ASU Game Dec 8 at Staples Center

You can make a case that Arizona St should  be no. 1 in the country right now.  I don't think they are the best team but the most deserving team right now I think is ASU.

some writers agree -- they got 5 first place votes in the AP poll and are ranked 5th.  Missouri is 3rd in RPI and ASU is 8th.  Five games remain against Nova (5th RPI, first in AP), Duke (2nd in RPI, 4th in AP) and Xavier (10th in AP, 17th RPI).  Right now, St. john's is 18th in RPI, which is third in the big east.  Seton Hall, Butler, Creighton, and Providence are all top 50 in RPI right now.  In other words, St. John's has 13 potential top 50 RPI wins remaining on its schedule.  If they beat Iona,  St. Joe's, Georgetown, and DePaul (Marquette is borderline top 100 right now, but may take a beating in conference play), they'll have no bad losses  and be in great shape to make the NCAA tournament.   

Quote from: Pete88 on December 10, 2017, 09:03:25 PM

Quote from: Celtics11 on December 10, 2017, 08:22:53 PM

Quote from: Pete88 on December 10, 2017, 07:38:28 PM

Quote from: goredmen on December 10, 2017, 07:29:12 PM

Quote from: Dan on December 10, 2017, 07:15:12 PM

They were Lovett away from potentially coming out of LA with a win vs. Arizona State and they're for real, beating Kansas as well.  If Lovett comes back and they take care of business vs. Iona and St. Joe's, you have to be happy with 10-2 going into conference play.  If the defense remains like this, they can hang in there against strong competition, even if they aren't deep enough to be at that level.  I'm not one for moral victories but I am seeing consistent year to year improvement in Mullin's teams.

I disagree. I don't think we can be happy with being 10-2 but also don't think we should hate it. We've played 2 teams that will be in the mix for a tournament berth come March and lost both. Assuming we beat Iona and St Joes and lose to Duke that puts us at 10-3 total in non-conference. Then assume we go 9-9 in BE play which I think is fair and we are 19-12 heading into the BET. That probably has us on the wrong side of the bubble needing to win a couple BET games

You can be realistic though.  We've won the games we were supposed to win (vast difference from last year), have won some that we certainly would've lost last year and lost a few that we played well enough to win.  Expectations have to be based on something, this team at this point is meeting or exceeding expectations.  Let's see what happens going forward.

Why even compare us to last year when we stunk. Of course we are better this year we have more good players and everyone expected and knew we would be better than last year. We started at rock bottom so anyone would have us improving in year 2 and 3. We have played two good teams and lost both. we have plenty of games coming up against good teams let's just hope we can win our fare share of them. As others say we shall see. We need some wins over over Nova, Xavier and the Hall to have truly arrived.

If you don't compare us to last year, what are you comparing this team to? 
Reading these posts its amazing how many expected this team to be undefeated before conference play... 

I don't think anybody here expected this team to be undefeated going into conference play, but this 10-2 start is on par with what this team is, which is a fringe tournament team. Again, if the 10-2 was with a win over Missouri and loss to West VA instead of loss to Mizzou and W over UCF that's a very different 10-2

So what you're saying is that this team is exactly who you thought they were, but that's just not good enough? 

this team is a consistent offense away from being pretty dangerous IMO.

With both LP starting together in the backcourt - we'll have a consistent offense.

Lovett's the more efficient scorer and hopefully Ponds' shooting slump ends and he starts climbing towards last year's numbers.

Quote from: fordham96 on December 10, 2017, 09:17:51 PM

You can make a case that Arizona St should  be no. 1 in the country right now.  I don't think they are the best team but the most deserving team right now I think is ASU.

some writers agree -- they got 5 first place votes in the AP poll and are ranked 5th.  Missouri is 3rd in RPI and ASU is 8th.  Five games remain against Nova (5th RPI, first in AP), Duke (2nd in RPI, 4th in AP) and Xavier (10th in AP, 17th RPI).  Right now, St. john's is 18th in RPI, which is third in the big east.  Seton Hall, Butler, Creighton, and Providence are all top 50 in RPI right now.  In other words, St. John's has 13 potential top 50 RPI wins remaining on its schedule.  If they beat Iona,  St. Joe's, Georgetown, and DePaul (Marquette is borderline top 100 right now, but may take a beating in conference play), they'll have no bad losses  and be in great shape to make the NCAA tournament.   

Yup pretty funny.  We have people who constantly whine about SJU's schedule. Yet not only do they have a strong national schedule RIGHT now, wait until they play Duke in February.  And I am just counting the non-conference.

On the flip side, Georgetown's schedule is downright criminal.  I mean I have no idea what Ewing and co. are trying to prove.

Quote from: apesNapes on December 11, 2017, 01:53:53 PM

Quote from: fordham96 on December 10, 2017, 09:17:51 PM

You can make a case that Arizona St should  be no. 1 in the country right now.  I don't think they are the best team but the most deserving team right now I think is ASU.

some writers agree -- they got 5 first place votes in the AP poll and are ranked 5th.  Missouri is 3rd in RPI and ASU is 8th.  Five games remain against Nova (5th RPI, first in AP), Duke (2nd in RPI, 4th in AP) and Xavier (10th in AP, 17th RPI).  Right now, St. john's is 18th in RPI, which is third in the big east.  Seton Hall, Butler, Creighton, and Providence are all top 50 in RPI right now.  In other words, St. John's has 13 potential top 50 RPI wins remaining on its schedule.  If they beat Iona,  St. Joe's, Georgetown, and DePaul (Marquette is borderline top 100 right now, but may take a beating in conference play), they'll have no bad losses  and be in great shape to make the NCAA tournament.   

Yup pretty funny.  We have people who constantly whine about SJU's schedule. Yet not only do they have a strong national schedule RIGHT now, wait until they play Duke in February.  And I am just counting the non-conference.

On the flip side, Georgetown's schedule is downright criminal.  I mean I have no idea what Ewing and co. are trying to prove.

Our schedule is t the problem. We haven't beaten anyone near our level. That's the problem. It's not necessarily bad, but it's not great either.

Quote from: goredmen on December 10, 2017, 09:23:31 PM

Quote from: Pete88 on December 10, 2017, 09:03:25 PM

Quote from: Celtics11 on December 10, 2017, 08:22:53 PM

Quote from: Pete88 on December 10, 2017, 07:38:28 PM

Quote from: goredmen on December 10, 2017, 07:29:12 PM

Quote from: Dan on December 10, 2017, 07:15:12 PM

They were Lovett away from potentially coming out of LA with a win vs. Arizona State and they're for real, beating Kansas as well.  If Lovett comes back and they take care of business vs. Iona and St. Joe's, you have to be happy with 10-2 going into conference play.  If the defense remains like this, they can hang in there against strong competition, even if they aren't deep enough to be at that level.  I'm not one for moral victories but I am seeing consistent year to year improvement in Mullin's teams.

I disagree. I don't think we can be happy with being 10-2 but also don't think we should hate it. We've played 2 teams that will be in the mix for a tournament berth come March and lost both. Assuming we beat Iona and St Joes and lose to Duke that puts us at 10-3 total in non-conference. Then assume we go 9-9 in BE play which I think is fair and we are 19-12 heading into the BET. That probably has us on the wrong side of the bubble needing to win a couple BET games

You can be realistic though.  We've won the games we were supposed to win (vast difference from last year), have won some that we certainly would've lost last year and lost a few that we played well enough to win.  Expectations have to be based on something, this team at this point is meeting or exceeding expectations.  Let's see what happens going forward.

Why even compare us to last year when we stunk. Of course we are better this year we have more good players and everyone expected and knew we would be better than last year. We started at rock bottom so anyone would have us improving in year 2 and 3. We have played two good teams and lost both. we have plenty of games coming up against good teams let's just hope we can win our fare share of them. As others say we shall see. We need some wins over over Nova, Xavier and the Hall to have truly arrived.

If you don't compare us to last year, what are you comparing this team to? 
Reading these posts its amazing how many expected this team to be undefeated before conference play... 

I don't think anybody here expected this team to be undefeated going into conference play, but this 10-2 start is on par with what this team is, which is a fringe tournament team. Again, if the 10-2 was with a win over Missouri and loss to West VA instead of loss to Mizzou and W over UCF that's a very different 10-2

So what you're saying is that this team is exactly who you thought they were, but that's just not good enough? 

No, I'm saying this team is exactly who I thought they were, so they aren't exceeding expectations by any stretch just yet

Quote from: austour on December 11, 2017, 02:04:55 PM

Quote from: goredmen on December 10, 2017, 09:23:31 PM

Quote from: Pete88 on December 10, 2017, 09:03:25 PM

Quote from: Celtics11 on December 10, 2017, 08:22:53 PM

Quote from: Pete88 on December 10, 2017, 07:38:28 PM

Quote from: goredmen on December 10, 2017, 07:29:12 PM

Quote from: Dan on December 10, 2017, 07:15:12 PM

They were Lovett away from potentially coming out of LA with a win vs. Arizona State and they're for real, beating Kansas as well.  If Lovett comes back and they take care of business vs. Iona and St. Joe's, you have to be happy with 10-2 going into conference play.  If the defense remains like this, they can hang in there against strong competition, even if they aren't deep enough to be at that level.  I'm not one for moral victories but I am seeing consistent year to year improvement in Mullin's teams.

I disagree. I don't think we can be happy with being 10-2 but also don't think we should hate it. We've played 2 teams that will be in the mix for a tournament berth come March and lost both. Assuming we beat Iona and St Joes and lose to Duke that puts us at 10-3 total in non-conference. Then assume we go 9-9 in BE play which I think is fair and we are 19-12 heading into the BET. That probably has us on the wrong side of the bubble needing to win a couple BET games

You can be realistic though.  We've won the games we were supposed to win (vast difference from last year), have won some that we certainly would've lost last year and lost a few that we played well enough to win.  Expectations have to be based on something, this team at this point is meeting or exceeding expectations.  Let's see what happens going forward.

Why even compare us to last year when we stunk. Of course we are better this year we have more good players and everyone expected and knew we would be better than last year. We started at rock bottom so anyone would have us improving in year 2 and 3. We have played two good teams and lost both. we have plenty of games coming up against good teams let's just hope we can win our fare share of them. As others say we shall see. We need some wins over over Nova, Xavier and the Hall to have truly arrived.

If you don't compare us to last year, what are you comparing this team to? 
Reading these posts its amazing how many expected this team to be undefeated before conference play... 

I don't think anybody here expected this team to be undefeated going into conference play, but this 10-2 start is on par with what this team is, which is a fringe tournament team. Again, if the 10-2 was with a win over Missouri and loss to West VA instead of loss to Mizzou and W over UCF that's a very different 10-2

So what you're saying is that this team is exactly who you thought they were, but that's just not good enough? 

No, I'm saying this team is exactly who I thought they were, so they aren't exceeding expectations by any stretch just yet

We can’t evaluate who this team is without LoVett. Without him, they came pretty close to beating one of the best teams in the country, which is better than Xavier did against them.

Quote from: goredmen on December 11, 2017, 03:32:30 PM

Quote from: austour on December 11, 2017, 02:04:55 PM

Quote from: goredmen on December 10, 2017, 09:23:31 PM

Quote from: Pete88 on December 10, 2017, 09:03:25 PM

Quote from: Celtics11 on December 10, 2017, 08:22:53 PM

Quote from: Pete88 on December 10, 2017, 07:38:28 PM

Quote from: goredmen on December 10, 2017, 07:29:12 PM

Quote from: Dan on December 10, 2017, 07:15:12 PM

They were Lovett away from potentially coming out of LA with a win vs. Arizona State and they're for real, beating Kansas as well.  If Lovett comes back and they take care of business vs. Iona and St. Joe's, you have to be happy with 10-2 going into conference play.  If the defense remains like this, they can hang in there against strong competition, even if they aren't deep enough to be at that level.  I'm not one for moral victories but I am seeing consistent year to year improvement in Mullin's teams.

I disagree. I don't think we can be happy with being 10-2 but also don't think we should hate it. We've played 2 teams that will be in the mix for a tournament berth come March and lost both. Assuming we beat Iona and St Joes and lose to Duke that puts us at 10-3 total in non-conference. Then assume we go 9-9 in BE play which I think is fair and we are 19-12 heading into the BET. That probably has us on the wrong side of the bubble needing to win a couple BET games

You can be realistic though.  We've won the games we were supposed to win (vast difference from last year), have won some that we certainly would've lost last year and lost a few that we played well enough to win.  Expectations have to be based on something, this team at this point is meeting or exceeding expectations.  Let's see what happens going forward.

Why even compare us to last year when we stunk. Of course we are better this year we have more good players and everyone expected and knew we would be better than last year. We started at rock bottom so anyone would have us improving in year 2 and 3. We have played two good teams and lost both. we have plenty of games coming up against good teams let's just hope we can win our fare share of them. As others say we shall see. We need some wins over over Nova, Xavier and the Hall to have truly arrived.

If you don't compare us to last year, what are you comparing this team to? 
Reading these posts its amazing how many expected this team to be undefeated before conference play... 

I don't think anybody here expected this team to be undefeated going into conference play, but this 10-2 start is on par with what this team is, which is a fringe tournament team. Again, if the 10-2 was with a win over Missouri and loss to West VA instead of loss to Mizzou and W over UCF that's a very different 10-2

So what you're saying is that this team is exactly who you thought they were, but that's just not good enough? 

No, I'm saying this team is exactly who I thought they were, so they aren't exceeding expectations by any stretch just yet

We can’t evaluate who this team is without LoVett. Without him, they came pretty close to beating one of the best teams in the country, which is better than Xavier did against them.

A bunch of people on here for some inexplicable reason do not like Lovett. For some reason Lovett being good takes away from Ponds? Very strange. Almost like one pretty girl not liking another pretty girl except it is not the pretty girls who are haters but  fans of one of the pretty girls.

I love Lovett. Having said that 1) he needs to smile once in a awhile 2) he needs a few assists every game 3) he needs to stop cheating on defense and when he does he needs to rotate (usually to the corner)....4) he needs to get healthy.

I love Lovett. Having said that 1) he needs to smile once in a awhile 2) he needs a few assists every game 3) he needs to stop cheating on defense and when he does he needs to rotate (usually to the corner)....4) he needs to get healthy.

Why does he have to smile?? Strange thing to say

Quote from: hnk on December 11, 2017, 04:42:39 PM

I love Lovett. Having said that 1) he needs to smile once in a awhile 2) he needs a few assists every game 3) he needs to stop cheating on defense and when he does he needs to rotate (usually to the corner)....4) he needs to get healthy.

Why does he have to smile?? Strange thing to say

Re#1:  When we're winning, he seems to be the guy having the most fun out there, which I like, BTW.  Towards the end of the Oregon St. game, he was smiling and clapping.  Looked like he was having a good time, to me.

He doesn't have to at all....I just think the fans would like him more if he did and that question is what I was responding to.

Quote from: goredmen on December 10, 2017, 09:23:31 PM

Quote from: Pete88 on December 10, 2017, 09:03:25 PM

Quote from: Celtics11 on December 10, 2017, 08:22:53 PM

Quote from: Pete88 on December 10, 2017, 07:38:28 PM

Quote from: goredmen on December 10, 2017, 07:29:12 PM

Quote from: Dan on December 10, 2017, 07:15:12 PM

They were Lovett away from potentially coming out of LA with a win vs. Arizona State and they're for real, beating Kansas as well.  If Lovett comes back and they take care of business vs. Iona and St. Joe's, you have to be happy with 10-2 going into conference play.  If the defense remains like this, they can hang in there against strong competition, even if they aren't deep enough to be at that level.  I'm not one for moral victories but I am seeing consistent year to year improvement in Mullin's teams.

I disagree. I don't think we can be happy with being 10-2 but also don't think we should hate it. We've played 2 teams that will be in the mix for a tournament berth come March and lost both. Assuming we beat Iona and St Joes and lose to Duke that puts us at 10-3 total in non-conference. Then assume we go 9-9 in BE play which I think is fair and we are 19-12 heading into the BET. That probably has us on the wrong side of the bubble needing to win a couple BET games

You can be realistic though.  We've won the games we were supposed to win (vast difference from last year), have won some that we certainly would've lost last year and lost a few that we played well enough to win.  Expectations have to be based on something, this team at this point is meeting or exceeding expectations.  Let's see what happens going forward.

Why even compare us to last year when we stunk. Of course we are better this year we have more good players and everyone expected and knew we would be better than last year. We started at rock bottom so anyone would have us improving in year 2 and 3. We have played two good teams and lost both. we have plenty of games coming up against good teams let's just hope we can win our fare share of them. As others say we shall see. We need some wins over over Nova, Xavier and the Hall to have truly arrived.

If you don't compare us to last year, what are you comparing this team to? 
Reading these posts its amazing how many expected this team to be undefeated before conference play... 

I don't think anybody here expected this team to be undefeated going into conference play, but this 10-2 start is on par with what this team is, which is a fringe tournament team. Again, if the 10-2 was with a win over Missouri and loss to West VA instead of loss to Mizzou and W over UCF that's a very different 10-2

So what you're saying is that this team is exactly who you thought they were, but that's just not good enough? 

I think he's saying that 10 and 2 is good but 10 and 2 would have been better. Because you are what your record might have been had you played teams other than those you played.

Quote from: hnk on December 11, 2017, 04:42:39 PM

I love Lovett. Having said that 1) he needs to smile once in a awhile 2) he needs a few assists every game 3) he needs to stop cheating on defense and when he does he needs to rotate (usually to the corner)....4) he needs to get healthy.

Why does he have to smile?? Strange thing to say

He needs an infectious grin like Chris Obekpa.

but this 10-2 start is on par with what this team is, which is a fringe tournament team. Again, if the 10-2 was with a win over Missouri and loss to West VA instead of loss to Mizzou and W over UCF that's a very different 10-2

Did I miss a couple of games?  I thought we were 8 and 2?

Please tell me we it's not that we have a halfway decent team for the 1st time in 3 years and now the fans are "penciling in" wins against good Maac and A10 teams?

Foad, you just think it's boring when we hold other teams to 65 points.  I think Lovett should smile when he helps do it.

I don't need smiles.  I want killers like D'Lo Harrison.  His demeanor as time went on was perfect.  He'd rip your heart out and then the smile would come out.  I was t Lovett and Ponds doing the same.  Lovett definitely needs to be more of an assist guy like he was in HS because his passing ability is exceptional when isn't trying to be the primary scorer.  He certainly can be the primary scorer, but at his height, and with his ability, he needs to worship the pass a bit more.  It's his bread and butter and he's gotten shot-happy.  I think he's an amazing player... hopefully he learns that balance.  He's still a much better assist guy than Ponds when he utilizes that..

Quote from: fordham96 on December 11, 2017, 02:29:11 PM

Quote from: apesNapes on December 11, 2017, 01:53:53 PM

Quote from: fordham96 on December 10, 2017, 09:17:51 PM

You can make a case that Arizona St should  be no. 1 in the country right now.  I don't think they are the best team but the most deserving team right now I think is ASU.

some writers agree -- they got 5 first place votes in the AP poll and are ranked 5th.  Missouri is 3rd in RPI and ASU is 8th.  Five games remain against Nova (5th RPI, first in AP), Duke (2nd in RPI, 4th in AP) and Xavier (10th in AP, 17th RPI).  Right now, St. john's is 18th in RPI, which is third in the big east.  Seton Hall, Butler, Creighton, and Providence are all top 50 in RPI right now.  In other words, St. John's has 13 potential top 50 RPI wins remaining on its schedule.  If they beat Iona,  St. Joe's, Georgetown, and DePaul (Marquette is borderline top 100 right now, but may take a beating in conference play), they'll have no bad losses  and be in great shape to make the NCAA tournament.   

Yup pretty funny.  We have people who constantly whine about SJU's schedule. Yet not only do they have a strong national schedule RIGHT now, wait until they play Duke in February.  And I am just counting the non-conference.

On the flip side, Georgetown's schedule is downright criminal.  I mean I have no idea what Ewing and co. are trying to prove.

Our schedule is t the problem. We haven't beaten anyone near our level. That's the problem. It's not necessarily bad, but it's not great either.

Plenty of people before the season thought it was the problem.

It all depends on what you consider SJU level.  I would say Nebraska and UCF are probably at SJU level, maybe a step below.  Either way your standard leaves only 1 or 2 opportunities for wins like that in the pre-conference schedule.

Quote from: goredmen on December 10, 2017, 08:34:48 PM

Quote from: rdstr25 on December 10, 2017, 08:22:29 PM

I agree with the guys saying that the 2 loses are not ideal cause those teams are NCAA caliber teams. However, win our next two and there would be 0 bad loses, that looks good in the eyes of the committee.  Also team played 6 games away from home and could be 4-2- something the committee  takes very seriously. The big east is loaded, we are going to get our fair share of quality games, so right now, I’m not concerned with not beating mizz or asu. Both those games we were underdogs, expected to lose,  but the eye test says we competed with both.

I believe we go 11-7 in conference. The key will be how we start over first 6,  cause  the last 6 of season, we could potentially go 5-1.   Go 4-5 on road and 7-2 at home, very doable.

11-7 in conference is very optimistic IMO

We are talking a 4 game swing year over year to get to 11-7.  Last year we lost(away) to Gtown, SHU, Nova, Butler, Creighton, Xavier, and Marq.  This year, I expect to beat two of those teams on road.  At home we lost to Nova, Xavier, Creighton, and Providence.  This year, I expect to win 2 of those.

I believe we're better then a 500 9-9 record, also don't see us going 12-6
Thinking we'll go 10-8 or 11-7 in conf

Foad, you just think it's boring when we hold other teams to 65 points.  I think Lovett should smile when he helps do it.

I'm having a difficult time. I like the players. I like the staff. I like the style of play and the results more or less. Everything's not lollipops and roses but other than you guys there's nothing to actively hate. I'm really losing my edge.