already stop working hard.

This year will tell us what we need to know about where this program is headed.

LoVett, Ponds, Owens and Ahmed all need to take a big step forward, or we're looking at the CBI.

Pretty much this. I have my doubts about the coaching staff's improvement but we'll know in a few short weeks.

Disagree with Braintrust's opinion that Wojo will outcoach Mullin. St. John's finishes ahead of Marquette this season and is no worse than 6th in BE. This team is considerably more talented than last year's and results will prove it.

Hope you are right. I was wavering whether Wojo is a better coach, but our staff hasn't proven anything except for a couple of very well coached games against Syracuse.

Our staff may really be trying to recruit, but it will only get harder unless we start wining. After these past 2 years would you send your son to St. John’s or providence?

All of the Europeans and max sucked. None of them should have been recruited. You can’t have soft players who don’t play defense on a big east roster. What if we used some o those scholarships on some of the players Iona had?  Or a local player who may be lacking something (height) but really wants to play for St. John’s and is tough. I can’t imagine David Cain or Tyrone grant being highly recruited .
The bottom of the roster is important. Our starters need to be pushed in practice. And depth is important. Happy the German is elsewhere. Just like I was happy when max left.
I don’t know much about Trimble. He is only 3 stars, but he is supposed to be tough. Maybe he turns into a player. I have no idea, but I don’t expect him to be worthless like Marco or another project.

Our staff may really be trying to recruit, but it will only get harder unless we start wining. After these past 2 years would you send your son to St. John’s or providence?

All of the Europeans and max sucked. None of them should have been recruited. You can’t have soft players who don’t play defense on a big east roster. What if we used some o those scholarships on some of the players Iona had?  Or a local player who may be lacking something (height) but really wants to play for St. John’s and is tough. I can’t imagine David Cain or Tyrone grant being highly recruited .
The bottom of the roster is important. Our starters need to be pushed in practice. And depth is important. Happy the German is elsewhere. Just like I was happy when max left.
I don’t know much about Trimble. He is only 3 stars, but he is supposed to be tough. Maybe he turns into a player. I have no idea, but I don’t expect him to be worthless like Marco or another project.

Tony, how can you be happy the German left? He was 6'9 and he barely even played. If every program jettisoned their freshman because they weren't ready to play the first year, we'd have no seasoned senior stars. Why do you think mid majors have made such progress over the years? They keep players in their program. Some freshman ride the pine. That should be ok. Ty Grant should have ridden the pine but the team was so bad they had no choice but to play him, and play him against the likes of John Wallace. And of course it didn't go well. But fast forward 3 years, and Grant could have held his own.

BTW, David Cain was no sleeper. He was a top city recruit.

If KenPom is right...and it is more often than not...we're looking at years in the toilet.  What major talent is coming to a school that's basically a mid major?  I can't see any.

The German barley played because he couldn’t. He may have developed offensively. Still he would be really slow. He isn’t strong. He isn’t tough. Who is he going to guard? Slow, weak, and soft are not the traits I look for. Those stretch 4’s that always kill us have value. Richard and max are not those guys. The tough small guards that always give us trouble (mike Nardi) have value. Marco and mussini are not those guys.
Tyrone grant not as good as 1st round pick John Wallace. Agreed. But he earned his scholarship. He was limited. But he played a role on some decent and some good teams.
That artest team would have really been great if grant was a backup and we had a real center. Heath orvis, Amar and the rest don’t belong in the big east. These kind of players have held us back over the years.
David Cain, kind of surprised he was a big recruit. He wasn’t big and didn’t shoot so well.

Just want to note that we didn't cut or "jettison" Freudenberg or Mussini. Both left to play professionally in their native countries, moves that were bound to happen once it became clear to them that they were never going to play in the NBA. It was highly unlikely that either of them would have ever made it to their senior seasons in a SJ uniform, so we were never going to get to see the maximum version of two highly limited players.

As for Ellison, he left when it became apparent to him that Simon was going to severely eat into his minutes. Better players force lesser players to consider their options elsewhere. It happens all the time, and it's good for our program. Better players win more games and make a coach look a hell of a lot smarter.

Quote from: Lycidas on October 22, 2017, 10:31:04 PM

Poison, every team in college ball goes through player changes year to year, but you have to make up your mind whether we lost "deadwood" or "important pieces" from last year's team.  Seems to me, you killed Ellison the entire year and found plenty of fault with Mussini's inability to defend BE guards.

I'll take Simon, Clark, and Trimble over Ellison, Williams, and Mussini and call this team significantly improved.  In them, we have physicality and athleticism that we clearly lacked last year.  Sima was gone before BE play began and looked completely lost in the games he did play.  Are we really going to argue that Freudenberg was about to morph into Dirk Nowitzki based on what he showed us last year?

When they start the games, we'll all know for sure, but I see this year's team as significantly improved -- and if the coaching staff decided to pass on a 7 foot stiff who couldn't make an impact on a bad JC team, I think we should trust their judgment.  If they'd brought him here, you'd be the first guy screaming that he didn't belong in the Big East.

I can't make up my mind because the answer is both. We got rid of dead weight, like Mussini, but we also lost key parts of our team in Williams, Ellison and a player who I think could have eventually become a key part of our future in Freudenberg.

Continuity and depth are nothing to sneeze at, and yes, I did rip Mussini pretty often, but Ellison and Williams were two guys that I saw potential in and I thought I was pretty about that. Ellison struggled in several aspects of the game but don't you think that after two years of struggling he might be ready to take a step forward? Isn't that what a good program does? Develops talent?

I think you are being quick to dismiss Freudenberg. No one in their right mind expected Dirk, but why are we recruiting a kid from Germany if after one season we're giving up on him? He played like a lot of freshman do. Lost. But our staff should be evaluating and developing more talent than they have been. And when it comes to adding a 7 foot stuff, I'm not thrilled about it, but the staff needed to take their medicine. If they blew it with every big man available, which i find hard to believe, then yeah, suck it up and take the Judi. You need bodies even if just because players will be in foul trouble. Their careless approach to recruiting really pisses me off especially since Mullin was brought in because Lavin stopped working hard on the recruiting trail. Yet here we are 3 years later, with half as many top 100 recruits and the staff has already stop working hard.

This year will tell us what we need to know about where this program is headed.

LoVett, Ponds, Owens and Ahmed all need to take a big step forward, or we're looking at the CBI.

Dead weight doesn't hit 56 threes at a 43% clip.

LP are already so far forward that it would be virtually impossible for them to take a big step forward.  If they move forward at all we have an Allen Iverson on our hands.