Trust the Process

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Re: Trust the Process
« Reply #180 on: January 07, 2018, 05:45:14 PM »
There are absolutely coaches who could get this team on the tourney. You remind me of friends I had in high school when senior year we used to play tackle football and the guys thought they were tougher than the players on the high school football team and wanted to challenge them. Had to tell my buddies they would kill us because of how organized they would be. We go into games at a disadvantage because of coaching simple as that. Best thing Mullin could do for us is continue to have a staff recruit at a high level and then turn the reins over to a much more competent basketball coach.

Ok then what coach is ST John's University going to bring in that would get 5 BE quality players to the tourney. Don't bother answering because answer is no one. Again the fact that we only have 5 players is on Mullin and his little asst that everyone loves. And yes there are better coaches, but a 5 seed? Lavin? That is laughable.

Whether, it be a 5 seed or lower, or with Lavin or another coach....  There are coaches who can get this team to the NCAA Tournament or, at the least, have 'em on the bubble.

Mike Jarvis went 12-4 (25-8 overall) in the Big East, and won the conference totournament with essentially a 6-man rotation and no one over 6'8" in the lineup (Erick Barkley also missed 5 games during the season, which practically limited it a 5-man roster).

Barkley, Bootsy and Postell  are way better than Ponds, Simon and Ahmed.

Maybe, so.  But, it still was a short rotation.  That was the argument. 

Basically, the current short rotation has sufficient talent, but they have care blanche to do whatever on the offensive end and it can, at times, resemble a fire drill when teams have or group running around scrambling with sound ball movement on the defensive end. 

Some of y'all sound like a few Gamecock fans I know.  The SEC East is straight up trash, outside of Georgia.  But, some Gamecock fans believe it is good football with teams just beating up on one another in the East.  I know the difference between sports "cannibalism" and seeing a shitty product.

Do they have enough talent without LoVett?

Borderline with, absolutely not w/o.
I am sorry but I have said this before this season. Putting all your eggs on transfers is flawed and kind of lazy IMO.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 05:46:56 PM by we are sju »

Re: Trust the Process
« Reply #181 on: January 07, 2018, 05:48:17 PM »
There are absolutely coaches who could get this team on the tourney. You remind me of friends I had in high school when senior year we used to play tackle football and the guys thought they were tougher than the players on the high school football team and wanted to challenge them. Had to tell my buddies they would kill us because of how organized they would be. We go into games at a disadvantage because of coaching simple as that. Best thing Mullin could do for us is continue to have a staff recruit at a high level and then turn the reins over to a much more competent basketball coach.

Ok then what coach is ST John's University going to bring in that would get 5 BE quality players to the tourney. Don't bother answering because answer is no one. Again the fact that we only have 5 players is on Mullin and his little asst that everyone loves. And yes there are better coaches, but a 5 seed? Lavin? That is laughable.

Whether, it be a 5 seed or lower, or with Lavin or another coach....  There are coaches who can get this team to the NCAA Tournament or, at the least, have 'em on the bubble.

Mike Jarvis went 12-4 (25-8 overall) in the Big East, and won the conference totournament with essentially a 6-man rotation and no one over 6'8" in the lineup (Erick Barkley also missed 5 games during the season, which practically limited it a 5-man roster).

Barkley, Bootsy and Postell  are way better than Ponds, Simon and Ahmed.

Maybe, so.  But, it still was a short rotation.  That was the argument. 

Basically, the current short rotation has sufficient talent, but they have care blanche to do whatever on the offensive end and it can, at times, resemble a fire drill when teams have or group running around scrambling with sound ball movement on the defensive end. 

Some of y'all sound like a few Gamecock fans I know.  The SEC East is straight up trash, outside of Georgia.  But, some Gamecock fans believe it is good football with teams just beating up on one another in the East.  I know the difference between sports "cannibalism" and seeing a shitty product.

Do they have enough talent without LoVett?

Putting all your eggs on transfers is flawed and kind of lazy IMO.

We agree here.

Re: Trust the Process
« Reply #182 on: January 07, 2018, 05:49:40 PM »
There are absolutely coaches who could get this team on the tourney. You remind me of friends I had in high school when senior year we used to play tackle football and the guys thought they were tougher than the players on the high school football team and wanted to challenge them. Had to tell my buddies they would kill us because of how organized they would be. We go into games at a disadvantage because of coaching simple as that. Best thing Mullin could do for us is continue to have a staff recruit at a high level and then turn the reins over to a much more competent basketball coach.

Ok then what coach is ST John's University going to bring in that would get 5 BE quality players to the tourney. Don't bother answering because answer is no one. Again the fact that we only have 5 players is on Mullin and his little asst that everyone loves. And yes there are better coaches, but a 5 seed? Lavin? That is laughable.

Whether, it be a 5 seed or lower, or with Lavin or another coach....  There are coaches who can get this team to the NCAA Tournament or, at the least, have 'em on the bubble.

Mike Jarvis went 12-4 (25-8 overall) in the Big East, and won the conference totournament with essentially a 6-man rotation and no one over 6'8" in the lineup (Erick Barkley also missed 5 games during the season, which practically limited it a 5-man roster).

Barkley, Bootsy and Postell  are way better than Ponds, Simon and Ahmed.

Maybe, so.  But, it still was a short rotation.  That was the argument. 

Basically, the current short rotation has sufficient talent, but they have care blanche to do whatever on the offensive end and it can, at times, resemble a fire drill when teams have or group running around scrambling with sound ball movement on the defensive end. 

Some of y'all sound like a few Gamecock fans I know.  The SEC East is straight up trash, outside of Georgia.  But, some Gamecock fans believe it is good football with teams just beating up on one another in the East.  I know the difference between sports "cannibalism" and seeing a shitty product.

Do they have enough talent without LoVett?

Yep.  Do you think they're the worst team in the conference without LoVett?  Be honest.

Remember, this team was on the cusp of beating two teams (Seton Hall & Creighton) ON the road that, IMO, are better than Providence and DePaul (whom both smoked us at home).

Really?  DePaul beat the stew outta us at home.

We don't have the talent without LoVett to be anywhere near the NCAA bubble or the NIT. I'd say we'd be better than DePaul and Georgetown but not by that much.

Re: Trust the Process
« Reply #183 on: January 07, 2018, 05:53:25 PM »
There are absolutely coaches who could get this team on the tourney. You remind me of friends I had in high school when senior year we used to play tackle football and the guys thought they were tougher than the players on the high school football team and wanted to challenge them. Had to tell my buddies they would kill us because of how organized they would be. We go into games at a disadvantage because of coaching simple as that. Best thing Mullin could do for us is continue to have a staff recruit at a high level and then turn the reins over to a much more competent basketball coach.

Ok then what coach is ST John's University going to bring in that would get 5 BE quality players to the tourney. Don't bother answering because answer is no one. Again the fact that we only have 5 players is on Mullin and his little asst that everyone loves. And yes there are better coaches, but a 5 seed? Lavin? That is laughable.

Whether, it be a 5 seed or lower, or with Lavin or another coach....  There are coaches who can get this team to the NCAA Tournament or, at the least, have 'em on the bubble.

Mike Jarvis went 12-4 (25-8 overall) in the Big East, and won the conference totournament with essentially a 6-man rotation and no one over 6'8" in the lineup (Erick Barkley also missed 5 games during the season, which practically limited it a 5-man roster).

Barkley, Bootsy and Postell  are way better than Ponds, Simon and Ahmed.

Maybe, so.  But, it still was a short rotation.  That was the argument. 

Basically, the current short rotation has sufficient talent, but they have care blanche to do whatever on the offensive end and it can, at times, resemble a fire drill when teams have or group running around scrambling with sound ball movement on the defensive end. 

Some of y'all sound like a few Gamecock fans I know.  The SEC East is straight up trash, outside of Georgia.  But, some Gamecock fans believe it is good football with teams just beating up on one another in the East.  I know the difference between sports "cannibalism" and seeing a shitty product.

Do they have enough talent without LoVett?

Yep.  Do you think they're the worst team in the conference without LoVett?  Be honest.

Remember, this team was on the cusp of beating two teams (Seton Hall & Creighton) ON the road that, IMO, are better than Providence and DePaul (whom both smoked us at home).

Really?  DePaul beat the stew outta us at home.

We don't have the talent without LoVett to be anywhere near the NCAA bubble or the NIT. I'd say we'd be better than DePaul and Georgetown but not by that much.

Well, in that case, we really wasn't that talented from jumpstreet per your synopsis.  That also means we're not gonna be that talented next season, as I doubt LoVett is at St. John's in '18-'19.

Nevertheless, I'll agree to disagree.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 05:54:30 PM by mjdinkins »

Re: Trust the Process
« Reply #184 on: January 07, 2018, 05:58:22 PM »
There are absolutely coaches who could get this team on the tourney. You remind me of friends I had in high school when senior year we used to play tackle football and the guys thought they were tougher than the players on the high school football team and wanted to challenge them. Had to tell my buddies they would kill us because of how organized they would be. We go into games at a disadvantage because of coaching simple as that. Best thing Mullin could do for us is continue to have a staff recruit at a high level and then turn the reins over to a much more competent basketball coach.

Ok then what coach is ST John's University going to bring in that would get 5 BE quality players to the tourney. Don't bother answering because answer is no one. Again the fact that we only have 5 players is on Mullin and his little asst that everyone loves. And yes there are better coaches, but a 5 seed? Lavin? That is laughable.

Whether, it be a 5 seed or lower, or with Lavin or another coach....  There are coaches who can get this team to the NCAA Tournament or, at the least, have 'em on the bubble.

Mike Jarvis went 12-4 (25-8 overall) in the Big East, and won the conference totournament with essentially a 6-man rotation and no one over 6'8" in the lineup (Erick Barkley also missed 5 games during the season, which practically limited it a 5-man roster).

Barkley, Bootsy and Postell  are way better than Ponds, Simon and Ahmed.

Maybe, so.  But, it still was a short rotation.  That was the argument. 

Basically, the current short rotation has sufficient talent, but they have care blanche to do whatever on the offensive end and it can, at times, resemble a fire drill when teams have or group running around scrambling with sound ball movement on the defensive end. 

Some of y'all sound like a few Gamecock fans I know.  The SEC East is straight up trash, outside of Georgia.  But, some Gamecock fans believe it is good football with teams just beating up on one another in the East.  I know the difference between sports "cannibalism" and seeing a shitty product.

Do they have enough talent without LoVett?

Yep.  Do you think they're the worst team in the conference without LoVett?  Be honest.

Remember, this team was on the cusp of beating two teams (Seton Hall & Creighton) ON the road that, IMO, are better than Providence and DePaul (whom both smoked us at home).

Really?  DePaul beat the stew outta us at home.

We don't have the talent without LoVett to be anywhere near the NCAA bubble or the NIT. I'd say we'd be better than DePaul and Georgetown but not by that much.

Well, in that case, we really wasn't that talented from jumpstreet per your synopsis.  That also means we're not gonna be that talented next season, as I doubt LoVett is at St. John's in '18-'19.

Nevertheless, I'll agree to disagree.

Not necessarily though. My prognosis was that we were a very delicate team and couldn't afford a single injury. We were/are talented 1-5 but that's really abotu it. If everyone was healthy for the whole season, we could be a 7-10 seed in the NCAA tourney. One injury could derail us. Unfortunately, that injury happened. This delicate structure has a lot to do with Mullin and Matt A's constructing the team.

If (as I expect) LoVett leaves, we should still be a lot more deeper with Keita, Williams, Brooks and Dixon. I would hope it's also safe to assume Roberts is better than Amar. We should have a solid 8 man rotation if no one else from our starting lineup transfers/leaves early.

Re: Trust the Process
« Reply #185 on: January 07, 2018, 06:07:07 PM »
There are absolutely coaches who could get this team on the tourney. You remind me of friends I had in high school when senior year we used to play tackle football and the guys thought they were tougher than the players on the high school football team and wanted to challenge them. Had to tell my buddies they would kill us because of how organized they would be. We go into games at a disadvantage because of coaching simple as that. Best thing Mullin could do for us is continue to have a staff recruit at a high level and then turn the reins over to a much more competent basketball coach.

Ok then what coach is ST John's University going to bring in that would get 5 BE quality players to the tourney. Don't bother answering because answer is no one. Again the fact that we only have 5 players is on Mullin and his little asst that everyone loves. And yes there are better coaches, but a 5 seed? Lavin? That is laughable.

Whether, it be a 5 seed or lower, or with Lavin or another coach....  There are coaches who can get this team to the NCAA Tournament or, at the least, have 'em on the bubble.

Mike Jarvis went 12-4 (25-8 overall) in the Big East, and won the conference totournament with essentially a 6-man rotation and no one over 6'8" in the lineup (Erick Barkley also missed 5 games during the season, which practically limited it a 5-man roster).

Barkley, Bootsy and Postell  are way better than Ponds, Simon and Ahmed.

Maybe, so.  But, it still was a short rotation.  That was the argument. 

Basically, the current short rotation has sufficient talent, but they have care blanche to do whatever on the offensive end and it can, at times, resemble a fire drill when teams have or group running around scrambling with sound ball movement on the defensive end. 

Some of y'all sound like a few Gamecock fans I know.  The SEC East is straight up trash, outside of Georgia.  But, some Gamecock fans believe it is good football with teams just beating up on one another in the East.  I know the difference between sports "cannibalism" and seeing a shitty product.

Do they have enough talent without LoVett?

Yep.  Do you think they're the worst team in the conference without LoVett?  Be honest.

Remember, this team was on the cusp of beating two teams (Seton Hall & Creighton) ON the road that, IMO, are better than Providence and DePaul (whom both smoked us at home).

Really?  DePaul beat the stew outta us at home.

We don't have the talent without LoVett to be anywhere near the NCAA bubble or the NIT. I'd say we'd be better than DePaul and Georgetown but not by that much.

Well, in that case, we really wasn't that talented from jumpstreet per your synopsis.  That also means we're not gonna be that talented next season, as I doubt LoVett is at St. John's in '18-'19.

Nevertheless, I'll agree to disagree.

Not necessarily though. My prognosis was that we were a very delicate team and couldn't afford a single injury. We were/are talented 1-5 but that's really abotu it. If everyone was healthy for the whole season, we could be a 7-10 seed in the NCAA tourney. One injury could derail us. Unfortunately, that injury happened. This delicate structure has a lot to do with Mullin and Matt A's constructing the team.

If (as I expect) LoVett leaves, we should still be a lot more deeper with Keita, Williams, Brooks and Dixon. I would hope it's also safe to assume Roberts is better than Amar. We should have a solid 8 man rotation if no one else from our starting lineup transfers/leaves early.

Your latter paragraph is focusing on depth rather than overall talent.  Depth is good, but overall talent is better.

Keita is decent, but still somewhat raw.  Maybe, the year off helps him.  Brooks probably will be of aide, as I think he can help us right outta the gate.  Remember, he's also yet to sign.  I'm not expecting a ton from Williams, but I'd love to be surprised.  Dixon probably will also help us outta the gate. 

Once again, some of y'all continue to ignore the elephant in the room.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 06:18:40 PM by mjdinkins »

paultzman

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Re: Trust the Process
« Reply #186 on: January 07, 2018, 06:24:57 PM »
There are absolutely coaches who could get this team on the tourney. You remind me of friends I had in high school when senior year we used to play tackle football and the guys thought they were tougher than the players on the high school football team and wanted to challenge them. Had to tell my buddies they would kill us because of how organized they would be. We go into games at a disadvantage because of coaching simple as that. Best thing Mullin could do for us is continue to have a staff recruit at a high level and then turn the reins over to a much more competent basketball coach.

Ok then what coach is ST John's University going to bring in that would get 5 BE quality players to the tourney. Don't bother answering because answer is no one. Again the fact that we only have 5 players is on Mullin and his little asst that everyone loves. And yes there are better coaches, but a 5 seed? Lavin? That is laughable.

Whether, it be a 5 seed or lower, or with Lavin or another coach....  There are coaches who can get this team to the NCAA Tournament or, at the least, have 'em on the bubble.

Mike Jarvis went 12-4 (25-8 overall) in the Big East, and won the conference totournament with essentially a 6-man rotation and no one over 6'8" in the lineup (Erick Barkley also missed 5 games during the season, which practically limited it a 5-man roster).

Barkley, Bootsy and Postell  are way better than Ponds, Simon and Ahmed.

Maybe, so.  But, it still was a short rotation.  That was the argument. 

Basically, the current short rotation has sufficient talent, but they have care blanche to do whatever on the offensive end and it can, at times, resemble a fire drill when teams have or group running around scrambling with sound ball movement on the defensive end. 

Some of y'all sound like a few Gamecock fans I know.  The SEC East is straight up trash, outside of Georgia.  But, some Gamecock fans believe it is good football with teams just beating up on one another in the East.  I know the difference between sports "cannibalism" and seeing a shitty product.

Do they have enough talent without LoVett?

Yep.  Do you think they're the worst team in the conference without LoVett?  Be honest.

Remember, this team was on the cusp of beating two teams (Seton Hall & Creighton) ON the road that, IMO, are better than Providence and DePaul (whom both smoked us at home).

Really?  DePaul beat the stew outta us at home.

We don't have the talent without LoVett to be anywhere near the NCAA bubble or the NIT. I'd say we'd be better than DePaul and Georgetown but not by that much.

Well, in that case, we really wasn't that talented from jumpstreet per your synopsis.  That also means we're not gonna be that talented next season, as I doubt LoVett is at St. John's in '18-'19.

Nevertheless, I'll agree to disagree.

Not necessarily though. My prognosis was that we were a very delicate team and couldn't afford a single injury. We were/are talented 1-5 but that's really abotu it. If everyone was healthy for the whole season, we could be a 7-10 seed in the NCAA tourney. One injury could derail us. Unfortunately, that injury happened. This delicate structure has a lot to do with Mullin and Matt A's constructing the team.

If (as I expect) LoVett leaves, we should still be a lot more deeper with Keita, Williams, Brooks and Dixon. I would hope it's also safe to assume Roberts is better than Amar. We should have a solid 8 man rotation if no one else from our starting lineup transfers/leaves early.

Gene Keady is better than Amar.

Re: Trust the Process
« Reply #187 on: January 07, 2018, 06:36:23 PM »
If we hadn't fired Slice (or never hired him in the first place), we also wouldn't be paying millions of dollars each year into a black hole. I doubt our budget allowed Mullin to hire anyone on staff. (And before you ask, I blame Mullin for this)

We do all realize that no actual big time basketball program would take the position that because they're still overpaying a fired assistant they can't put together a complete and competent staff.  Especially not one that has a conference tv package paying them $4-5 million per year.

Re: Trust the Process
« Reply #188 on: January 07, 2018, 06:55:49 PM »
If we hadn't fired Slice (or never hired him in the first place), we also wouldn't be paying millions of dollars each year into a black hole. I doubt our budget allowed Mullin to hire anyone on staff. (And before you ask, I blame Mullin for this)

We do all realize that no actual big time basketball program would take the position that because they're still overpaying a fired assistant they can't put together a complete and competent staff.  Especially not one that has a conference tv package paying them $4-5 million per year.
The Wilpons would.

Re: Trust the Process
« Reply #189 on: January 07, 2018, 07:23:48 PM »
Depth isn't a secondary issue when Amar is playing 10+ minutes two games in a row.
We didn’t get blown out yesterday at home because of Amar.

It was absolutely part of it. He gives the opposing team more points than any player we’ve ever had. It’s one aspect of the staff’s carelessness in assembling this roster. After Mullin’s first year, Amar announced he would transfer, and this braintrust brought him back.
Amar sucking is on him. Amar still on the team and providing nothing positive is on the staff. The kid is big and decent athlete. He should be able to do something. He checks into the game and really tries. He wants to do well. But he plays his game. He should have a specific role. And that role is not of a gunner.
There is no role that he can fill. Can’t shoot, pass, defend or rebound. Nice kid. As you say, him being on team and still playing is on staff. Very frustrating to see him enter game and especially frustrating when he sets up on perimeter and calls for the ball. Would rather see him foul out after 5 hard picks.

Johnny23

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Re: Trust the Process
« Reply #190 on: January 07, 2018, 08:02:27 PM »
Amar's biggest contribution to the program will be if he goes back to Europe after this season and helps the staff recruit a few top Euros to SJU.

Re: Trust the Process
« Reply #191 on: January 07, 2018, 08:24:01 PM »
Amar's biggest contribution to the program will be if he goes back to Europe after this season and helps the staff recruit a few top Euros to SJU.
Wouldn't trust his evaluations. He thinks he is good.

Johnny23

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Re: Trust the Process
« Reply #192 on: January 07, 2018, 09:05:21 PM »
Amar's biggest contribution to the program will be if he goes back to Europe after this season and helps the staff recruit a few top Euros to SJU.
Wouldn't trust his evaluations. He thinks he is good.

 ;D

Re: Trust the Process
« Reply #193 on: January 07, 2018, 09:07:56 PM »
Maybe bring in Jimmy Patsos?

Re: Trust the Process
« Reply #194 on: January 07, 2018, 09:12:37 PM »
Maybe bring in Jimmy Patsos?
His current seat is hot enough

Re: Trust the Process
« Reply #195 on: January 08, 2018, 04:38:06 AM »
Maybe bring in Jimmy Patsos?

Holy shit, you really do want this team to fail.
*wipes ketchup from his eyes* - I guess Heinz sight isn’t 20/20.

Re: Trust the Process
« Reply #196 on: January 08, 2018, 05:48:12 AM »
Maybe bring in Jimmy Patsos?

Holy shit, you really do want this team to fail.

Sarcasm.  If you're going to go down in flames, might as well take the express elevator

pmg911

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Re: Trust the Process
« Reply #197 on: January 08, 2018, 10:48:11 AM »
I think if we don't make the tourney by the year after next Mullin steps down. And if that happens rather than going for another rebuild, I think the school should seriously consider joining a less competitive conference.

Just curious on thoughts - if a small Catholic school like Villanova can consistently be a Top 10 program in basketball, why can't St. john's...?


Re: Trust the Process
« Reply #198 on: January 08, 2018, 11:16:35 AM »
This article on Jay Wright covers some of that.

https://www.gq.com/story/jay-wright-villanova-the-anti-coach

It's not that we can't, it's that building a program takes time, commitment, right leadership, financial support etc.



wpc77

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Re: Trust the Process
« Reply #199 on: January 08, 2018, 11:17:27 AM »
I think if we don't make the tourney by the year after next Mullin steps down. And if that happens rather than going for another rebuild, I think the school should seriously consider joining a less competitive conference.

Just curious on thoughts - if a small Catholic school like Villanova can consistently be a Top 10 program in basketball, why can't St. john's...?



Agree, but you could ask the same question about the academic gap between the two universities as well.  This is the product of decades of mismanagement, theft and gross negligence by Harrington and his team.  He destroyed much of what Father Cahill and Jack Kaiser built.  I don't think the current admin and alumni base realize the extreme hole that the university is in.  You would think that Mullin does, though.