Depaul prediction thread

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on February 16, 2018, 08:54:28 AM

Quote from: Foad on February 16, 2018, 08:09:28 AM

Quote from: Marillac on February 15, 2018, 09:35:47 PM

I do not think listing Hatten as the third best guard that we've had in my 25 years as
a fan is sh*tting on him.

You're denigrating his accomplishments to make Ponds look better by comparison.

What would providing the wrong stats for ponds in comparison to Hatten be considered as?

Here are the stats I go by. And I don't care about the years because basketball has changed and good players don't stick around past Soph year anymore.

Hatten-41-25 / 16-16 BE
1 NCAA appearance and 1 NIT championship

Hardy-38-28 / 18-18 BE
1 NCAA appearance
1 NIT appearance

Harrison 1st two years-30-35 / 14-22 BE
1 NIT appearance

Ponds-28-32 / 10-21

I have Ponds ranked below Hatten and above Hardy and Harrison as a player.
As far as his legacy goes, so far he is more in step with Harrison at this point and well below Hatten and Hardy. If he stays another year  he could possibly overtake Hatten in my opinion but if he leaves after this year and only can manage an NIT or worse then years from now when you think back on him, his legacy will be lacking compared to other similar players.

St. John's was 8-8 in conference the year before Hatten with the same (younger) players and a freshman Omar Cook. They were 9-7 adding a junior Hatten and a soph Stanley as transfers and Eric King as a frosh while  losing the great Alpha Bangura to transfer the following year.  Both years they finished third in the Big East's East division.

St. John's was 1-17 in the Big East before Ponds and went 8-12 with him, Lovett, and Owens.
Glover and Emanuel played every minute of the center position and sometimes as PF and C together for a Big East championship team. Willie Shaw averaged 14 ppg as the second leading scorer on an 8-8 Big East team the year prior. It's not like Hatten was taking over a team that couldn't compete.

I get that Hatten team was limited, but they were big and deep. They were physical as hell too. Always crashing glass.

BTW Donald Emanuel's record was 87-44 and he played at least 31 games on three separate NCAA tournament teams.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on February 16, 2018, 10:27:01 AM

Quote from: we are sju on February 16, 2018, 10:19:34 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on February 16, 2018, 10:08:18 AM

Kobe over Lebron?

Close
Winning at that level you can use your judgement. I am sure some have Kobe over him. I have Lebron.
If Peyton Manning had won another Super Bowl or two he would have had a case against Brady even if Brady had won more.
Best QB I ever saw was Marino but he isn't even mention as GOAT.
Right now Ponds as best player on his team last two years has not won at all. Obviously not all his fault but again Hatten had comparable if not worse talent.

Am I wrong in remembering you saying Lovett was best player on team last year?

No. WASJU repeatedly posted how Lovett was better than Ponds. He also said he didn't like the way the outside shots of Mullin, Harrison, and Ponds look!

He put Ponds behind Harrison and Hardy as well and scoffed a the notion of Ponds being as good as Hatten. Now he has Ponds ahead of two and wants to act like its always been that way.

His stance on how good of a shooter Ponds is has also undergone some comical changes. He went from not liking the way the shot looks (couldn't knock him as a bad shooter yet after 38% as a freshman), to he flat out can't shoot after a 17% start, to he can only shoot off the bounce once Ponds bringing his %s up.

At the same time he blasts me for saying Simon is playing out of position while giving the kid the respect that he could play in the NBA in a different role. Simon dribbles the ball to his chin. If you asked him personally he'd say he needs to work on his handle.

Ponds play changed my mind. What is hard to understand about that? Only crazy people do not alter their thought process as things change.

Quote from: we are sju on February 16, 2018, 09:44:37 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on February 16, 2018, 08:54:28 AM

Quote from: Foad on February 16, 2018, 08:09:28 AM

Quote from: Marillac on February 15, 2018, 09:35:47 PM

I do not think listing Hatten as the third best guard that we've had in my 25 years as
a fan is sh*tting on him.

You're denigrating his accomplishments to make Ponds look better by comparison.

What would providing the wrong stats for ponds in comparison to Hatten be considered as?

Here are the stats I go by. And I don't care about the years because basketball has changed and good players don't stick around past Soph year anymore.

Hatten-41-25 / 16-16 BE
1 NCAA appearance and 1 NIT championship

Hardy-38-28 / 18-18 BE
1 NCAA appearance
1 NIT appearance

Harrison 1st two years-30-35 / 14-22 BE
1 NIT appearance

Ponds-28-32 / 10-21

I have Ponds ranked below Hatten and above Hardy and Harrison as a player.
As far as his legacy goes, so far he is more in step with Harrison at this point and well below Hatten and Hardy. If he stays another year  he could possibly overtake Hatten in my opinion but if he leaves after this year and only can manage an NIT or worse then years from now when you think back on him, his legacy will be lacking compared to other similar players.

St. John's was 8-8 in conference the year before Hatten with the same (younger) players and a freshman Omar Cook. They were 9-7 adding a junior Hatten and a soph Stanley as transfers and Eric King as a frosh while  losing the great Alpha Bangura to transfer the following year.  Both years they finished third in the Big East's East division.

St. John's was 1-17 in the Big East before Ponds and went 8-12 with him, Lovett, and Owens.
Glover and Emanuel played every minute of the center position and sometimes as PF and C together for a Big East championship team. Willie Shaw averaged 14 ppg as the second leading scorer on an 8-8 Big East team the year prior. It's not like Hatten was taking over a team that couldn't compete.

I get that Hatten team was limited, but they were big and deep. They were physical as hell too. Always crashing glass.

BTW Donald Emanuel's record was 87-44 and he played at least 31 games on three separate NCAA tournament teams.

Below is the stats for the team Hatten carried to the tourney. I posted this because I feel bad that some of the younger posters might think some of the guys Marillac keeps talking about were good. They were not. Please see below. And honestly my memories of them are even worse than their terrible stats indicate.



Eric King   1   FR   F   6-6   230   Brooklyn, NY   7.6 Pts, 4.5 Reb, 0.7 Ast
Willie Shaw   23   SO   G   6-6   190   Bronx, NY   6.8 Pts, 2.3 Reb, 1.0 Ast
Donald Emanuel   33   SR   F   6-9   230   Houston, TX   6.1 Pts, 2.8 Reb, 1.0 Ast
Sharif Fordham   3   SR   G   6-4   200   Far Rockaway, NY   5.1 Pts, 3.5 Reb, 0.9 Ast
Kyle Cuffe   25   SO   F   6-9   243   Bronx, NY   5.6 Pts, 3.0 Reb, 0.6 Ast
Alpha Banurga   15   JR   G   6-6   215   Lanham, MD   5.6 Pts, 2.2 Reb, 0.8 Ast
Andre Stanley   14   JR   G   6-4   204   Brooklyn, NY   3.2 Pts, 2.5 Reb, 1.7 Ast
Abe Keita   4   JR   C   6-11   222   Winchendon, MA   2.4 Pts, 2.6 Reb, 0.3 Ast
Tristan Smith   2   FR   G   6-1   185   Amityville, NY   1.4 Pts, 0.9 Reb, 0.8 Ast
Mohamed Diakite   44   SO   C   6-11   235   Rockville, MD   2.1 Pts, 1.6 Reb, 0.1 Ast
Curtis Johnson   52   SO   C   7-3   308   Norfolk, VA   0.8 Pts, 1.2 Reb, 0.0 Ast
Jon Scheiman   11   JR   G   6-1   178   New York, NY   0.3 Pts, 0.2 Reb, 0.2 Ast
Danny Bovain   55   JR   G   6-3   0      1.0 Pts, 0.0 Reb, 0.0 Ast

BTW Donald Emanuel's record was 87-44 and he played at least 31 games on three separate NCAA tournament teams.

Emanuel was awful for three years. His fourth year - a year where he averaged 6 points and 3 rebounds a game - was nothing short of astonishing.

Quote from: we are sju on February 16, 2018, 09:44:37 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on February 16, 2018, 08:54:28 AM

Quote from: Foad on February 16, 2018, 08:09:28 AM

Quote from: Marillac on February 15, 2018, 09:35:47 PM

I do not think listing Hatten as the third best guard that we've had in my 25 years as
a fan is sh*tting on him.

You're denigrating his accomplishments to make Ponds look better by comparison.

What would providing the wrong stats for ponds in comparison to Hatten be considered as?

Here are the stats I go by. And I don't care about the years because basketball has changed and good players don't stick around past Soph year anymore.

Hatten-41-25 / 16-16 BE
1 NCAA appearance and 1 NIT championship

Hardy-38-28 / 18-18 BE
1 NCAA appearance
1 NIT appearance

Harrison 1st two years-30-35 / 14-22 BE
1 NIT appearance

Ponds-28-32 / 10-21

I have Ponds ranked below Hatten and above Hardy and Harrison as a player.
As far as his legacy goes, so far he is more in step with Harrison at this point and well below Hatten and Hardy. If he stays another year  he could possibly overtake Hatten in my opinion but if he leaves after this year and only can manage an NIT or worse then years from now when you think back on him, his legacy will be lacking compared to other similar players.

St. John's was 8-8 in conference the year before Hatten with the same (younger) players and a freshman Omar Cook. They were 9-7 adding a junior Hatten and a soph Stanley as transfers and Eric King as a frosh while  losing the great Alpha Bangura to transfer the following year.  Both years they finished third in the Big East's East division.

St. John's was 1-17 in the Big East before Ponds and went 8-12 with him, Lovett, and Owens.
Glover and Emanuel played every minute of the center position and sometimes as PF and C together for a Big East championship team. Willie Shaw averaged 14 ppg as the second leading scorer on an 8-8 Big East team the year prior. It's not like Hatten was taking over a team that couldn't compete.

I get that Hatten team was limited, but they were big and deep. They were physical as hell too. Always crashing glass.

BTW Donald Emanuel's record was 87-44 and he played at least 31 games on three separate NCAA tournament teams.

They replaced a very good player Cook with a fantastic player and made the tourney. That is really the whole story.

Wish we were playing tomorrow because this dead horse reeks.  .

Quote from: Marillac on February 16, 2018, 12:30:42 PM

BTW Donald Emanuel's record was 87-44 and he played at least 31 games on three separate NCAA tournament teams.

Emanuel was awful for three years. His fourth year - a year where he averaged 6 points and 3 rebounds a game - was nothing short of astonishing.

I wasn't a fan of Emanuel during his time at SJU. I've come to appreciate him more since I learned what terrible play and players actually looks like.

Not many kids could give 10 mpg to a team that was a shot away from the Final Four as a freshman and then 15 minutes to a team that won the old Big East as a soph. He was big and he boxed out every shot, set good screens, and played tough D.

If you had a choice between Glover and Emanuel or Owens and Clark who would you choose?

I wasn't a fan of Emanuel during his time at SJU. I've come to appreciate him more since I learned what terrible play and players actually looks like.

Not many kids could give 10 mpg to a team that was a shot away from the Final Four as a freshman and then 15 minutes to a team that won the old Big East as a soph. He was big and he boxed out every shot, set good screens, and played tough D.

I can't really remember how well DE boxed out or set screens, as that was nearly 20 years ago. I'll take you're word for it. The only defensive play I remember him making was fouling a three point shooter against someone, UConn maybe, with like 10 seconds left in some game and I only remember that because I saw it replayed recently on ESPN. He was a very dumb player, he'd fit right in on this year's team.

If you had a choice between Glover and Emanuel or Owens and Clark who would you choose?

Depends what version of which player to what on which team. In a vacuum probably Owens and Clark. If I had to pick one of them I'd take Glover.   

Quote from: Marillac on February 16, 2018, 12:30:42 PM

Quote from: we are sju on February 16, 2018, 09:44:37 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on February 16, 2018, 08:54:28 AM

Quote from: Foad on February 16, 2018, 08:09:28 AM

Quote from: Marillac on February 15, 2018, 09:35:47 PM

I do not think listing Hatten as the third best guard that we've had in my 25 years as
a fan is sh*tting on him.

You're denigrating his accomplishments to make Ponds look better by comparison.

What would providing the wrong stats for ponds in comparison to Hatten be considered as?

Here are the stats I go by. And I don't care about the years because basketball has changed and good players don't stick around past Soph year anymore.

Hatten-41-25 / 16-16 BE
1 NCAA appearance and 1 NIT championship

Hardy-38-28 / 18-18 BE
1 NCAA appearance
1 NIT appearance

Harrison 1st two years-30-35 / 14-22 BE
1 NIT appearance

Ponds-28-32 / 10-21

I have Ponds ranked below Hatten and above Hardy and Harrison as a player.
As far as his legacy goes, so far he is more in step with Harrison at this point and well below Hatten and Hardy. If he stays another year  he could possibly overtake Hatten in my opinion but if he leaves after this year and only can manage an NIT or worse then years from now when you think back on him, his legacy will be lacking compared to other similar players.

St. John's was 8-8 in conference the year before Hatten with the same (younger) players and a freshman Omar Cook. They were 9-7 adding a junior Hatten and a soph Stanley as transfers and Eric King as a frosh while  losing the great Alpha Bangura to transfer the following year.  Both years they finished third in the Big East's East division.

St. John's was 1-17 in the Big East before Ponds and went 8-12 with him, Lovett, and Owens.
Glover and Emanuel played every minute of the center position and sometimes as PF and C together for a Big East championship team. Willie Shaw averaged 14 ppg as the second leading scorer on an 8-8 Big East team the year prior. It's not like Hatten was taking over a team that couldn't compete.

I get that Hatten team was limited, but they were big and deep. They were physical as hell too. Always crashing glass.

BTW Donald Emanuel's record was 87-44 and he played at least 31 games on three separate NCAA tournament teams.

They replaced a very good player Cook with a fantastic player and made the tourney. That is really the whole story.

It's not that simple. Jarvis started three freshman that year and two sophs. That was a young team. Jessie was a senior but he was terrible that year. The only other upperclassmen were Emanuel and first year Sharif Fordham.

You'd expect an 8-8 team with that many young kids to add a few wins as sophs and juniors, right? Plus, the Omar team played the toughest OOC we've ever had:  Kentucky, Kansas, national champion Duke, Michigan, @Ohio State, @George Washington, @Hofstra (26-5 that year), San Francisco, and @Fordham. 2001-2002 had two top 20 opponent and got crushed by both:  #3 Duke by 42 and #13 Miami by 23.

Cook's squad beat #12 Kentucky, lost to #7 Kansas by 12, lost @ #10 Uconn by 2 in OT, lost by 32 to #3 Duke, and lost by 2 in double OT to #19 Syracuse.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on February 16, 2018, 10:08:18 AM

Kobe over Lebron?

Close
Winning at that level you can use your judgement. I am sure some have Kobe over him. I have Lebron.
If Peyton Manning had won another Super Bowl or two he would have had a case against Brady even if Brady had won more.
Best QB I ever saw was Marino but he isn't even mention as GOAT.
Right now Ponds as best player on his team last two years has not won at all. Obviously not all his fault but again Hatten had comparable if not worse talent.

OMG agree with you on Marino and I go further back than you to Unitas , Starr and Namath. Believe marino doesn't get the credit he deserves because his teams never won the Super Bowl but to me he was still the best. Of course it is hair close with Brady, P. Manning, Montana, Elway, Rodgers and probably a few others.

Quote from: Poison on February 15, 2018, 10:27:40 PM

Quote from: Marillac on February 15, 2018, 07:52:29 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on February 15, 2018, 07:41:17 PM

Quote from: Marillac on February 15, 2018, 06:46:05 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on February 15, 2018, 06:27:21 PM

Andre Staley, Tristan smith, and sharif Fordham Ball handlers? Wooooow!

This is the typical St. John's fan reaction. Sharif Fordham was as an exceptional glue guy. Stanley to a lesser degree. Smith was just a pure PG with a decent shot that can give backup minutes. You can win with guys like that if you have a Ponds or Hatten. Not everyone has to be a star or a super athlete.

We are surviving now by having Simon taking the load of Ponds just enough to allow ponds to conserve his energy to win the second half. Ponds would really benefit from any one of those
Guys.

Our new PG  recruiting strategy should be to send WASJU out to find the one guy he hates most and sign him to be our backup. Your crazy if you think Stanley and Fordham wouldn't have take all of Trimble's minutes.

Fordham played defense . Andre Staley is freshman Brian Trimble. Tristan smith should have played division 3 football

Trimble just shoots jumpers and Andre Stanley only tried to get in the lane. They are nothing alike.  Stanley would help this current team more....better defender and better ball handler. I'd be inclined to take Trimble over him long term.

+1

Trimble is Ricky Torres. Stanley was a street baller.

Trimble is way better than Ricky Torres already.

Is he really? I think he's a little better than. Overweight shooting guards who can't get into the lane, and are overmatched defensively.

Trimble has been fine for a freshman getting so many minutes. Next year the rubber meets road for him relative to increased competition. Heard staff has been real clear with him re need to pay the price and lose weight. If he does, I suspect his outside shooting potential will buy him decent time. If not ....

Trimble has been fine for a freshman getting so many minutes. Next year the rubber meets road for him relative to increased competition. Heard staff has been real clear with him re need to pay the price and lose weight. If he does, I suspect his outside shooting potential will buy him decent time. If not ....

Though better than Amar it is same story. Trimble was probably recruited a s a 4 year guy who would not play much in beginning if ever. It is not his fault he is the 6th man.

Trimble has been fine for a freshman getting so many minutes. Next year the rubber meets road for him relative to increased competition. Heard staff has been real clear with him re need to pay the price and lose weight. If he does, I suspect his outside shooting potential will buy him decent time. If not ....

He's been very solid. All you can ask of a freshman is his situation is to not play you out of games. He does just enough defensively and on the glass to play pretty much even. That's huge for this team. It would have been nice to have his PG equivalent this year.

The best thing about Trimble is seems to be very aware of what he's capable of and what his limitations are. He doesn't make a lot of mistakes, and rarely takes bad shots or forces anything.

I don't see him ever being a great player but hopefully a back end rotation player for 4 years.

I’m no B.B. genius. But w Trimble getting more time and Yakwe and Amar glued to the bench, we have been winning. And he is only a freshman. If he looses weight , should be a nice 4 year contributor.

Trimble has been fine for a freshman getting so many minutes. Next year the rubber meets road for him relative to increased competition. Heard staff has been real clear with him re need to pay the price and lose weight. If he does, I suspect his outside shooting potential will buy him decent time. If not ....

As a unheralded recruit he has done a fine job as a freshman playing expanded minutes and meshing in with the fabric of this team. He's kept his turnovers down, plays solid on/off ball D and is slowly adapting to pace of play in the BE. I think that he's done a honorable job for a 3 star, Midwest 18 year old thrown into the highest level of D1 hoops. Rooting for him and hope he continues to improve as the years go on.

Quote from: paultzman on February 16, 2018, 02:27:11 PM

Trimble has been fine for a freshman getting so many minutes. Next year the rubber meets road for him relative to increased competition. Heard staff has been real clear with him re need to pay the price and lose weight. If he does, I suspect his outside shooting potential will buy him decent time. If not ....

As a unheralded recruit he has done a fine job as a freshman playing expanded minutes and meshing in with the fabric of this team. He's kept his turnovers down, plays solid on/off ball D and is slowly adapting to pace of play in the BE. I think that he's done a honorable job for a 3 star, Midwest 18 year old thrown into the highest level of D1 hoops. Rooting for him and hope he continues to improve as the years go on.

Agree. This isn't Kentucky. We bemoan the lack of experience on the one hand and throw freshmen under the bus with the other. He's too fat, he's too slow, he's too short, he's too thin, he's too this, he's too that. He's too freshmen, that's what he is. He's a good shooter, he's a sneaky good rebounder, he doesn't turn the ball over  and he tries on defense. I wish we had three more of him, each one fatter than the next.

Trimble was #1 in the country in turnover rate. That's crazy.

Johnnies coming in at #12 in the power rankings on The Ringer.

https://www.theringer.com/2018/2/16/17019206/college-basketball-power-rankings-michigan-state-texas-tech