Game 9: Grand Canyon

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goredmen

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Re: Game 9: Grand Canyon
« Reply #300 on: December 06, 2017, 01:48:10 PM »
Ahmed drives me crazy. I am now actually surprised when shot goes in or his drives don't lead to a turnover or charge.

And yet he averages the fewest turnovers per game of the five starters.

Actually his turnover rate is significantly higher than Lovett's and Ponds' but significantly lower than Simon's and Clark's

Actually, what I said was actually correct.



Actually, what I said is correct as well.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQYi7xcUEAAuyaQ.jpg:large

Any "per game" stats are pretty useless considering some guys play way more minutes than other guys and some have the the ball in their hands way more than others

Ahmed has the ball in his hands more than Simon. He's not the same passer, but he is tasked with creating shots off the bounce more than anyone not named Ponds.

Yes, the link I posted accounts for how often a player's action ends a possession. Ahmed's TO Rate is significantly lower than Simon's (lower is better) but it is significantly higher than Lovett's and Ponds'. He averages slightly less turnovers per game than Lovett and Ponds but Lovett and Ponds play way more minutes and have the ball in their hands way more.

Both Ponds and Lovett are in the top 500 of all division 1 players in fewest turnovers per usage. Simon and Clark's TO rate is almost double their numbers. Ahmed is in the middle.

Re: Game 9: Grand Canyon
« Reply #301 on: December 06, 2017, 02:29:18 PM »
Ahmed drives me crazy. I am now actually surprised when shot goes in or his drives don't lead to a turnover or charge.

And yet he averages the fewest turnovers per game of the five starters.

Actually his turnover rate is significantly higher than Lovett's and Ponds' but significantly lower than Simon's and Clark's

Actually, what I said was actually correct.



Actually, what I said is correct as well.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQYi7xcUEAAuyaQ.jpg:large

Any "per game" stats are pretty useless considering some guys play way more minutes than other guys and some have the the ball in their hands way more than others

Ahmed has the ball in his hands more than Simon. He's not the same passer, but he is tasked with creating shots off the bounce more than anyone not named Ponds.

At the end of games my preference Would be Owens, Clark, Simon, Lovett, Ponds.
I am not a fan of Ahmed's game. I guess someone has to annoy you he is it for me .

Foad

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Re: Game 9: Grand Canyon
« Reply #302 on: December 06, 2017, 02:36:04 PM »
Ahmed drives me crazy. I am now actually surprised when shot goes in or his drives don't lead to a turnover or charge.

And yet he averages the fewest turnovers per game of the five starters.

Actually his turnover rate is significantly higher than Lovett's and Ponds' but significantly lower than Simon's and Clark's

Actually, what I said was actually correct.



Actually, what I said is correct as well.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQYi7xcUEAAuyaQ.jpg:large

Any "per game" stats are pretty useless considering some guys play way more minutes than other guys and some have the the ball in their hands way more than others

What you said did not refute what I said, which makes it either non responsive or a non sequitur, take your pick. And per game stats are quite relevant, because you can't turn the ball over while you're on the bench. If you do X Y times in Z minutes that's how many time you do things. How many times you might do X in Q minutes is a silly metric where Q minutes don't exist. 

Jason Camus averages .5 steals in 2 minutes per game, so if he played 40 minutes he'd average 10 steals per game? If so he should start.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 02:43:03 PM by Foad »

Foad

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Re: Game 9: Grand Canyon
« Reply #303 on: December 06, 2017, 02:38:04 PM »
I think the other poster is referring to TO's per minute in which case his stats are correct.  I'm sure there's some analytic that could calculate TO's per time of possession in which case Ahmed would likely be leading the team given that the guys with higher TO/game averages handle the ball the lion's share of the time. 

I'm aware what the other poster was referring to, having learned to read in third grade. And I didn't say anything about his stats one way or the other. I said that what I said was correct, which it was.

Johnny23

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Re: Game 9: Grand Canyon
« Reply #304 on: December 06, 2017, 03:08:45 PM »
Ponds is about 6'1 and Lovett is 5'11. Not hard to see.

Re: Game 9: Grand Canyon
« Reply #305 on: December 06, 2017, 04:13:03 PM »
I think the other poster is referring to TO's per minute in which case his stats are correct.  I'm sure there's some analytic that could calculate TO's per time of possession in which case Ahmed would likely be leading the team given that the guys with higher TO/game averages handle the ball the lion's share of the time. 

I'm aware what the other poster was referring to, having learned to read in third grade. And I didn't say anything about his stats one way or the other. I said that what I said was correct, which it was.

No one said it wasn't. 

TONYD3

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Re: Game 9: Grand Canyon
« Reply #306 on: December 06, 2017, 04:22:54 PM »
I think the other poster is referring to TO's per minute in which case his stats are correct.  I'm sure there's some analytic that could calculate TO's per time of possession in which case Ahmed would likely be leading the team given that the guys with higher TO/game averages handle the ball the lion's share of the time. 

I'm aware what the other poster was referring to, having learned to read in third grade. And I didn't say anything about his stats one way or the other. I said that what I said was correct, which it was.
What foady didn’t consider, which is sample size and level of play. Bashir Ahmed and everyone has played 9 games this season- 1 against Malloy and 4 more lower division 1 talent. His stats through 9 games are not accurate. They tell us nothing. Only a rube would think other wise.
You can tell something about a baseball players numbers, because they play so many game s vs similar competition.
Bernie Williams stats meant something. But His numbers when he was 27 were different then when he was 35 though. His spring training numbers vs single talent told you nothing about the player he was.
How many turnovers Bashir Ahmed had vs central Connecticut state mean nothing. How good he was vs a much lesser athlete will not translate into big east play. However if you watched last nights game, bashir was a problem.
Sample size and the foad- a few years ago he argued that Felix B was a good shooter. He used is free throw shooter as an example. One year he shot 80 percent. What he neglected to say that Felix was 4/5 on the season
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 04:23:37 PM by TONYD3 »

Foad

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Re: Game 9: Grand Canyon
« Reply #307 on: December 06, 2017, 05:03:13 PM »
I think the other poster is referring to TO's per minute in which case his stats are correct.  I'm sure there's some analytic that could calculate TO's per time of possession in which case Ahmed would likely be leading the team given that the guys with higher TO/game averages handle the ball the lion's share of the time. 

I'm aware what the other poster was referring to, having learned to read in third grade. And I didn't say anything about his stats one way or the other. I said that what I said was correct, which it was.

No one said it wasn't. 

Actually the other guy actually said what I actually said was actually factually incorrect. Whereas actually what I actually said was actually factually actually correct.

Foad

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Re: Game 9: Grand Canyon
« Reply #308 on: December 06, 2017, 05:12:23 PM »
Bashir Ahmed and everyone has played 9 games this season- 1 against Malloy and 4 more lower division 1 talent. His stats through 9 games are not accurate. They tell us nothing.

They do though tell us how to spell Molloy. Also they tell us how he has performed against the players against whom he has played. No doubt as a gym teacher you know how he would have performed against teams that he has not played. That's why I did not major in gym: I care little about the future.

Re: Game 9: Grand Canyon
« Reply #309 on: December 06, 2017, 05:23:41 PM »
Kenpom calculates turnover rate by TO/Possesion and he has Ponds - 12.8, Lovett - 12.4, Ahmed - 18.7, Simon- 24.8, and Clark- 23.3.

Re: Game 9: Grand Canyon
« Reply #310 on: December 06, 2017, 05:34:30 PM »
We need Marvin Clark to get his act together.

Poison

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Re: Game 9: Grand Canyon
« Reply #311 on: December 06, 2017, 06:37:12 PM »
We need Marvin Clark to get his act together.

Clark is a better version of Mussini. He makes his free throws and he hits three pointers, and he does it against teams other than Wagner. He can’t play defense without fouling right now, but I think he can how do. He’s has a ways to go, but he’s not the problem right now.

Re: Game 9: Grand Canyon
« Reply #312 on: December 06, 2017, 07:29:24 PM »
We need Marvin Clark to get his act together.

Clark is a better version of Mussini. He makes his free throws and he hits three pointers, and he does it against teams other than Wagner. He can’t play defense without fouling right now, but I think he can how do. He’s has a ways to go, but he’s not the problem right now.

Couldn't disagree more with your first sentence.

Couldn't agree more with your last.

*wipes ketchup from his eyes* - I guess Heinz sight isn’t 20/20.

Re: Game 9: Grand Canyon
« Reply #313 on: December 06, 2017, 08:13:57 PM »

QuanMan

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Re: Game 9: Grand Canyon
« Reply #314 on: December 06, 2017, 08:16:25 PM »
We need Marvin Clark to get his act together.

Start Kassoum again for consistent defense and blocked shots early, it would help the offense break out into fast breaks earlier each game and would instantly put the ball in the shooters hands (Shamorie/Marcus/Bash).

Bring in Marv with Tariq off the bench fresh with no foul trouble and completely reset with another tone.

This would help combat opponent's gameplan against us. This can atleast be experimented, as should Tariq in the starting lineup.

CM played Bryan a ton last night, he's clearly still tinkering with lineups, getting a feel for this team and testing out his substation patterns.
Section 3
Section 116

Re: Game 9: Grand Canyon
« Reply #315 on: December 06, 2017, 09:10:01 PM »
Hope (and expect) he develops into a kid who makes more of an impact on the boards (offensive and defensive glass), as well as provides some interior scoring.  Right now, we have no one who has showed the ability to catch the ball in the post and score occasionally on his man.

We need Marvin Clark to get his act together.

Clark is a better version of Mussini. He makes his free throws and he hits three pointers, and he does it against teams other than Wagner. He can’t play defense without fouling right now, but I think he can how do. He’s has a ways to go, but he’s not the problem right now.

ras

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Re: Game 9: Grand Canyon
« Reply #316 on: December 06, 2017, 10:06:50 PM »
Clark is much better than Mussini, who was a one dimensional player. He’s valuable to us. Defends and shoots well. But as a 4 th year junior from MSU, coupled w his strength, I can’t understand all the fouling. We also need him to rebound more. Nevertheless, a good get for the program.

Poison

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Re: Game 9: Grand Canyon
« Reply #317 on: December 06, 2017, 10:22:42 PM »
Clark is much better than Mussini, who was a one dimensional player. He’s valuable to us. Defends and shoots well. But as a 4 th year junior from MSU, coupled w his strength, I can’t understand all the fouling. We also need him to rebound more. Nevertheless, a good get for the program.

Mussini (2 year average) 9.5 ppg, 2.1 rebounds, 1.5 assists
Clark 9.4 ppg, 3.9 rebounds, 0.7 assists

He’s a more efficient, and significantly larger Mussini. When he wants to rebound, I’m all for it, but he hasn’t so far.

MCNPA

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Re: Game 9: Grand Canyon
« Reply #318 on: December 06, 2017, 10:55:54 PM »
Clark is much better than Mussini, who was a one dimensional player. He’s valuable to us. Defends and shoots well. But as a 4 th year junior from MSU, coupled w his strength, I can’t understand all the fouling. We also need him to rebound more. Nevertheless, a good get for the program.

Mussini (2 year average) 9.5 ppg, 2.1 rebounds, 1.5 assists
Clark 9.4 ppg, 3.9 rebounds, 0.7 assists

He’s a more efficient, and significantly larger Mussini. When he wants to rebound, I’m all for it, but he hasn’t so far.

You’re not wrong about Clark.  He needs to hit the glass.  He’s a guy that’s could be a Caron Butler type. Not a direct comparison as butler was more of a wing and had a decent nba career as well.   Caron Butler averaged 7.6 rebounds per game and he was even more of a SF than PF unlike Clark.  I wanna see a bit more Anthony Glover out of Clark.  With all that said, the kid has plenty of time to get better and people are pretty harsh on him early.  It’s only his second full season play D1 ball and he’s only at the beginning of the season.  Clark has been excellent with good numbers.  He needs to play a bit smarter on defense without fouling, and take more pride at scoring the ball in the paint.    Mullin should bring Rodman in every year to give a seminar on rebounding.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 11:34:56 PM by MCNPA »

ras

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Re: Game 9: Grand Canyon
« Reply #319 on: December 06, 2017, 11:26:04 PM »
Clark is much better than Mussini, who was a one dimensional player. He’s valuable to us. Defends and shoots well. But as a 4 th year junior from MSU, coupled w his strength, I can’t understand all the fouling. We also need him to rebound more. Nevertheless, a good get for the program.

Mussini (2 year average) 9.5 ppg, 2.1 rebounds, 1.5 assists
Clark 9.4 ppg, 3.9 rebounds, 0.7 assists

He’s a more efficient, and significantly larger Mussini. When he wants to rebound, I’m all for it, but he hasn’t so far.
Clark is much better than Mussini, who was a one dimensional player. He’s valuable to us. Defends and shoots well. But as a 4 th year junior from MSU, coupled w his strength, I can’t understand all the fouling. We also need him to rebound more. Nevertheless, a good get for the program.

Mussini (2 year average) 9.5 ppg, 2.1 rebounds, 1.5 assists
Clark 9.4 ppg, 3.9 rebounds, 0.7 assists

He’s a more efficient, and significantly larger Mussini. When he wants to rebound, I’m all for it, but he hasn’t so far.

You’re not wrong about Clark.  He needs to hit the glass.  He’s a guy that’s could be a Caron Butler type.  Caron Butler averaged 7.6 rebounds per game and he was even more of a SF than PF unlike Clark.  I wanna see a bit more Anthony Glover out of Clark.  With all that said, the kid has plenty of time to get better and people are pretty harsh on him early.  It’s only his second full season play D1 ball and he’s only at the beginning of the season.  Mullin should bring Rodman in every year to give a seminar on rebounding.
Clark is much better than Mussini, who was a one dimensional player. He’s valuable to us. Defends and shoots well. But as a 4 th year junior from MSU, coupled w his strength, I can’t understand all the fouling. We also need him to rebound more. Nevertheless, a good get for the program.

Mussini (2 year average) 9.5 ppg, 2.1 rebounds, 1.5 assists
Clark 9.4 ppg, 3.9 rebounds, 0.7 assists

He’s a more efficient, and significantly larger Mussini. When he wants to rebound, I’m all for it, but he hasn’t so far.

You’re not wrong about Clark.  He needs to hit the glass.  He’s a guy that’s could be a Caron Butler type.  Caron Butler averaged 7.6 rebounds per game and he was even more of a SF than PF unlike Clark.  I wanna see a bit more Anthony Glover out of Clark.  With all that said, the kid has plenty of time to get better and people are pretty harsh on him early.  It’s only his second full season play D1 ball and he’s only at the beginning of the season.  Mullin should bring Rodman in every year to give a seminar on rebounding.
I thought Clark is a jr. making this his 3rd season plus a redshirt year. Plus he had 2 years of tutelage from Izzo at Michigan State. I don’t think harsh is the right word. I think people were expecting more in the areas of rebounding, inside game and fouling less. He should be a seasoned veteran by now.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 11:32:16 PM by ras »