Game 7: UCF

18-21 wins. Other than last game we have been fun to watch.
If you want to get on coaching staff for the horrible lack of depth up front, have at it but I just do not understand the sky is falling posts?

18-21 wins. Other than last game we have been fun to watch.
If you want to get on coaching staff for the horrible lack of depth up front, have at it but I just do not understand the sky is falling posts?

Agreed... but I understand them. Because they are coming from the closet pukon/nova fans crawling like maggots on this board.

U would have to be a complete nice person not to see the potential of this team.

Quote from: we are sju on November 27, 2017, 02:08:31 PM

18-21 wins. Other than last game we have been fun to watch.
If you want to get on coaching staff for the horrible lack of depth up front, have at it but I just do not understand the sky is falling posts?

Agreed... but I understand them. Because they are coming from the closet pukon/nova fans crawling like maggots on this board.

U would have to be a complete nice person not to see the potential of this team.

To be fair to all the "nice persons" out there are you talking about potential for this year or for the years going forward??

Quote from: Marillac on November 27, 2017, 10:52:15 AM

Quote from: Foad on November 27, 2017, 09:45:40 AM

Quote from: Marillac on November 27, 2017, 07:40:12 AM

Mizzou has five freshmen, two sophomores, and it's starting backcourt is comprised of first year transfers (Juco and grad). Their lone senior is a transfer who is playing his second season. And they have a new coach and staff to boot.

Wut? MU has three seniors and six juniors. Of their first six players in minutes played four are upper classmen averaging 107 minutes between them and the other two are freshmen, one of those 6'10 and one 6'11", averaging 38 minutes. St John's first five includes three second year players and two first year players who account for 150 minutes per game.  Talk about choosing your own facts, good grief.

Mizzou has two seniors on scholarship and both are transfers. They have ten players who have averaged 10.3 mpg or more and have played all seven games:

Kassius Robertson - first year with Mizzou; grad transfer from the MAAC
Kevin Puryear - junior
Jordan Barnett - senior transfer playing in his second year with Mizzou
Jontay Porter - true freshman who turned 18 last week and re-classified from 2019 class
Jeremiah Tilmon - true freshman
Jordan Geist - first year with Mizzou; JUCO transfer
Cullen Vanleer - junior
Terrence Philllips - junior
Blake Harris - true freshman
Reed Nikko - sophomore


Ahmed - Senior
Alibegovic - Senior
Owens - Fourth year junior
Clark - Fourth year junior
Yakwe - Junior
Lovett- Third year soph
Simon - Third year soph
Ponds - True soph
Trimble - True freshman

I don't see how we are considered young every year and how that's a valid excuse compared to a team like Mizzou who is clearly overcoming more adjustments with a brand new staff, six new players, and their best player (a freshman) ruled out for the season the day before the tournament. Next year we will likely be younger when we replace Ahmed, Alibegovic, and Lovett with at least three freshmen and two redshirt sophs. 

In the first place, no



In the second, why do you carefully parse Missouri's players to demonstrate their alleged youth and inexperience - "senior transfer playing in his second year with Mizzou", " true freshman who turned 18 last week and re-classified from 2019 class" - and about SJU players you say "Clark and Owens are in their fourth years in college" and "Lovett and Simon are in their third years", whereas Clark and Simon have played a combined 10 games for SJU and Owens and Lovett have played a year. You're cherry picking facts and skewing the analysis.

Cuonzo Martic's been coaching for 10 years, no doubt he's a better coach than Mullin. I wouldn't argue with that. That SJU isn't a young team - meaning that first team has played together for a month - I don't see how that's arguable.

(1) Brett Rau is a walkon that has played in six games in two years. Might as well count Jay Camus as a junior for us then too.

(2) Both teams have plenty of upperclassmen but Mizzous best player is a freshman and a week ago their best two players were freshmen. Our best player is a Soph.

(3) I added the time in college because it is an advantage. Surely you would agree that an extra year of practicing with a team and getting to know the team/school/players represent an advantage over a true member that class.

(4) The hardest thing to overcome with young teams is true freshmen and that is not something we really have to worry about.

(5) I'm not exactly sure why you want to argue this. It's one thing to excuse losing when you have six new freshmen and a new JUCO transfer like we had in the 2011 class. It's another to make that excuse when more than half your roster is composed of upperclassmen and you have one one frshman that plays slot minutes.

Quote from: Mullin77 on November 27, 2017, 02:12:15 PM

Quote from: we are sju on November 27, 2017, 02:08:31 PM

18-21 wins. Other than last game we have been fun to watch.
If you want to get on coaching staff for the horrible lack of depth up front, have at it but I just do not understand the sky is falling posts?

Agreed... but I understand them. Because they are coming from the closet pukon/nova fans crawling like maggots on this board.

U would have to be a complete nice person not to see the potential of this team.

To be fair to all the "nice persons" out there are you talking about potential for this year or for the years going forward??

After Brian Mahoney's first year did anyone see the potential for us to suck like we did?

After Jarvis first 2 seasons and with Omar Cook coming in did anyone foresee what was going to happen?

After making the tourney and grabbing all of those top 100 kids did anyone think Lavin era would eventually be considered a failure? For the record I don't see it that way but most on here do.

After terrible recruiting , worse coaching and terrible post game comments did anyone think Norm Roberts would be considered the absolute worst coach in the history of sports? Trick question. You ALL should have seen that coming but for some reason a lot of you chose not to. Now some of those same Norm apologists are jumping ship on the face of the program after 2 years and 7 games when the team has shown improvement every year. Very baffling!

Any who, who cares about the future? We are ST John's . At some point in the near future our team will suck. This team doesn't. Enjoy it and stop bitching!!

Quote from: colelatshaw2010 on November 27, 2017, 02:26:47 PM

Quote from: Mullin77 on November 27, 2017, 02:12:15 PM

Quote from: we are sju on November 27, 2017, 02:08:31 PM

18-21 wins. Other than last game we have been fun to watch.
If you want to get on coaching staff for the horrible lack of depth up front, have at it but I just do not understand the sky is falling posts?

Agreed... but I understand them. Because they are coming from the closet pukon/nova fans crawling like maggots on this board.

U would have to be a complete nice person not to see the potential of this team.

To be fair to all the "nice persons" out there are you talking about potential for this year or for the years going forward??

After Brian Mahoney's first year did anyone see the potential for us to suck like we did?

After Jarvis first 2 seasons and with Omar Cook coming in did anyone foresee what was going to happen?

After making the tourney and grabbing all of those top 100 kids did anyone think Lavin era would eventually be considered a failure? For the record I don't see it that way but most on here do.

After terrible recruiting , worse coaching and terrible post game comments did anyone think Norm Roberts would be considered the absolute worst coach in the history of sports? Trick question. You ALL should have seen that coming but for some reason a lot of you chose not to. Now some of those same Norm apologists are jumping ship on the face of the program after 2 years and 7 games when the team has shown improvement every year. Very baffling!

Any who, who cares about the future? We are ST John's . At some point in the near future our team will suck. This team doesn't. Enjoy it and stop bitching!!

As a youngster I'll excuse myself from anything pre norm. We don't know yet if this team will suck or not suck.  Many are concerned about similar characteristics like lack of desire to box out, lack of ability to defend the 3 and poor shot selection that has existed in the last few previous atrocious years.  Also,  looking forward is the entire lifeblood of college sports.  Recruitimg exists because the future of a program is always the number one concern.

Looking back to advocare and  the ucf game I'm very perturbed as to why boxing out isn't being made a bigger point of emphasis by our coaches. If we're going to start an extremely small lineup bashir Ahmed needs to be working his butt off boxing out taller players instead of just standing under the rim trying to out jump everyone.

(5) I'm not exactly sure why you want to argue this. It's one thing to excuse losing when you have six new freshmen and a new JUCO transfer like we had in the 2011 class. It's another to make that excuse when more than half your roster is composed of upperclassmen and you have one one frshman that plays slot minutes.

In the first place, we're not losing, so I'm not making excuses. To the contrary we're 6-1, and you're explaining why we should be winning better, or more or something, I'm not even sure. In the second place this is in fact a young team, I don't care how you parse Missouri's roster: the two best players are five games into their sophomore years, Justin Simon and Marvin Clark are first year players who've played 10 games between them in two years. Ahmed is a senior in name only. There's all of two players who have been in the program for more than two years and one of them is Alibewithz and he stinks and the other one's been playing basketball for five years. Have a sandwich for god sake, you're hallucinating.

After terrible recruiting , worse coaching and terrible post game comments did anyone think Norm Roberts would be considered the absolute worst coach in the history of sports? Trick question.

Mike Jarvis #4

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1711021-ranking-the-10-most-disastrous-coaching-tenures-in-college-basketball-history


Brian Mahoney #24, Mike Jarvis #33

https://www.ranker.com/list/worst-college-basketball-coaches-of-all-time/ranker-ncaa-basketball


Brian Mahoney #9

https://athlonsports.com/college-basketball/college-basketballs-worst-coaching-tenures-1984-85



Stop the hate

Quote from: Marillac on November 27, 2017, 02:31:32 PM

(5) I'm not exactly sure why you want to argue this. It's one thing to excuse losing when you have six new freshmen and a new JUCO transfer like we had in the 2011 class. It's another to make that excuse when more than half your roster is composed of upperclassmen and you have one one frshman that plays slot minutes.

In the first place, we're not losing, so I'm not making excuses. To the contrary we're 6-1, and you're explaining why we should be winning better, or more or something, I'm not even sure. In the second place this is in fact a young team, I don't care how you parse Missouri's roster: the two best players are five games into their sophomore years, Justin Simon and Marvin Clark are first year players who've played 10 games between them in two years. Ahmed is a senior in name only. There's all of two players who have been in the program for more than two years and one of them is Alibewithz and he stinks and the other one's been playing basketball for five years. Have a sandwich for god sake, you're hallucinating.

You jumped in on the side of that lunatic (my best guess is he's the medium t-shirt kid) who used us being young as an excuse for our poor play. We are about as old as we'll ever be and about as old as you'd ever want a properly balanced team to be. We've already seen what losing nine seniors does to a program.

We may not be losing, but we played poorly against bad teams. UCF was without its starting backcourt and one of those kids is 1st all-conference and the best player they've had in a decade. They missed wide open shot after wide open shot. Other than UCF, the defense was actually pretty good and that is a good sign.

I'm more upset with what this showing means for the rest of the year. Three neutral  wins with WV being one in Orlando and we were an NCAA team. That's likely gone now unless they can knockoff ASU or Duke. That's how razor thin the margin of error is this year with 8-10 wins in conference play almost a lock.

Quote from: we are sju on November 27, 2017, 02:55:02 PM

After terrible recruiting , worse coaching and terrible post game comments did anyone think Norm Roberts would be considered the absolute worst coach in the history of sports? Trick question.

Mike Jarvis #4

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1711021-ranking-the-10-most-disastrous-coaching-tenures-in-college-basketball-history


Brian Mahoney #24, Mike Jarvis #33

https://www.ranker.com/list/worst-college-basketball-coaches-of-all-time/ranker-ncaa-basketball


Brian Mahoney #9

https://athlonsports.com/college-basketball/college-basketballs-worst-coaching-tenures-1984-85



Stop the hate

Jarvis gave me two fun years and Hatten.

Mahoney gave me one fun year and recruited the best HS kid in the country to come to ST John's

Norm gave me terrible quotes and Eugene Lawrence. I want a recount!!

I'm more upset with what this showing means for the rest of the year. Three neutral  wins with WV being one in Orlando and we were an NCAA team. That's likely gone now unless they can knockoff ASU or Duke. That's how razor thin the margin of error is this year with 8-10 wins in conference play almost a lock.

Dude. It's November.

18-21 wins. Other than last game we have been fun to watch.
If you want to get on coaching staff for the horrible lack of depth up front, have at it but I just do not understand the sky is falling posts?

20 is being pretty optimistic but yeah, is this team real bad?  No it's not.  But is this team real good?  No it's probably not.  It's the 3rd best team of the past 10 years, but 6 of the last 10 years were amongst the 15 worst years of all time.   It's poorly constructed but at least it has the best 1-2 scoring PG punch in the nation, right?  I think they'll be fun to watch, will flirt with 500 in conference and if they can get by with 3 or less OOC losses  they could be a bubble team.  So yeah, the sky isn't falling but it's not kittens and rainbows either, depending on your expectations.

And re experience, by today's standards, this roster is of pretty average experience and above average age.  Now they need to get 10 games together under their belt and we'll have a better idea of how much above mediocre they might be once they're entirely comfortable playing together and barring any injury or other problems.

Granted we figured Porter would play but I don't think many of us had us at 7-0 at this point.

What matters:

6-1

- 85 points allowed per 100 possession is 12th best in the country
- Top 10 nationally in blocks (45; #4th), steals (65; #9th) and turnovers forced (137; 7th)

What matters:

6-1

- 85 points allowed per 100 possession is 12th best in the country
- Top 10 nationally in blocks (45; #4th), steals (65; #9th) and turnovers forced (137; 7th)

And statistically Ponds shooting and Clark all around should be better

Quote from: Foad on November 27, 2017, 03:38:38 PM

Quote from: Marillac on November 27, 2017, 02:31:32 PM

(5) I'm not exactly sure why you want to argue this. It's one thing to excuse losing when you have six new freshmen and a new JUCO transfer like we had in the 2011 class. It's another to make that excuse when more than half your roster is composed of upperclassmen and you have one one frshman that plays slot minutes.

In the first place, we're not losing, so I'm not making excuses. To the contrary we're 6-1, and you're explaining why we should be winning better, or more or something, I'm not even sure. In the second place this is in fact a young team, I don't care how you parse Missouri's roster: the two best players are five games into their sophomore years, Justin Simon and Marvin Clark are first year players who've played 10 games between them in two years. Ahmed is a senior in name only. There's all of two players who have been in the program for more than two years and one of them is Alibewithz and he stinks and the other one's been playing basketball for five years. Have a sandwich for god sake, you're hallucinating.

You jumped in on the side of that lunatic (my best guess is he's the medium t-shirt kid) who used us being young as an excuse for our poor play. We are about as old as we'll ever be and about as old as you'd ever want a properly balanced team to be. We already seen what losing nine seniors does to a program.

We may not be losing, but we played poorly against bad teams. UCF was without its starting backcourt and one of those kids is 1st all-conference and the best player they've had in a decade. They missed wide open shot after wide open shot. Other than UCF, the defense was actually pretty good and that is a good sign.

I'm more upset with what this showing means for the rest of the year. Three neutral  wins with WV being one in Orlando and we were an NCAA team. That's likely gone now unless they can knockoff ASU or Duke. That's how razor thin the margin of error is this year with 8-10 wins in conference play almost a lock.

I don't see how one November win plus or minus makes the difference between the NCAA and NIT and anyway this is a bubble team if all goes well and an NIT team otherwise. Nine or ten wins going into the BE is a best case scenario, especially considering that last year this time they were 2-5 with losses to Old Dominion and Delaware State. The fact is that they're a big man short of respectable and a good big man short of being ranked. The point being that they're short. On the bright side they're fun to watch and they'll be competitive in most games most of the year. Considering where they were two years ago the NIT is a step forward. I'm not dancing around the house, but I'm not hiding on the couch either. I'm cautiously pessimistic.

Norm gave me terrible quotes and Eugene Lawrence

And Hardy and Brownlee and Kennedy and Horne. Not mention Larry Wright.

Quote from: Foad on November 27, 2017, 03:38:38 PM

Quote from: Marillac on November 27, 2017, 02:31:32 PM

(5) I'm not exactly sure why you want to argue this. It's one thing to excuse losing when you have six new freshmen and a new JUCO transfer like we had in the 2011 class. It's another to make that excuse when more than half your roster is composed of upperclassmen and you have one one frshman that plays slot minutes.

In the first place, we're not losing, so I'm not making excuses. To the contrary we're 6-1, and you're explaining why we should be winning better, or more or something, I'm not even sure. In the second place this is in fact a young team, I don't care how you parse Missouri's roster: the two best players are five games into their sophomore years, Justin Simon and Marvin Clark are first year players who've played 10 games between them in two years. Ahmed is a senior in name only. There's all of two players who have been in the program for more than two years and one of them is Alibewithz and he stinks and the other one's been playing basketball for five years. Have a sandwich for god sake, you're hallucinating.

You jumped in on the side of that lunatic (my best guess is he's the medium t-shirt kid) 

I'm confident in saying it's not him (he's on here, though).  I believe it's "Old Red" from the Big East Board days.

Quote from: we are sju on November 27, 2017, 04:00:02 PM

Norm gave me terrible quotes and Eugene Lawrence

And Hardy and Brownlee and Kennedy and Horne. Not mention Larry Wright.

Just for the record, Norm is the reason I can't kill any other ST John's coach after him.  I am eternally grateful to Lavin for washing away the Norm stink.  You know when you get sick or something is bothering you and even if it is only for a couple days, it seems like you can't even remember what it felt like to feel good? That is how Norm made me feel about ST John's basketball.

Quote from: Marillac on November 27, 2017, 03:59:32 PM

Quote from: Foad on November 27, 2017, 03:38:38 PM

Quote from: Marillac on November 27, 2017, 02:31:32 PM

(5) I'm not exactly sure why you want to argue this. It's one thing to excuse losing when you have six new freshmen and a new JUCO transfer like we had in the 2011 class. It's another to make that excuse when more than half your roster is composed of upperclassmen and you have one one frshman that plays slot minutes.

In the first place, we're not losing, so I'm not making excuses. To the contrary we're 6-1, and you're explaining why we should be winning better, or more or something, I'm not even sure. In the second place this is in fact a young team, I don't care how you parse Missouri's roster: the two best players are five games into their sophomore years, Justin Simon and Marvin Clark are first year players who've played 10 games between them in two years. Ahmed is a senior in name only. There's all of two players who have been in the program for more than two years and one of them is Alibewithz and he stinks and the other one's been playing basketball for five years. Have a sandwich for god sake, you're hallucinating.

You jumped in on the side of that lunatic (my best guess is he's the medium t-shirt kid) 

I'm confident in saying it's not him (he's on here, though).  I believe it's "Old Red" from the Big East Board days.

No way