The Perfect Coach for ST John's

Quote from: Johnny23 on January 19, 2018, 01:45:47 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 19, 2018, 01:28:42 PM

If you are disappointed. You haven’t been watching. I was disappointed 2 years ago. Only 0-7. More beatdowns coming. Modest change or no change = same shit

No doubt and Mullin has failed in meeting the most modest of expectations this year. Regression.

If all you consider is winning games this year has been close to a disaster. If you broaden the scope of the inquiry he's managed to balance the roster and amass some pretty good talent.  Assuming no defections to Arizona, this is next year's roster

Marvin Clark(Sr)
Tariq Owens(Sr)
Kassaum Yakwe(Sr)

Marcus Lovett(Jr)
Shamorie Ponds(Jr) ****
Justin Simon(Jr) *****

Mikey Dixon(soph) (MAAC Rookie of the Year)
Sedee Keita(soph) ****
Bryan Trimble(soph) ***

J'raan Brooks(fresh) ****
Boubacar Diakite(fresh) ***
Josh Roberts(fresh) ***
Greg Williams(fresh) ****

Six upperclassmen, seven underclassmen. Six guards, seven forwards. As opposed to what the last couple of coaches managed, which guaranteed a rebuild every four years. Maybe he's completely over his head and knows nothing about basketball and all the talent in the world won't help him. I'm hoping he's the next Will Brown. #fingerscrossed

Yeah the roster does look really good on paper and I hope you're right.

Quote from: Johnny23 on January 19, 2018, 01:45:47 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 19, 2018, 01:28:42 PM

If you are disappointed. You haven’t been watching. I was disappointed 2 years ago. Only 0-7. More beatdowns coming. Modest change or no change = same shit

No doubt and Mullin has failed in meeting the most modest of expectations this year. Regression.

If all you consider is winning games this year has been close to a disaster. If you broaden the scope of the inquiry he's managed to balance the roster and amass some pretty good talent.  Assuming no defections to Arizona, this is next year's roster

Marvin Clark(Sr)
Tariq Owens(Sr)
Kassaum Yakwe(Sr)

Marcus Lovett(Jr)
Shamorie Ponds(Jr) ****
Justin Simon(Jr) *****

Mikey Dixon(soph) (MAAC Rookie of the Year)
Sedee Keita(soph) ****
Bryan Trimble(soph) ***

J'raan Brooks(fresh) ****
Boubacar Diakite(fresh) ***
Josh Roberts(fresh) ***
Greg Williams(fresh) ****

Six upperclassmen, seven underclassmen. Six guards, seven forwards. As opposed to what the last couple of coaches managed, which guaranteed a rebuild every four years. Maybe he's completely over his head and knows nothing about basketball and all the talent in the world won't help him. I'm hoping he's the next Will Brown. #fingerscrossed

Eh it's OK talent.  I expected more.  Rawle Alkins, Mustapha Heron etc...And the failure to land a lot of key recruits over the first 3 classes, a number of transfers and the taking in a lot of transfers who have to sit a year has led to him needing his 4th full year before he has a full roster.  Most of the stuff that caused it is on him and the staff, especially losing Slice.  I other words if he had done a better job he could have achieved that at least a year earlier.

And yes a balanced roster on paper sounds good but it is a bit overrated.  First off no one believes that the roster will look the same as you just stated come next season.  We all know a few changes will inevitably happen.  Also the staff has tried  to land big time 1 and done recruits and still are.  So they aren't necessarily always worried about balance because they would need to replace those freshman immediately.  Recruit better EVERY year and roster balance/imbalance is not that big of a deal.

But again it is a pretty good roster on paper, but I am more worried about talent level and ability to contribute right away then simply having 4 freshmen, 4 seniors etc.  And I'll give him some credit but the fact is much of the reason we had to wait this long into next year is because of some of the bad choices and bad recruiting he did earlier.  That is on him.

Eh it's OK talent.  I expected more.

Eh well, not being a Kentucky fan I'm happy with a half a dozen four and five star recruits and being a St John's fan I'm accustomed to less. If the talent's just okay it'd be hard for anyone to compete in one of the top conferences in the country, much less someone who has no benefit of the doubt left. If a couple five top 100 recruits just won't cut it. I'll adjust my expectations downward accordingly.

The key to next year is retaining our players and recruits.

Benefit of the doubt. Foady- u like stats. I am not looking it up, but from memory we got killed last year. Most of the cult was happy that our coach was paying attention. Look up scoring margins especially the 1st half in big east games. We got absolutely destroyed. Every loss was an absolute beat down. Second halves teams calmed down. Except in the big east- nova dropped 108 points .
How do you give up 108 points in a college basketball game ? How many times did we give 90 points? What team does that?
Plenty of season left. The pro Mullin argument should expect to see improvement. Not benefit of the doubt. Not passes. Not Rome wasn’t built in a day. Not trust the process. Certainly not cupards. This is not CYO . Produce or leave
Season is half over - we still have 5 and 4 star players- jerry wainwright had that? Oliver Purnell lost withguys like that
We play Georgetown And creighton this week- winning both should be possible-

The key to next year is retaining our players and recruits.

Most important signee for next year is an assistant who knows what he is doing

If Matt was not so one dimensional he would be perfect! Someone from within who loves St.John's.

Benefit of the doubt. Foady- u like stats. I am not looking it up, but from memory we got killed last year. Most of the cult was happy that our coach was paying attention. Look up scoring margins especially the 1st half in big east games. We got absolutely destroyed. Every loss was an absolute beat down. Second halves teams calmed down. Except in the big east- nova dropped 108 points .
How do you give up 108 points in a college basketball game ? How many times did we give 90 points? What team does that?
Plenty of season left. The pro Mullin argument should expect to see improvement. Not benefit of the doubt. Not passes. Not Rome wasn’t built in a day. Not trust the process. Certainly not cupards. This is not CYO . Produce or leave
Season is half over - we still have 5 and 4 star players- jerry wainwright had that? Oliver Purnell lost withguys like that
We play Georgetown And creighton this week- winning both should be possible-

Although I appreciate your  rehashing it , I'm aware of what happened last year. And I'm not not so senile that I'm even aware of what happened this year. This year sucked after December. I cannot predict what happens next year, but I hope it's better. I hope they win tomorrow, they've been playing hard, they deserve a win. I hope they win out. That's not likely, but I hope it happens.

What do you hope they do? My spidey sense tells me you hope they lose a bunch of games so you can sat I told you so.

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 19, 2018, 05:35:49 PM

Benefit of the doubt. Foady- u like stats. I am not looking it up, but from memory we got killed last year. Most of the cult was happy that our coach was paying attention. Look up scoring margins especially the 1st half in big east games. We got absolutely destroyed. Every loss was an absolute beat down. Second halves teams calmed down. Except in the big east- nova dropped 108 points .
How do you give up 108 points in a college basketball game ? How many times did we give 90 points? What team does that?
Plenty of season left. The pro Mullin argument should expect to see improvement. Not benefit of the doubt. Not passes. Not Rome wasn’t built in a day. Not trust the process. Certainly not cupards. This is not CYO . Produce or leave
Season is half over - we still have 5 and 4 star players- jerry wainwright had that? Oliver Purnell lost withguys like that
We play Georgetown And creighton this week- winning both should be possible-

Although I appreciate your  rehashing it , I'm aware of what happened last year. And I'm not not so senile that I'm even aware of what happened this year. This year sucked after December. I cannot predict what happens next year, but I hope it's better. I hope they win tomorrow, they've been playing hard, they deserve a win. I hope they win out. That's not likely, but I hope it happens.

What do you hope they do? My spidey sense tells me you hope they lose a bunch of games so you can sat I told you so.

No self respecting St.John’s fan wants to see us lose.

But you know what I think the board might find refreshing after listening to you rip Coach Lavin from the minute he began at St.John’s?

You can admit that you were wrong. Not just a little wrong, but undeniably wrong,

Mullin is the worst coach in the history of St.John’s basketball.

But you know what I think the board might find refreshing after listening to you rip Coach Lavin from the minute he began at St.John’s?

You can admit that you were wrong. Not just a little wrong, but undeniably wrong,

Actually stupid, I didn't rip Lavin from the day he was hired. Quite the contrary. As regular readers of my popular blog will remember, when Lavin was hired I announced that I was moving the day I was lucky enough to marry my delightful bride down from number two to number three on the list of the greatest days of my life. Originally my wedding day was was number one - I mean you have to say that to keep the peace, actually the greatest day of my life involved several bottles of tequila and two young sisters fresh off the bus from Cinco Esquinas but that's not the kind of thing you discuss in polite company -  but then I won a national handicapping contest sponsored by the Daily Racing Form by picking the winner of the Breeder's Cup Classic in 2001, so that moved her down to two, and then then day Lavin was hired I told her she'd become number three, that's how happy I was thinking that by hiring an actual basketball coach my beloved Redmen were going to become nationally prominent again. That was before I realized that Lavin was less a basketball coach than a mentally ill snake oil saleman. Not being a completely gullible rube from Scarsdale I moved Mrs Fun back to number two and we've lived happily ever after since then. How's your life life? I'm guessing it involves a lot of self loathing and hand lotion.

Quote from: fordham96 on January 19, 2018, 05:07:45 PM

Eh it's OK talent.  I expected more.

Eh well, not being a Kentucky fan I'm happy with a half a dozen four and five star recruits and being a St John's fan I'm accustomed to less. If the talent's just okay it'd be hard for anyone to compete in one of the top conferences in the country, much less someone who has no benefit of the doubt left. If a couple five top 100 recruits just won't cut it. I'll adjust my expectations downward accordingly.

Come on.  They didn't go after Barry Rohrssen with large sums of money and pry him away from UK so we could go after Mikey Dixon from Quinnipiac..  Not to mention the fact that at his introductory press conference Chris said if there is a top NY/NJ area kid SJU needs to land him.  SJU went after almost every top 20 kid the last 3 years and landed none of them (Ponds was nice but not in the class of those kids I named earlier).

The fact is a solid assistant off of a major program hired as a HC, a lower level HC with some experience hired as HC or even Lavin could have recruited the same or equivalent roster in 4 years.  Doesn't mean it can't be good but stop acting like the alternative is UK or Duke.  Villanova is not UK or Duke and they can get Brunson, Spellman etc....

Again it is certainly not a bad roster but I see a lot of kids that will need to develop and no real impact freshmen recruits.  And I can tell you certain staff members months ago were hyping this incoming class  in anticipation of landing kids like Reid, Muhammad etc...that wasn't me that was the staff talking to local scribes...

Quote from: Foad on January 19, 2018, 05:16:05 PM

Quote from: fordham96 on January 19, 2018, 05:07:45 PM

Eh it's OK talent.  I expected more.

Eh well, not being a Kentucky fan I'm happy with a half a dozen four and five star recruits and being a St John's fan I'm accustomed to less. If the talent's just okay it'd be hard for anyone to compete in one of the top conferences in the country, much less someone who has no benefit of the doubt left. If a couple five top 100 recruits just won't cut it. I'll adjust my expectations downward accordingly.

Come on.  They didn't go after Barry Rohrssen with large sums of money and pry him away from UK so we could go after Mikey Dixon from Quinnipiac..  Not to mention the fact that at his introductory press conference Chris said if there is a top NY/NJ area kid SJU needs to land him.  SJU went after almost every top 20 kid the last 3 years and landed none of them (Ponds was nice but not in the class of those kids I named earlier).

The fact is a solid assistant off of a major program hired as a HC, a lower level HC with some experience hired as HC or even Lavin could have recruited the same or equivalent roster in 4 years.  Doesn't mean it can't be good but stop acting like the alternative is UK or Duke.  Villanova is not UK or Duke and they can get Brunson, Spellman etc....

Again it is certainly not a bad roster but I see a lot of kids that will need to develop and no real impact freshmen recruits.  And I can tell you certain staff members months ago were hyping this incoming class  in anticipation of landing kids like Reid, Muhammad etc...that wasn't me that was the staff talking to local scribes...

Same guy who asked for a raise

Quote from: fordham96 on January 19, 2018, 09:40:16 PM

Quote from: Foad on January 19, 2018, 05:16:05 PM

Quote from: fordham96 on January 19, 2018, 05:07:45 PM

Eh it's OK talent.  I expected more.

Eh well, not being a Kentucky fan I'm happy with a half a dozen four and five star recruits and being a St John's fan I'm accustomed to less. If the talent's just okay it'd be hard for anyone to compete in one of the top conferences in the country, much less someone who has no benefit of the doubt left. If a couple five top 100 recruits just won't cut it. I'll adjust my expectations downward accordingly.

Come on.  They didn't go after Barry Rohrssen with large sums of money and pry him away from UK so we could go after Mikey Dixon from Quinnipiac..  Not to mention the fact that at his introductory press conference Chris said if there is a top NY/NJ area kid SJU needs to land him.  SJU went after almost every top 20 kid the last 3 years and landed none of them (Ponds was nice but not in the class of those kids I named earlier).

The fact is a solid assistant off of a major program hired as a HC, a lower level HC with some experience hired as HC or even Lavin could have recruited the same or equivalent roster in 4 years.  Doesn't mean it can't be good but stop acting like the alternative is UK or Duke.  Villanova is not UK or Duke and they can get Brunson, Spellman etc....

Again it is certainly not a bad roster but I see a lot of kids that will need to develop and no real impact freshmen recruits.  And I can tell you certain staff members months ago were hyping this incoming class  in anticipation of landing kids like Reid, Muhammad etc...that wasn't me that was the staff talking to local scribes...

Same guy who asked for a raise

Same guy who can't do anything else besides recruit.  A modern day Vinny Cerrato, he ain't.

Quote from: Marco Baldi on January 19, 2018, 09:52:12 PM

Quote from: fordham96 on January 19, 2018, 09:40:16 PM

Quote from: Foad on January 19, 2018, 05:16:05 PM

Quote from: fordham96 on January 19, 2018, 05:07:45 PM

Eh it's OK talent.  I expected more.

Eh well, not being a Kentucky fan I'm happy with a half a dozen four and five star recruits and being a St John's fan I'm accustomed to less. If the talent's just okay it'd be hard for anyone to compete in one of the top conferences in the country, much less someone who has no benefit of the doubt left. If a couple five top 100 recruits just won't cut it. I'll adjust my expectations downward accordingly.

Come on.  They didn't go after Barry Rohrssen with large sums of money and pry him away from UK so we could go after Mikey Dixon from Quinnipiac..  Not to mention the fact that at his introductory press conference Chris said if there is a top NY/NJ area kid SJU needs to land him.  SJU went after almost every top 20 kid the last 3 years and landed none of them (Ponds was nice but not in the class of those kids I named earlier).

The fact is a solid assistant off of a major program hired as a HC, a lower level HC with some experience hired as HC or even Lavin could have recruited the same or equivalent roster in 4 years.  Doesn't mean it can't be good but stop acting like the alternative is UK or Duke.  Villanova is not UK or Duke and they can get Brunson, Spellman etc....

Again it is certainly not a bad roster but I see a lot of kids that will need to develop and no real impact freshmen recruits.  And I can tell you certain staff members months ago were hyping this incoming class  in anticipation of landing kids like Reid, Muhammad etc...that wasn't me that was the staff talking to local scribes...

Same guy who asked for a raise

Same guy who can't do anything else besides recruit.  A modern day Vinny Cerrato, he ain't.

But he went to St. John's, so he gets a pass. And a raise

Just to be clear my point is not to bash a person on the staff or anyone on the staff.  My only point is again to put that roster into perspective when you take a look at the staff almost 3  years ago and who they hired and who they were targetting wrt recruits and who they ultimately landed.

I have to believe the average fan would have thought SJU would have had 2-3 or more local top 10-20 kids on this roster  by then and maybe a few other high impact recruits. Instead they essentially landed none of the highly touted kids, went the transfer route and picked up some kids that are solid and projects...I'm sorry I expected more because again I think plenty of potential HC candidates could have recruited that roster.

Just to be clear my point is not to bash a person on the staff or anyone on the staff.  My only point is again to put that roster into perspective when you take a look at the staff almost 3  years ago and who they hired and who they were targetting wrt recruits and who they ultimately landed.

I have to believe the average fan would have thought SJU would have had 2-3 or more local top 10-20 kids on this roster  by then and maybe a few other high impact recruits. Instead they essentially landed none of the highly touted kids, went the transfer route and picked up some kids that are solid and projects...I'm sorry I expected more because again I think plenty of potential HC candidates could have recruited that roster.

Mullin has landed less local talent than Norm Roberts.

Quote from: Poison on January 19, 2018, 08:35:03 PM

But you know what I think the board might find refreshing after listening to you rip Coach Lavin from the minute he began at St.John’s?

You can admit that you were wrong. Not just a little wrong, but undeniably wrong,

Actually stupid, I didn't rip Lavin from the day he was hired. Quite the contrary. As regular readers of my popular blog will remember, when Lavin was hired I announced that I was moving the day I was lucky enough to marry my delightful bride down from number two to number three on the list of the greatest days of my life. Originally my wedding day was was number one - I mean you have to say that to keep the peace, actually the greatest day of my life involved several bottles of tequila and two young sisters fresh off the bus from Cinco Esquinas but that's not the kind of thing you discuss in polite company -  but then I won a national handicapping contest sponsored by the Daily Racing Form by picking the winner of the Breeder's Cup Classic in 2001, so that moved her down to two, and then then day Lavin was hired I told her she'd become number three, that's how happy I was thinking that by hiring an actual basketball coach my beloved Redmen were going to become nationally prominent again. That was before I realized that Lavin was less a basketball coach than a mentally ill snake oil saleman. Not being a completely gullible rube from Scarsdale I moved Mrs Fun back to number two and we've lived happily ever after since then. How's your life life? I'm guessing it involves a lot of self loathing and hand lotion.

8-35

Quote from: wpc77 on January 19, 2018, 10:00:46 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on January 19, 2018, 09:52:12 PM

Quote from: fordham96 on January 19, 2018, 09:40:16 PM

Quote from: Foad on January 19, 2018, 05:16:05 PM

Quote from: fordham96 on January 19, 2018, 05:07:45 PM

Eh it's OK talent.  I expected more.

Eh well, not being a Kentucky fan I'm happy with a half a dozen four and five star recruits and being a St John's fan I'm accustomed to less. If the talent's just okay it'd be hard for anyone to compete in one of the top conferences in the country, much less someone who has no benefit of the doubt left. If a couple five top 100 recruits just won't cut it. I'll adjust my expectations downward accordingly.

Come on.  They didn't go after Barry Rohrssen with large sums of money and pry him away from UK so we could go after Mikey Dixon from Quinnipiac..  Not to mention the fact that at his introductory press conference Chris said if there is a top NY/NJ area kid SJU needs to land him.  SJU went after almost every top 20 kid the last 3 years and landed none of them (Ponds was nice but not in the class of those kids I named earlier).

The fact is a solid assistant off of a major program hired as a HC, a lower level HC with some experience hired as HC or even Lavin could have recruited the same or equivalent roster in 4 years.  Doesn't mean it can't be good but stop acting like the alternative is UK or Duke.  Villanova is not UK or Duke and they can get Brunson, Spellman etc....

Again it is certainly not a bad roster but I see a lot of kids that will need to develop and no real impact freshmen recruits.  And I can tell you certain staff members months ago were hyping this incoming class  in anticipation of landing kids like Reid, Muhammad etc...that wasn't me that was the staff talking to local scribes...

Same guy who asked for a raise

Same guy who can't do anything else besides recruit.  A modern day Vinny Cerrato, he ain't.

But he went to St. John's, so he gets a pass. And a raise

I don't get this idea of "he gets a pass.." From who?  He is an assistant he works for and is chosen by the HC.  Again much like the argument of hiring an assistant, if you have a problem  with the staff than you have a problem with the HC and that who is ultimately the problem. 

I work and live near Davidson College in NC and occasionally go to games.  Not a fan, but just go for the basketball.

Went to the Davidson - St. Bonaventure game tonight.

What stood out to me after reflecting on St. John's all season is the difference in what a well coached basketball team looks like. Bob McKillop has a great program.  They play outstanding team ball.  Balls moves crisply, looking to find the man with the best look at the basket.  There were no noticeable attempts at trying to make ESPN highlight reel, isolation ball etc.   Team shot 43% from 3, 93% for FT line etc.    Even St. Bonaventure was well coached.  Sure some of these guys may be a step to slow or inch to short, but there were a few guys that clearly could cut it in "power conferences. 

On another note, for a 5K arena, Davidson's place is really nice, and seat backs throughout are a pleasure.   Couple this with a nice student section who was loud out of the gate.    Even St. Bonaventure had a strong fan base that seemed 200+ strong and they were loud from the whistle too.  I come up to NY for several St. John's games a year and this experience is night and day.   About the only thing better is the dance team and the better music.

For me, it's just clear we need to do better in all areas.... coaching, recruiting, fan base, investment in program or just face reality that this program is living 30+ years on the past.

Quote from: Marco Baldi on January 19, 2018, 10:08:15 PM

Quote from: wpc77 on January 19, 2018, 10:00:46 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on January 19, 2018, 09:52:12 PM

Quote from: fordham96 on January 19, 2018, 09:40:16 PM

Quote from: Foad on January 19, 2018, 05:16:05 PM

Quote from: fordham96 on January 19, 2018, 05:07:45 PM

Eh it's OK talent.  I expected more.

Eh well, not being a Kentucky fan I'm happy with a half a dozen four and five star recruits and being a St John's fan I'm accustomed to less. If the talent's just okay it'd be hard for anyone to compete in one of the top conferences in the country, much less someone who has no benefit of the doubt left. If a couple five top 100 recruits just won't cut it. I'll adjust my expectations downward accordingly.

Come on.  They didn't go after Barry Rohrssen with large sums of money and pry him away from UK so we could go after Mikey Dixon from Quinnipiac..  Not to mention the fact that at his introductory press conference Chris said if there is a top NY/NJ area kid SJU needs to land him.  SJU went after almost every top 20 kid the last 3 years and landed none of them (Ponds was nice but not in the class of those kids I named earlier).

The fact is a solid assistant off of a major program hired as a HC, a lower level HC with some experience hired as HC or even Lavin could have recruited the same or equivalent roster in 4 years.  Doesn't mean it can't be good but stop acting like the alternative is UK or Duke.  Villanova is not UK or Duke and they can get Brunson, Spellman etc....

Again it is certainly not a bad roster but I see a lot of kids that will need to develop and no real impact freshmen recruits.  And I can tell you certain staff members months ago were hyping this incoming class  in anticipation of landing kids like Reid, Muhammad etc...that wasn't me that was the staff talking to local scribes...

Same guy who asked for a raise

Same guy who can't do anything else besides recruit.  A modern day Vinny Cerrato, he ain't.

But he went to St. John's, so he gets a pass. And a raise

I don't get this idea of "he gets a pass.." From who?  He is an assistant he works for and is chosen by the HC.  Again much like the argument of hiring an assistant, if you have a problem  with the staff than you have a problem with the HC and that who is ultimately the problem. 

Matt is supposedly known for his recruiting no? What he gets paid for. Where are the Big East players?