Need players

Quote from: Marillac on January 14, 2018, 10:27:55 PM

Quote from: we are sju on January 14, 2018, 12:36:23 PM

Quote from: Marillac on January 14, 2018, 12:27:30 PM

Quote from: we are sju on January 14, 2018, 11:23:42 AM

Quote from: Moose on January 14, 2018, 11:19:48 AM

We need basketball players.  Not athletes that they feel 'might' turn into basketball players

It is 2018. The fact that every basketball team in every league in the free world is built around shooting the three  and our coach is Chris Mullin yet our best / only decent shooter is a 6-7 240 pound guy is pretty ridiculous.

We have plenty of shooters. We don't have guys that can dribble to set them up. I don't understand why that's so difficult for you to see. Clark and Simon average a turnover every three dribbles inside the three-point line. It's a crazy team when you feel the second most confidence in a reckless kid like Ahmed handling in the lane. Clark, Simon, and Owens have no body control at all and their layups look like they are trying to smash an animal's head with a big rock. They have no chance of using a jump stop, slowing down, or changing direction.

Marillac , having met you I can honestly say you are a good guy and in the past I generally  could see your point even if I didn't agree with it. So no disrespect meant when I say this year some of the stuff you are saying basketball wise is insane. Ponds thing has passed well into Carmine territory and your Simon hate is bizarre. He is clearly our 2nd best player. Flaws and all. Not even sure who could challenge that. A s far as shooting, UGH. Ponds is a very good player. Fun to watch and w/o him we might not score 25 points. He can't shoot. Statistically he is terrible and he also fails the eye test. Form is a disaster. Only guy whose outside shot I think can go in is a 6-7 guy who needs to be open with his feet completely set. I don't care if John Stockton and Magic Johnson's point guard love child came to play for us. No one is making this bunch good shooters.

Ponds just dropped 37 pts on over 50% shooting on the #1 team in the country. He did so being the only player on the team that can dribble the basketball, being forced to cover a future NBA player, and being required to be our best rebounder. His shooting mechanics are fine and his release is perfect. He front rims a lot of shots because he has no legs playing the entire game and carrying 4 dudes who can't control their bodies at all. It's a really bad sign when Ahmed is the second best dribbler inside the three point line.

Simon, Clark, and Owens take layups like they are trying to smash an animal's head with a large rock. None of those guys are capable of changing their pace or direction, utilizing a jump stop, or making a shot fake in the lane. Simon and Clark look like they are trying to throw a javelin 100 yards when they take "floaters."

Ponds just scored at will on Nova the second half and it wasn't enough because he made the mistake of passing the ball. Three times he had to get the ball back when Simon tried give it away. I think Simon's mistakes are so puzzling they catch teams off guard and his teammates are able to get it back.

Clark is shooting 43.8% on 4.1 attempts
Lovett was shooting 38.5% on 5.6 attempts
Ahmed is shooting 36% on 4.2 attempts
Owens is shooting 33.3% on 1.0 attempts
Trimble is shooting 30.0% on 2.4 attempts
Simon is shooting 50.0% on .7 attempts

And Ponds shot 38% last year on 6 attempts and has to be guarded at all
times this year regardless of his % (made three shots with his foot on the line at Nova). We're not losing because we can't shoot. We can't dribble.

Dwight Hardy shot 35.4% on 5.3 attempts when we made the tournament and he was universally considered oirnbest shooter then.

He is shooting 18% on threes.
Yes on all other shots he is a dynamic player.
For the last time Simon is a very good ballhandler.

Simon is a four. He looks terrible when he can't physically outclass his opponent. His skill level so very low.


When was the last time you saw Ponds take two set treys in a game? I always broke down my players' shooting %s to make things clear to them. Good shooters like Ponds can hit 50% of set shots taken in rhythm without hesitation. The same kids shoo between 15-22% off the bounce. Very rarely can a kid make more than 1/4. Certain kids should never be allowed to shoot off the bounce, others only enough keep defenses honest -- the basketball equivalent of a high inside fastball. Ponds never gets set shots. Clark does. Ahmed does.

Quote from: RedmenNYC on January 14, 2018, 09:33:09 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 14, 2018, 06:41:23 PM

Quote from: Poison on January 14, 2018, 11:58:13 AM

We need a high major D1 coach and high major D1 staff. A band aid is replacing a lazy staff member. The only answer is to replace them all. There is no excuse for 0-6. Everything that has stood in the way of St.John’s winning games is on the staff.

Enough is enough. I’m not interested in waiting to see if Chris Mullin is willing to accept that he’s not cut out for this. The braintrust that hired him is pathetic. They have no idea what they’re doing, but at St.John’s should we expect anything more? This is what this institution is. One big red shit storm.

Yes

No and no for both of you.

Why should he be retained as coach? What has he done that has earned him that as a coach?

He hasn't earned it.  We all know that. 
But is canning him the better bet? I doubt it.
I'm sure the AD and school doubts it as well. 
So I'm sure I'd win a bet that if you want make one that he comes back.

But, repeating myself, like everyone else does on this board:

The best best for potential positive returns, is to see what the staff can do with a full roster.
There have been times of pretty basketball this season. Played #1 Nova and Az St. close.
Next year's roster looks balanced and more promising.

Why fire Mullin? It'd just be out of spite - and the wrong decision.
You get upside / optionality of it turning around next year!
What's the big deal of waiting one or two more years with Mullin?

If team is terrible two seasons from now - then at least you demonstrated loyalty to any coach you bring in after.

You guys all love to fire people right away - it makes no sense.

What would you do? Fire Mullin, destroy the roster, and pray for a miracle with the next coach?  It's so obvious to me that that you should at least put in your back pocket of the optionality of next year and the season after, of turning it around... if it doesn't, then you can Mullin, and then you just go with your choice of bringing someone else in.

Why should he be retained as coach? 

Because Norm Roberts got 6 years.

Simon has 48 turnovers in 624 minutes
Ponds has 37 turnovers in 610 minutes

They differ in turnovers by .5 a game.

Simon leads the team in assists and has an almost 2 to 1 assist/turnover ratio.  He is simply not the turnover machine you make him out to be.  Bad mouth his dribbling all you want but we've had worse.

Quote from: Poison on January 14, 2018, 10:02:55 PM

Why should he be retained as coach? 

Because Norm Roberts got 6 years.

Ok, so we should draw hope from the 6 terrible seasons we had with Norm Roberts?

Quote from: Poison on January 14, 2018, 10:02:55 PM

Quote from: RedmenNYC on January 14, 2018, 09:33:09 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 14, 2018, 06:41:23 PM

Quote from: Poison on January 14, 2018, 11:58:13 AM

We need a high major D1 coach and high major D1 staff. A band aid is replacing a lazy staff member. The only answer is to replace them all. There is no excuse for 0-6. Everything that has stood in the way of St.John’s winning games is on the staff.

Enough is enough. I’m not interested in waiting to see if Chris Mullin is willing to accept that he’s not cut out for this. The braintrust that hired him is pathetic. They have no idea what they’re doing, but at St.John’s should we expect anything more? This is what this institution is. One big red shit storm.

Yes

No and no for both of you.

Why should he be retained as coach? What has he done that has earned him that as a coach?

He hasn't earned it.  We all know that. 
But is canning him the better bet? I doubt it.
I'm sure the AD and school doubts it as well. 
So I'm sure I'd win a bet that if you want make one that he comes back.

But, repeating myself, like everyone else does on this board:

The best best for potential positive returns, is to see what the staff can do with a full roster.
There have been times of pretty basketball this season. Played #1 Nova and Az St. close.
Next year's roster looks balanced and more promising.

Why fire Mullin? It'd just be out of spite - and the wrong decision.
You get upside / optionality of it turning around next year!
What's the big deal of waiting one or two more years with Mullin?

If team is terrible two seasons from now - then at least you demonstrated loyalty to any coach you bring in after.

You guys all love to fire people right away - it makes no sense.

What would you do? Fire Mullin, destroy the roster, and pray for a miracle with the next coach?  It's so obvious to me that that you should at least put in your back pocket of the optionality of next year and the season after, of turning it around... if it doesn't, then you can Mullin, and then you just go with your choice of bringing someone else in.

I don’t want to know what the University thinks. I think that they don’t think and that’s the problem. They’ve made a horrible choice. Best thing they can do now is move on and this time take themselves out of the decision making process. Clearly, they are completely clueless.

If LoVett leaves for good after the season and Ponds bolts for the pros or transfers, there is no one else to worry about. What roster destruction are we worried about at that point? The program is a joke now. Let them be a joke for two or theee years with a coach that actually coaches. I would vote to cut our losses now. 8-34 is 8-34.

Simon has 48 turnovers in 624 minutes
Ponds has 37 turnovers in 610 minutes

They differ in turnovers by .5 a game.

Simon leads the team in assists and has an almost 2 to 1 assist/turnover ratio.  He is simply not the turnover machine you make him out to be.  Bad mouth his dribbling all you want but we've had worse.

Ponds dribbles the ball in traffic 10x more. He's also defended by the opposing team's best perimeter defender and is the focal point of every defensive game plan. Every coach in the Big East wants Simon handling the ball and taking it to the lane. He dribbles the ball between his chest and chin. Also nobody cheats off of Ponds when Simon takes it. Everyone leaves their man to stop Ponds.

Simon is the basketball equivalent of a boxer that can only throw a heavy overhand. He doesn't have the skill to read a defender and make a counter move like Ponds. He doesn't change his pace or control his body in the lane in any way. He drives 100 miles per hour and picks up his dribble outside of the FT line extended and then makes some crazy leap to the basket. It works against lesser athletes but he looks like a fool against comparably athletic players. He telegraphs his moves like a boxer who can only knock people out.

Comparing Simon to Ponds as a lead guard is crazy. Simon is a face-up four. He should be playing the same role for us that Dom did as a senior. We won 7 league games with Ellison as a true soph last year and were 0-6 with this kid as our second option handling the ball in spite of him being a superior defender and rebounder to Ellison. He makes Ellison look like Tim Hardaway.

You people jump all over me when I declared this a lost season over the summer due to lack of ball-handling and when were 0-6 in the league because nobody can dribble you want  to act like  Simon is a great PG? We'd have 14 wins with Malik Boothe. I watched Ponds school Nova play after play last night and then in a 90 second span saw Simon pick up his dribble for no reason twice around half court, jump, and then throw the ball off the shoulder of a stationary Nova defender and then right off the hands of a stationary Nova defender. Both passes were recovered by Johnnies and don't show up in the stat sheet anywhere but were worse than any of the four turnovers he had charged to him last night. He did the same thing at UCF, ASU, and countless other times. He freezes up. Look at his FT form!!! Does that strike you as a kid that has skill or coordination?

Our front court is somehow the strongest part of this team and it sucks.

Quote from: Poison on January 14, 2018, 10:02:55 PM

Why should he be retained as coach? 

Because Norm Roberts got 6 years.

Don't think Mullin should be fired but your argument is poor because you are supposed to learn from your mistakes. We stuck with Norm too long when it was obvious he couldn't be a head coach because Harrington was busy with other matters to put it politely.

Simon has 48 turnovers in 624 minutes
Ponds has 37 turnovers in 610 minutes

They differ in turnovers by .5 a game.

Simon leads the team in assists and has an almost 2 to 1 assist/turnover ratio.  He is simply not the turnover machine you make him out to be.  Bad mouth his dribbling all you want but we've had worse.

Let me ask you this, Carmine: what is our record of we replace Ponds with a second Simon? What about if we had two Shamories and no Simon? I say 0-6 and 5-1, respectively.

I don't dislike Simon. I want him playing a different role. I know that's not feasible this year but let's also not act like that's not the reason we can't win this year.

Marillac killing it. Been saying for a while Simon should play the 4 on offense. Eliminates his help defender and puts him in a better position to score. He is a very good passer because of his height and vision, not because of his break down ability.

Marillac killing it. Been saying for a while Simon should play the 4 on offense. Eliminates his help defender and puts him in a better position to score. He is a very good passer because of his height and vision, not because of his break down ability.

No he is out of his mind. Simon rebounds well because he is coming in from the guard spot or the wing. If he played the four would be manhandled. Plus he is just saying Simon can't dribble so that it makes Ponds better. He is also inventing his own stats. Surprised Fun has not eviscerated him yet .

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 15, 2018, 12:33:30 AM

Quote from: Poison on January 14, 2018, 10:02:55 PM

Why should he be retained as coach? 

Because Norm Roberts got 6 years.

Don't think Mullin should be fired but your argument is poor because you are supposed to learn from your mistakes. We stuck with Norm too long when it was obvious he couldn't be a head coach because Harrington was busy with other matters to put it politely.

The only coach we ever fired after 3 years was the guy that replaced Louie so we could bring Louie back. Yes so I do think Mullin does deserve more time than Frank what's his name and at least as much as Brian Mahoney. Again funny same people who are killing Lovett for disloyalty don't think Mullin deserves any special consideration. Well Marillac is killing Lovett for not being good because he is in love with Ponds.

Simon's stats and overall play would be a lot better if we had another ball handler/shooter playing alongside him....

The guy is truly the least of our problems.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on January 15, 2018, 08:07:47 AM

Marillac killing it. Been saying for a while Simon should play the 4 on offense. Eliminates his help defender and puts him in a better position to score. He is a very good passer because of his height and vision, not because of his break down ability.

No he is out of his mind. Simon rebounds well because he is coming in from the guard spot or the wing. If he played the four would be manhandled. Plus he is just saying Simon can't dribble so that it makes Ponds better. He is also inventing his own stats. Surprised Fun has not eviscerated him yet .

False. Simon is our best post defender, and he doesn't rebound from the wing at all! He averages only 1.7 offensive boards per game, and as far as I can tell most of those are off his own missed chippies. 9 times this season he has had 0 or 1 offensive boards. That is inexcusable for a kid with his athletic ability and a 7'3 wingspan. He should be averaging 3.5 per game.

I like the way he passes. I think he has excellent vision, but he needs to be passing hi-lo or out of the post. Let him get some takes against opposing fours and fives when the court is spaced. And take away Clark's driving privileges for good while we're at it.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on January 15, 2018, 08:07:47 AM

Marillac killing it. Been saying for a while Simon should play the 4 on offense. Eliminates his help defender and puts him in a better position to score. He is a very good passer because of his height and vision, not because of his break down ability.

No he is out of his mind. Simon rebounds well because he is coming in from the guard spot or the wing. If he played the four would be manhandled. Plus he is just saying Simon can't dribble so that it makes Ponds better. He is also inventing his own stats. Surprised Fun has not eviscerated him yet .

Fun has called Simon out for his absurd turnovers in his postgame writeups. I doubt he would argue Simon is a guard at all. He's Dom Pointer 2.0 but with a longer wingspan and 20 lbs of muscle. The kid is seriously impressive bodying guys in the post.

Put the kids in the right spots. Run a passing based inside-out offense through Simon.

Quote from: we are sju on January 15, 2018, 09:24:51 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on January 15, 2018, 08:07:47 AM

Marillac killing it. Been saying for a while Simon should play the 4 on offense. Eliminates his help defender and puts him in a better position to score. He is a very good passer because of his height and vision, not because of his break down ability.

No he is out of his mind. Simon rebounds well because he is coming in from the guard spot or the wing. If he played the four would be manhandled. Plus he is just saying Simon can't dribble so that it makes Ponds better. He is also inventing his own stats. Surprised Fun has not eviscerated him yet .

Fun has called Simon out for his absurd turnovers in his postgame writeups. I doubt he would argue Simon is a guard at all. He's Dom Pointer 2.0 but with a longer wingspan and 20 lbs of muscle. The kid is seriously impressive bodying guys in the post.

Put the kids in the right spots. Run a passing based inside-out offense through Simon.

I think post-LoVett injury, the coaching staff has failed to put him in positions to maximize his potential. I cringe every time he takes a shot that's not in the paint. But it's also hard for me to picture him being in a great position to succeed with such a lack of depth on this roster, and Ponds' consistent struggles from 3.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on January 15, 2018, 08:07:47 AM

Marillac killing it. Been saying for a while Simon should play the 4 on offense. Eliminates his help defender and puts him in a better position to score. He is a very good passer because of his height and vision, not because of his break down ability.

No he is out of his mind. Simon rebounds well because he is coming in from the guard spot or the wing. If he played the four would be manhandled. Plus he is just saying Simon can't dribble so that it makes Ponds better. He is also inventing his own stats. Surprised Fun has not eviscerated him yet .

Him playing the 4 on OFFENSE  does not take away from his rebounding from the wing what so ever.  Clark plays on the peremiter on offense but guards the 4 on defense. Vice versa for Simon.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on January 15, 2018, 08:07:47 AM

Marillac killing it. Been saying for a while Simon should play the 4 on offense. Eliminates his help defender and puts him in a better position to score. He is a very good passer because of his height and vision, not because of his break down ability.

No he is out of his mind. Simon rebounds well because he is coming in from the guard spot or the wing. If he played the four would be manhandled. Plus he is just saying Simon can't dribble so that it makes Ponds better. He is also inventing his own stats. Surprised Fun has not eviscerated him yet .

Unfortunately there is no known cure for Mullin Derangement Syndrome ®

Quote from: Celtics11 on January 15, 2018, 01:21:27 AM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 15, 2018, 12:33:30 AM

Quote from: Poison on January 14, 2018, 10:02:55 PM

Why should he be retained as coach? 

Because Norm Roberts got 6 years.

Don't think Mullin should be fired but your argument is poor because you are supposed to learn from your mistakes. We stuck with Norm too long when it was obvious he couldn't be a head coach because Harrington was busy with other matters to put it politely.

The only coach we ever fired after 3 years was the guy that replaced Louie so we could bring Louie back. Yes so I do think Mullin does deserve more time than Frank what's his name and at least as much as Brian Mahoney. Again funny same people who are killing Lovett for disloyalty don't think Mullin deserves any special consideration. Well Marillac is killing Lovett for not being good because he is in love with Ponds.

If they fire Mullin ( and I don't think they will ) This program is over. What recruit in his right mind would come to a school that is so screwed up that they had to fire the face of the school after going through 5 -6 coaches in a few years.

Quote from: we are sju on January 15, 2018, 09:24:51 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on January 15, 2018, 08:07:47 AM

Marillac killing it. Been saying for a while Simon should play the 4 on offense. Eliminates his help defender and puts him in a better position to score. He is a very good passer because of his height and vision, not because of his break down ability.

No he is out of his mind. Simon rebounds well because he is coming in from the guard spot or the wing. If he played the four would be manhandled. Plus he is just saying Simon can't dribble so that it makes Ponds better. He is also inventing his own stats. Surprised Fun has not eviscerated him yet .

Him playing the 4 on OFFENSE  does not take away from his rebounding from the wing what so ever.  Clark plays on the peremiter on offense but guards the 4 on defense. Vice versa for Simon.

So you are going to have him post up? Play down low? His penetration up top is our 2nd best offense after Ponds driving the ball. Let me here some more stats on how Ponds is a good outside shooter. On night's that it is over 50 degrees in HS he shot 35% from three?