Chris Mullin's seat getting hotter?

We have taken Arizona State, Villanova, Missouri, Seton Hall, and Creighton all down to the wire in games where both teams played well. It wasn't like any of them just couldn't hit a shot or anything. They were pretty much on their games and we competed with them down to the wire. Only one of those games was a home game. Something has to be said for that. We've played four bad games. DePaul, Providence, Georgetown, and UCF. UCF was the 3rd game in 4 days in Florida. Georgetown we had one of our two best players out and our only other scoring option had the flu. DePaul we let get away at the end. I think we tend to play down to poorer competition and that's just inexperience.

The big thing is convincing Shamorie to come back next season. If we can do that, this team is going to have a special year next year. They'll have depth and better interior play both offensively and defensively. Yeah, 0-6 sucks. But we could've very easily been 16-2 with a 5-2 conference record if we had more experience and depth which is all coming next season.

Year 1 was a complete wash and shouldn't even be considered when discussing Chris Mullin.

Year 2 was a fine season in a rebuilding process.

Year 3 has had its ups and downs and we've had some pretty crucial blows. It's a snake-bitten season this year with Mussini AND Ellison leaving and transfers not eligible to play yet and then Lovett getting hurt.

These next two years are the ones where we are going to see who Mullin really is as a coach and a leader. He HAS to convince Shamorie to come back for one more year and if he can't win with that team, it's time to start thinking about the future in a new direction.

No the close losses are a mirage.  They aren't any good.

And I brought this up last year and it was a warning sign.  They were 7-11 last year but they were much closer to being 3-15 then they were 11-7.

Meaning in none if their 11 losses did they have any realistic chance of winning.   Hard to believe but they were completely non-competitive in those games. 

And perhaps that fools gold is biting them now.  Because again they were much closer to being significantly worse last year than any better.

These next two years are the ones where we are going to see who Mullin really is as a coach and a leader.

It depends what happens next year, whether he deserves or gets an additional year.  If we're not in the dance next season, then it's time to move on.

Quote from: RedmenNYC on January 14, 2018, 10:20:44 PM

Quote from: fordham96 on January 14, 2018, 10:10:47 PM

Quote from: Pete88 on January 14, 2018, 10:06:24 PM

Quote from: RedmenNYC on January 14, 2018, 09:56:30 PM

Quote from: goredmen on January 14, 2018, 09:44:26 PM

Quote from: fordham96 on January 14, 2018, 09:36:21 PM

Obviously not all circumstances are the same so it is not fair to say all bad seasons are directly the responsibility of the HC.

Since this sentence is true, it completely dismisses everything before it. It is fair to be critical of this staff, everyone knows I have been, but to compare Mullin's record at this point to his predecessors is completely useless considering what Mullin inherited

If Mullin leaves this year, then i guarantee you it'll be five to eight years before we're back to same spot.  He absolutely has to stay, and so does all, if not the majority of the staff.  Anything choice, would be an utterly stupid decision by the athletic department.

Wait, what??? This year has been brutal and I'm not one pushing for Mullin to be ousted, but your comment makes no sense.   Can it possibly be much worse than it is now?  Why would it take a new regime 5-8 years to get to what level --- winless in BE play?  I think that level of futility can be achieved much quicker....

Precisely, that argument itself is stupid.

Do people understand right now he is 8-34 in BE play...0-6 this year and 0-4 at home.  They lost to the projected 2 worst teams at home...

And you are worried about being set back, from that....

He's getting a 4th year but please make a better argument..

Please read my posts above.  You guys are arguing about the past / sunk costs.
While it may makes sense in our hearts to grip over this season, it doesn't really benefit us.

The best way to evaluate is the expected value of the future returns.
I guarantee you a smart AD thinks of these decisions in this manner. 
It would be foolish to demolish the team and gamble on another coach.

Or more simply:  We already stink this year, and we've stunk for the better part of 25 years. What's the big deal if we stink for two more with Mullin if he's really that bad?  ... Or is it smarter to get a full roster, and then evaluate?  If the teams stinks two years from now - by all means, organize a graceful exit.  I would argue the latter - just see what happens with a full team.

Yes, the team is 0 and whatever in the big east.  But this team took #1 Nova and AZ St. close.... I think it's the smarest use of funds to continue with the current course - and then evaluate later, after they have a full team.

That is a weak argument and that doesn't explain why they fired a coach who just took them to the NCAA's if the don't care about sucking for a few years.

Lavin got lazy and stopped recruiting, it's that simple, as Looie said: "people think they can coach here, and think it will be a vacation."
I'm glad Lavin is gone.

Quote from: johnniesfilmmaker on January 15, 2018, 01:06:39 PM

These next two years are the ones where we are going to see who Mullin really is as a coach and a leader.

It depends what happens next year, whether he deserves or gets an additional year.  If we're not in the dance next season, then it's time to move on.

It will be Mullin's 4th year, I'd say NIT, but wanted nit this year, I say nothing less the the NCAA. They won't be short handed next year.

Quote from: johnniesfilmmaker on January 15, 2018, 01:06:39 PM

We have taken Arizona State, Villanova, Missouri, Seton Hall, and Creighton all down to the wire in games where both teams played well. It wasn't like any of them just couldn't hit a shot or anything. They were pretty much on their games and we competed with them down to the wire. Only one of those games was a home game. Something has to be said for that. We've played four bad games. DePaul, Providence, Georgetown, and UCF. UCF was the 3rd game in 4 days in Florida. Georgetown we had one of our two best players out and our only other scoring option had the flu. DePaul we let get away at the end. I think we tend to play down to poorer competition and that's just inexperience.

The big thing is convincing Shamorie to come back next season. If we can do that, this team is going to have a special year next year. They'll have depth and better interior play both offensively and defensively. Yeah, 0-6 sucks. But we could've very easily been 16-2 with a 5-2 conference record if we had more experience and depth which is all coming next season.

Year 1 was a complete wash and shouldn't even be considered when discussing Chris Mullin.

Year 2 was a fine season in a rebuilding process.

Year 3 has had its ups and downs and we've had some pretty crucial blows. It's a snake-bitten season this year with Mussini AND Ellison leaving and transfers not eligible to play yet and then Lovett getting hurt.

These next two years are the ones where we are going to see who Mullin really is as a coach and a leader. He HAS to convince Shamorie to come back for one more year and if he can't win with that team, it's time to start thinking about the future in a new direction.

No the close losses are a mirage.  They aren't any good.

And I brought this up last year and it was a warning sign.  They were 7-11 last year but they were much closer to being 3-15 then they were 11-7.

Meaning in none if their 11 losses did they have any realistic chance of winning.   Hard to believe but they were completely non-competitive in those games. 

And perhaps that fools gold is biting them now.  Because again they were much closer to being significantly worse last year than any better.

Fordham, I usually agree with you, but this doesn't make much sense.  You are penalizing the team for losing close, hard fought games this season and penalizing them for winning close hard fought games last season?  A win is a win, most close wins or losses are ugly.   The Nova game was ugly for both teams, team with better talent and coaching ultimately won... Reality is if you are a Zona fan you care criticizing the way the team won, wasn't pretty. 

Yeah, 0-6 sucks. But we could've very easily been 16-2 with a 5-2 conference record if we had more experience and depth 

Yeah, and if I was better looking and had money I could be banging super models.

Quote from: johnniesfilmmaker on January 15, 2018, 01:06:39 PM

We have taken Arizona State, Villanova, Missouri, Seton Hall, and Creighton all down to the wire in games where both teams played well. It wasn't like any of them just couldn't hit a shot or anything. They were pretty much on their games and we competed with them down to the wire. Only one of those games was a home game. Something has to be said for that. We've played four bad games. DePaul, Providence, Georgetown, and UCF. UCF was the 3rd game in 4 days in Florida. Georgetown we had one of our two best players out and our only other scoring option had the flu. DePaul we let get away at the end. I think we tend to play down to poorer competition and that's just inexperience.

The big thing is convincing Shamorie to come back next season. If we can do that, this team is going to have a special year next year. They'll have depth and better interior play both offensively and defensively. Yeah, 0-6 sucks. But we could've very easily been 16-2 with a 5-2 conference record if we had more experience and depth which is all coming next season.

Year 1 was a complete wash and shouldn't even be considered when discussing Chris Mullin.

Year 2 was a fine season in a rebuilding process.

Year 3 has had its ups and downs and we've had some pretty crucial blows. It's a snake-bitten season this year with Mussini AND Ellison leaving and transfers not eligible to play yet and then Lovett getting hurt.

These next two years are the ones where we are going to see who Mullin really is as a coach and a leader. He HAS to convince Shamorie to come back for one more year and if he can't win with that team, it's time to start thinking about the future in a new direction.

No the close losses are a mirage.  They aren't any good.

And I brought this up last year and it was a warning sign.  They were 7-11 last year but they were much closer to being 3-15 then they were 11-7.

Meaning in none if their 11 losses did they have any realistic chance of winning.   Hard to believe but they were completely non-competitive in those games. 

And perhaps that fools gold is biting them now.  Because again they were much closer to being significantly worse last year than any better.

I agree . Last year . Plenty of beat downs. And we luckily won some games. Playing somewhat close in 4 games so far. Still 2 beatdowns. More beatdowns coming.

Teams are always going to get beat down. But are you seriously not confident that we can be in every single game the rest of the year except maybe Nova on the road, Duke at MSG, and Xavier on the road? I think we can and should be right there with Marquette both times, Seton Hall, Butler once, Creighton, and Marquette twice. I still St. John's could get to 7 wins in conference play if they let Shamorie go to work. Attack the rim, get their bigs in foul trouble, and find a rhythm for him early. If they can do that and also press teams when they start to go on runs, I think the rest of the season will go like this;

@Xavier: L
@ Georgetown: W
Creighton: W
@Butler: L
Xavier: L
Duke: L
@Nova: L
Marquette: W
@DePaul: W
@Marquette: W
Seton Hall: W
Butler: W
@Providence: L

That'd be 7-11 in back to back years and we'd be 17-13. That would put us at a 7 or 8 seed where we could take a Big East Tournament game. You do all that and that should be good enough to make the NIT. Win a game or two in that, bring these kids back (except Lovett because I think he's definitely gone) and come back next year and contend for a Big East title and a Tournament appearance. It's going to be tough, but it's possible to achieve. I'm not done giving up hope on this team. There's no reason to. We've been right there in almost every single game. I think the not knowing if Lovett was going to play or not really hurt the team more than it would if they had just come out and said he was leaving the program.

I just refuse to give up on this team. I went to quite a few games last season and this is my first year as a season ticket holder and this fan base really grates me some times. It's always one extreme or the other. We give up a 10-0 run? We're getting blown out. We go on a 10-0 run, we're Final Four contenders. Since 2001, here's where we ranked in the conference standings 6/7, 5(t), 9, last, 2nd to last, 2nd to last, 10, 3rd to last, 4th to last, 4th to last, 5th, 11th, 11th, 5th, 5th, last, and 8th. We've won I believe six games in the Big East Tournament since 2001 and have never won more than one game in any particular tournament (meaning we've never had multiple wins in one tournament). We have no reason to expect this team to be nationally relevant so quickly. This turnaround was never going to happen overnight.

Quote from: fordham96 on January 15, 2018, 01:25:20 PM

Quote from: johnniesfilmmaker on January 15, 2018, 01:06:39 PM

We have taken Arizona State, Villanova, Missouri, Seton Hall, and Creighton all down to the wire in games where both teams played well. It wasn't like any of them just couldn't hit a shot or anything. They were pretty much on their games and we competed with them down to the wire. Only one of those games was a home game. Something has to be said for that. We've played four bad games. DePaul, Providence, Georgetown, and UCF. UCF was the 3rd game in 4 days in Florida. Georgetown we had one of our two best players out and our only other scoring option had the flu. DePaul we let get away at the end. I think we tend to play down to poorer competition and that's just inexperience.

The big thing is convincing Shamorie to come back next season. If we can do that, this team is going to have a special year next year. They'll have depth and better interior play both offensively and defensively. Yeah, 0-6 sucks. But we could've very easily been 16-2 with a 5-2 conference record if we had more experience and depth which is all coming next season.

Year 1 was a complete wash and shouldn't even be considered when discussing Chris Mullin.

Year 2 was a fine season in a rebuilding process.

Year 3 has had its ups and downs and we've had some pretty crucial blows. It's a snake-bitten season this year with Mussini AND Ellison leaving and transfers not eligible to play yet and then Lovett getting hurt.

These next two years are the ones where we are going to see who Mullin really is as a coach and a leader. He HAS to convince Shamorie to come back for one more year and if he can't win with that team, it's time to start thinking about the future in a new direction.

No the close losses are a mirage.  They aren't any good.

And I brought this up last year and it was a warning sign.  They were 7-11 last year but they were much closer to being 3-15 then they were 11-7.

Meaning in none if their 11 losses did they have any realistic chance of winning.   Hard to believe but they were completely non-competitive in those games. 

And perhaps that fools gold is biting them now.  Because again they were much closer to being significantly worse last year than any better.

Fordham, I usually agree with you, but this doesn't make much sense.  You are penalizing the team for losing close, hard fought games this season and penalizing them for winning close hard fought games last season?  A win is a win, most close wins or losses are ugly.   The Nova game was ugly for both teams, team with better talent and coaching ultimately won... Reality is if you are a Zona fan you care criticizing the way the team won, wasn't pretty. 

No what I'm saying is last year wasn't as much of an improvement as it may have looked on paper.  And this year I would give them more credit for some close losses if they were combined with wins.  Also I dispute the notion they have lost all of these "close" games.  My measurement is who had the lead and controlled the games throughout the 2nd half.  Except for Creighton their opponents did and once Creighton got the lead back they never gave it back.  Let's not act like SJU is losing because of fluke plays or blown late leads, they aren't.   They are constantly fighting uphill you can't expect to win those games.  Too much is being made about them not being blown out, fine.  That is not the same as being in a realistic position to win.

Give you an example.  Marquette won 10 games last year, they blew a 3 point lead with the ball under a minute at SHU last year.  They had a 6 point lead at Providence with less than 5 minutes and blew it.  Those are 2 they could argue they let get away.  SJU has not had a lead with less that 3-4 minutes left, think about.  That is why they are losing.  The fact the other team misses some free throws or does a turnover and gives SJU a chance to make it close isn't evidence SJU is closing the gap. 

Teams are always going to get beat down. But are you seriously not confident that we can be in every single game the rest of the year except maybe Nova on the road, Duke at MSG, and Xavier on the road? I think we can and should be right there with Marquette both times, Seton Hall, Butler once, Creighton, and Marquette twice. I still St. John's could get to 7 wins in conference play if they let Shamorie go to work. Attack the rim, get their bigs in foul trouble, and find a rhythm for him early. If they can do that and also press teams when they start to go on runs, I think the rest of the season will go like this;

@Xavier: L
@ Georgetown: W
Creighton: W
@Butler: L
Xavier: L
Duke: L
@Nova: L
Marquette: W
@DePaul: W
@Marquette: W
Seton Hall: W
Butler: W
@Providence: L

That'd be 7-11 in back to back years and we'd be 17-13. That would put us at a 7 or 8 seed where we could take a Big East Tournament game. You do all that and that should be good enough to make the NIT. Win a game or two in that, bring these kids back (except Lovett because I think he's definitely gone) and come back next year and contend for a Big East title and a Tournament appearance. It's going to be tough, but it's possible to achieve. I'm not done giving up hope on this team. There's no reason to. We've been right there in almost every single game. I think the not knowing if Lovett was going to play or not really hurt the team more than it would if they had just come out and said he was leaving the program.

I just refuse to give up on this team. I went to quite a few games last season and this is my first year as a season ticket holder and this fan base really grates me some times. It's always one extreme or the other. We give up a 10-0 run? We're getting blown out. We go on a 10-0 run, we're Final Four contenders. Since 2001, here's where we ranked in the conference standings 6/7, 5(t), 9, last, 2nd to last, 2nd to last, 10, 3rd to last, 4th to last, 4th to last, 5th, 11th, 11th, 5th, 5th, last, and 8th. We've won I believe six games in the Big East Tournament since 2001 and have never won more than one game in any particular tournament (meaning we've never had multiple wins in one tournament). We have no reason to expect this team to be nationally relevant so quickly. This turnaround was never going to happen overnight.

You don't have to give up on this team.  I really do hope your prognostication comes to fruition.  But, I'll have to see better play before I buy in to your scenario playing out.

Teams are always going to get beat down. But are you seriously not confident that we can be in every single game the rest of the year except maybe Nova on the road, Duke at MSG, and Xavier on the road? I think we can and should be right there with Marquette both times, Seton Hall, Butler once, Creighton, and Marquette twice. I still St. John's could get to 7 wins in conference play if they let Shamorie go to work. Attack the rim, get their bigs in foul trouble, and find a rhythm for him early. If they can do that and also press teams when they start to go on runs, I think the rest of the season will go like this;

@Xavier: L
@ Georgetown: W
Creighton: W
@Butler: L
Xavier: L
Duke: L
@Nova: L
Marquette: W
@DePaul: W
@Marquette: W
Seton Hall: W
Butler: W
@Providence: L

That'd be 7-11 in back to back years and we'd be 17-13. That would put us at a 7 or 8 seed where we could take a Big East Tournament game. You do all that and that should be good enough to make the NIT. Win a game or two in that, bring these kids back (except Lovett because I think he's definitely gone) and come back next year and contend for a Big East title and a Tournament appearance. It's going to be tough, but it's possible to achieve. I'm not done giving up hope on this team. There's no reason to. We've been right there in almost every single game. I think the not knowing if Lovett was going to play or not really hurt the team more than it would if they had just come out and said he was leaving the program.

I just refuse to give up on this team. I went to quite a few games last season and this is my first year as a season ticket holder and this fan base really grates me some times. It's always one extreme or the other. We give up a 10-0 run? We're getting blown out. We go on a 10-0 run, we're Final Four contenders. Since 2001, here's where we ranked in the conference standings 6/7, 5(t), 9, last, 2nd to last, 2nd to last, 10, 3rd to last, 4th to last, 4th to last, 5th, 11th, 11th, 5th, 5th, last, and 8th. We've won I believe six games in the Big East Tournament since 2001 and have never won more than one game in any particular tournament (meaning we've never had multiple wins in one tournament). We have no reason to expect this team to be nationally relevant so quickly. This turnaround was never going to happen overnight.

Their was never a reason for a turnaround. That happened already. We choose to take 3 steps back. Then we hired a novice and are irrelevant AGAIN.  Beatdowns are coming. Sorry you just bought tickets . When we are good which is possible, plenty of fun at the garden .
Can’t win without a coach. Currently we have Santa

Currently we have Santa

The sun resolves around eartha kitt. I may have spelled that wrong I'm on the toilet, I might have meant it revolves around Uranus. Regardless, I am always write. Gym teachers are hard, especially in the shower. This not a good team. Felix Balamous is good. Felix Balamous is bad. Clarke is not as big as many of you think. Our best players need to play. Why are bad players allowed to shoot? I think most game ares not close. Freshman make mistakes. We are not playing all freshman. Highly rated freshman should be able to Compete. I hope we win some games. If not I hope we get killed. Merry Christmas! Teams need their role players to play roles. Role players need a more defined role. Don't think our bigs are that bad.  I think st. Jean is a good coach. St. Jean, he needs help.

<80 percent of that I didn't write. Guess which 20 percent, win valuable prizes>

If we do not make the NIT next year I would bet he steps down.

If we do not make the NIT next year I would bet he steps down.

Agree that is quite possible and eliminates the unappealing "firing the legend" situation. Hopefully the core guys return, new players contribute, staff improves and they claw their way to an NCAA T bid. The thought of the SJU "brain trust" going through another coaching search is headache inducing.

Quote from: we are sju on January 16, 2018, 09:26:20 AM

If we do not make the NIT next year I would bet he steps down.

Agree that is quite possible and eliminates the unappealing "firing the legend" situation. Hopefully the core guys return, new players contribute, staff improves and they claw their way to an NCAA T bid. The thought of the SJU "brain trust" going through another coaching search is headache inducing.

That combined with the fact "he is Chris Mullin" is why I figured he would have more rope then he has been given by the people on here.
How about you Paultz, you are one of the more rational people on here. We make NIT next year, he should get more time?

The "more time" stuff has gotten old.  He does not need more time to turn this around, he needs to get a qualified staff to be with him every moment of the day on and off the court.  4 years, 5 years, 6 years, he is not going to become a better coach.  There are guys who have been around the game for 30 years, and suck at coaching.  Mullin is in his mid 50's, he is set on his ways, and those ways are leading him to what has turned out to be the worst 3 year stretch in program history outside of sanctions

Quote from: paultzman on January 16, 2018, 09:37:55 AM

Quote from: we are sju on January 16, 2018, 09:26:20 AM

If we do not make the NIT next year I would bet he steps down.

Agree that is quite possible and eliminates the unappealing "firing the legend" situation. Hopefully the core guys return, new players contribute, staff improves and they claw their way to an NCAA T bid. The thought of the SJU "brain trust" going through another coaching search is headache inducing.

That combined with the fact "he is Chris Mullin" is why I figured he would have more rope then he has been given by the people on here.
How about you Paultz, you are one of the more rational people on here. We make NIT next year, he should get more time?

If they contend all year for a bid, knock off some good teams along the way & avoid many blowouts, I find it hard to believe he wouldn't get more time. I always preferred a gym rat type coach v a SJU legend, who never coached, but, considering what he inherited, what's fair is fair.

The "more time" stuff has gotten old.  He does not need more time to turn this around, he needs to get a qualified staff to be with him every moment of the day on and off the court.  4 years, 5 years, 6 years, he is not going to become a better coach.  There are guys who have been around the game for 30 years, and suck at coaching.  Mullin is in his mid 50's, he is set on his ways, and those ways are leading him to what has turned out to be the worst 3 year stretch in program history outside of sanctions

I agree why should he get more time? A very successful program like ST John's should not have a 3 year down period. We need to get back to our Glory years which ended 26 years ago.

This isn’t a feel good story, it’s pretty simple actually. He was brought here to turn this ship around. Due to the situation that he was handed, he should have ample time to show improvements. If there hasn’t been an improvements by a certain time then there needs to be a change. What’s that time frame? People will have different opinions but for me it’s 5 years. NIT is a MUST next year, if we can’t make atleast the NIT then this has been a complete failure and he must get fired or step down.  The thought of 1 recruiter for a Big East school is absurd. I would love for him to turn it around. But people get fired for underperformance. He would be still loved as a great basketball player but a shitty coach.

Kids either want a 1 or 2 yr stop gap or the chance to go dancing. They don’t need us for a 1 or 2 yr stop so the chance to dance is the only reason. 

We were not only competitive under Lavin but made the tourney a few times(this will not turn into, "we should never of fired lavin) and our best stretch in 20 years. 

Lets give mullin more "time" cause he sucks in 3 years and by your logic, its ok to suck in 3 years, cause we have not been relevant in 26.  Makes a lot of sense.