The Perfect Coach for ST John's

I work and live near Davidson College in NC and occasionally go to games.  Not a fan, but just go for the basketball.

Went to the Davidson - St. Bonaventure game tonight.

What stood out to me after reflecting on St. John's all season is the difference in what a well coached basketball team looks like. Bob McKillop has a great program.  They play outstanding team ball.  Balls moves crisply, looking to find the man with the best look at the basket.  There were no noticeable attempts at trying to make ESPN highlight reel, isolation ball etc.   Team shot 43% from 3, 93% for FT line etc.    Even St. Bonaventure was well coached.  Sure some of these guys may be a step to slow or inch to short, but there were a few guys that clearly could cut it in "power conferences. 

On another note, for a 5K arena, Davidson's place is really nice, and seat backs throughout are a pleasure.   Couple this with a nice student section who was loud out of the gate.    Even St. Bonaventure had a strong fan base that seemed 200+ strong and they were loud from the whistle too.  I come up to NY for several St. John's games a year and this experience is night and day.   About the only thing better is the dance team and the better music.

For me, it's just clear we need to do better in all areas.... coaching, recruiting, fan base, investment in program or just face reality that this program is living 30+ years on the past.

Great post NC. Totally agree with your statement of appreciating what a well coached basketball team looks like. It's like Justice Potter Stewart said of trying to define the parameters of pornography when he wrote he may not be able to define it but he knows it when he sees it. After watching tons of basketball for over 50 years I know a well coached team when I see one. Even a few of the announcers who by and large never criticize coaches (think it was JT3 and Steve Lappas) pointed out in our last few games many poor things we were doing out on the court. In anticipation of any Foad corrections or criticisms Foad can go Foad himself.

Knocking the staff for not signing top players and for landing Mikey Dixon doesn't make sense. Simon was ranked #30 in the RSCI, Ponds was ranked as high as #35, Yakwe was top 75, Keita was #85, Lovett was top 75, and Brooks is top 80. That's more than we deserve with 9 conference wins in three years.

Dixon would certainly have been a top 100 and probably a top 75 player in his class if the rankings were redone after his freshman season. He's a great recruit for a # of reasons.

Knocking the staff for not signing top players and for landing Mikey Dixon doesn't make sense. Simon was ranked #30 in the RSCI, Ponds was ranked as high as #35, Yakwe was top 75, Keita was #85, Lovett was top 75, and Brooks is top 80. That's more than we deserve with 9 conference wins in three years.

Dixon would certainly have been a top 100 and probably a top 75 player in his class if the rankings were redone after his freshman season. He's a great recruit for a # of reasons.

Dixon is probably a good player but you are setting yourself up to be disappointed in a huge way. There have been a few guys pretty recently that scored a ton of points in a lower conference, transferred up and haven't really been good at that higher level. I hope he'll be a solid guy for us for 3 years but I have my reservations

Quote from: Marillac on January 20, 2018, 12:11:11 AM

Knocking the staff for not signing top players and for landing Mikey Dixon doesn't make sense. Simon was ranked #30 in the RSCI, Ponds was ranked as high as #35, Yakwe was top 75, Keita was #85, Lovett was top 75, and Brooks is top 80. That's more than we deserve with 9 conference wins in three years.

Dixon would certainly have been a top 100 and probably a top 75 player in his class if the rankings were redone after his freshman season. He's a great recruit for a # of reasons.

Dixon is probably a good player but you are setting yourself up to be disappointed in a huge way. There have been a few guys pretty recently that scored a ton of points in a lower conference, transferred up and haven't really been good at that higher level. I hope he'll be a solid guy for us for 3 years but I have my reservations

How am I setting myself up for anything? I didn't even say what I expected out of him. As a former coach and someone that has been around college teams more than most, I look at things differently. You need depth and continuity to get to the level and consistency of a team like Xavier. You also need to cover all your bases before having stars even matter.

I think Dixon will be a good 8th or 9th guy. He's a great recruit to me because (1) his floor is pretty high given what he has shown in college already combined with his skills and shooting %s (2) he came here knowing we already had Ponds, Simon, and Lovett only a year ahead of him (3) we have leverage on him since no kid wants to sit out two years for two transfers and (4) he will help bring continuity with 3-4 years on the team.

Quote from: goredmen on January 20, 2018, 12:50:57 AM

Quote from: Marillac on January 20, 2018, 12:11:11 AM

Knocking the staff for not signing top players and for landing Mikey Dixon doesn't make sense. Simon was ranked #30 in the RSCI, Ponds was ranked as high as #35, Yakwe was top 75, Keita was #85, Lovett was top 75, and Brooks is top 80. That's more than we deserve with 9 conference wins in three years.

Dixon would certainly have been a top 100 and probably a top 75 player in his class if the rankings were redone after his freshman season. He's a great recruit for a # of reasons.

Dixon is probably a good player but you are setting yourself up to be disappointed in a huge way. There have been a few guys pretty recently that scored a ton of points in a lower conference, transferred up and haven't really been good at that higher level. I hope he'll be a solid guy for us for 3 years but I have my reservations

How am I setting myself up for anything? I didn't even say what I expected out of him. As a former coach and someone that has been around college teams more than most, I look at things differently. You need depth and continuity to get to the level and consistency of a team like Xavier. You also need to cover all your bases before having stars even matter.

I think Dixon will be a good 8th or 9th guy. He's a great recruit to me because (1) his floor is pretty high given what he has shown in college already combined with his skills and shooting %s (2) he came here knowing we already had Ponds, Simon, and Lovett only a year ahead of him (3) we have leverage on him since no kid wants to sit out two years for two transfers and (4) he will help bring continuity with 3-4 years on the team.

You said he'd be a top 100 player in the class if they redid the rankings. That's probably wildly false and I took it to mean you will expect top 100 player type production from him. Maybe you didn't mean it but that's how it came across.

Sit-out transfers also gain the leverage back since they typically graduate after their 3rd year of eligibility, meaning they can transfer wherever as a grad transfer. This could all be moot anyway if the rules change to allow kids to transfer whenever without having to sit out

I work and live near Davidson College in NC and occasionally go to games.  Not a fan, but just go for the basketball.

Went to the Davidson - St. Bonaventure game tonight.

What stood out to me after reflecting on St. John's all season is the difference in what a well coached basketball team looks like. Bob McKillop has a great program.  They play outstanding team ball.  Balls moves crisply, looking to find the man with the best look at the basket.  There were no noticeable attempts at trying to make ESPN highlight reel, isolation ball etc.   Team shot 43% from 3, 93% for FT line etc.    Even St. Bonaventure was well coached.  Sure some of these guys may be a step to slow or inch to short, but there were a few guys that clearly could cut it in "power conferences. 

On another note, for a 5K arena, Davidson's place is really nice, and seat backs throughout are a pleasure.   Couple this with a nice student section who was loud out of the gate.    Even St. Bonaventure had a strong fan base that seemed 200+ strong and they were loud from the whistle too.  I come up to NY for several St. John's games a year and this experience is night and day.   About the only thing better is the dance team and the better music.

For me, it's just clear we need to do better in all areas.... coaching, recruiting, fan base, investment in program or just face reality that this program is living 30+ years on the past.

Product first. Then fans. The casual fan considers STJ to be a trash bag program. The alumni could give a shit no matter what.

Quote from: Marillac on January 20, 2018, 01:24:44 AM

Quote from: goredmen on January 20, 2018, 12:50:57 AM

Quote from: Marillac on January 20, 2018, 12:11:11 AM

Knocking the staff for not signing top players and for landing Mikey Dixon doesn't make sense. Simon was ranked #30 in the RSCI, Ponds was ranked as high as #35, Yakwe was top 75, Keita was #85, Lovett was top 75, and Brooks is top 80. That's more than we deserve with 9 conference wins in three years.

Dixon would certainly have been a top 100 and probably a top 75 player in his class if the rankings were redone after his freshman season. He's a great recruit for a # of reasons.

Dixon is probably a good player but you are setting yourself up to be disappointed in a huge way. There have been a few guys pretty recently that scored a ton of points in a lower conference, transferred up and haven't really been good at that higher level. I hope he'll be a solid guy for us for 3 years but I have my reservations

How am I setting myself up for anything? I didn't even say what I expected out of him. As a former coach and someone that has been around college teams more than most, I look at things differently. You need depth and continuity to get to the level and consistency of a team like Xavier. You also need to cover all your bases before having stars even matter.

I think Dixon will be a good 8th or 9th guy. He's a great recruit to me because (1) his floor is pretty high given what he has shown in college already combined with his skills and shooting %s (2) he came here knowing we already had Ponds, Simon, and Lovett only a year ahead of him (3) we have leverage on him since no kid wants to sit out two years for two transfers and (4) he will help bring continuity with 3-4 years on the team.

You said he'd be a top 100 player in the class if they redid the rankings. That's probably wildly false and I took it to mean you will expect top 100 player type production from him. Maybe you didn't mean it but that's how it came across.

Sit-out transfers also gain the leverage back since they typically graduate after their 3rd year of eligibility, meaning they can transfer wherever as a grad transfer. This could all be moot anyway if the rules change to allow kids to transfer whenever without having to sit out

Based on merit I think he would have been top 100 after his freshman year. He probably gets bounced out after his redshirt year this season with other guys passing him by showing growth. There are always lot of busts in the original top 100 (Mo Diakate was once #52 and Yakwe was top 75).

Quote from: fordham96 on January 19, 2018, 10:42:20 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on January 19, 2018, 10:08:15 PM

Quote from: wpc77 on January 19, 2018, 10:00:46 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on January 19, 2018, 09:52:12 PM

Quote from: fordham96 on January 19, 2018, 09:40:16 PM

Quote from: Foad on January 19, 2018, 05:16:05 PM

Quote from: fordham96 on January 19, 2018, 05:07:45 PM

Eh it's OK talent.  I expected more.

Eh well, not being a Kentucky fan I'm happy with a half a dozen four and five star recruits and being a St John's fan I'm accustomed to less. If the talent's just okay it'd be hard for anyone to compete in one of the top conferences in the country, much less someone who has no benefit of the doubt left. If a couple five top 100 recruits just won't cut it. I'll adjust my expectations downward accordingly.

Come on.  They didn't go after Barry Rohrssen with large sums of money and pry him away from UK so we could go after Mikey Dixon from Quinnipiac..  Not to mention the fact that at his introductory press conference Chris said if there is a top NY/NJ area kid SJU needs to land him.  SJU went after almost every top 20 kid the last 3 years and landed none of them (Ponds was nice but not in the class of those kids I named earlier).

The fact is a solid assistant off of a major program hired as a HC, a lower level HC with some experience hired as HC or even Lavin could have recruited the same or equivalent roster in 4 years.  Doesn't mean it can't be good but stop acting like the alternative is UK or Duke.  Villanova is not UK or Duke and they can get Brunson, Spellman etc....

Again it is certainly not a bad roster but I see a lot of kids that will need to develop and no real impact freshmen recruits.  And I can tell you certain staff members months ago were hyping this incoming class  in anticipation of landing kids like Reid, Muhammad etc...that wasn't me that was the staff talking to local scribes...

Same guy who asked for a raise

Same guy who can't do anything else besides recruit.  A modern day Vinny Cerrato, he ain't.

But he went to St. John's, so he gets a pass. And a raise

I don't get this idea of "he gets a pass.." From who?  He is an assistant he works for and is chosen by the HC.  Again much like the argument of hiring an assistant, if you have a problem  with the staff than you have a problem with the HC and that who is ultimately the problem. 

Matt is supposedly known for his recruiting no? What he gets paid for. Where are the Big East players?

Biggest problem is Mullin. Not an assistant coach, or injuries, or recruiting or bad luck. He doesn’t have any business coaching at this level. He doesn’t need to improve. He needs to leave with some dignity before it gets really ugly.

In addition, he owes the University and the fans a sincere apology for wasting yet another year.

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 19, 2018, 05:35:49 PM

Benefit of the doubt. Foady- u like stats. I am not looking it up, but from memory we got killed last year. Most of the cult was happy that our coach was paying attention. Look up scoring margins especially the 1st half in big east games. We got absolutely destroyed. Every loss was an absolute beat down. Second halves teams calmed down. Except in the big east- nova dropped 108 points .
How do you give up 108 points in a college basketball game ? How many times did we give 90 points? What team does that?
Plenty of season left. The pro Mullin argument should expect to see improvement. Not benefit of the doubt. Not passes. Not Rome wasn’t built in a day. Not trust the process. Certainly not cupards. This is not CYO . Produce or leave
Season is half over - we still have 5 and 4 star players- jerry wainwright had that? Oliver Purnell lost withguys like that
We play Georgetown And creighton this week- winning both should be possible-

Although I appreciate your  rehashing it , I'm aware of what happened last year. And I'm not not so senile that I'm even aware of what happened this year. This year sucked after December. I cannot predict what happens next year, but I hope it's better. I hope they win tomorrow, they've been playing hard, they deserve a win. I hope they win out. That's not likely, but I hope it happens.

What do you hope they do? My spidey sense tells me you hope they lose a bunch of games so you can sat I told you so.

No loser. I just want to win Basketball games. If our coach could turn this around I would be thrilled. I thought he should be replaced last year, but still went to games, still rooted hard. I want a new coach because o don’t think he has done a good job and I don’t believe going forward he will. That is it. No insults. I won’t write things on his Wikipedia page.
My name is anthony who likes basketball. I am not a foad.

I work and live near Davidson College in NC and occasionally go to games.  Not a fan, but just go for the basketball.

Went to the Davidson - St. Bonaventure game tonight.

What stood out to me after reflecting on St. John's all season is the difference in what a well coached basketball team looks like. Bob McKillop has a great program.  They play outstanding team ball.  Balls moves crisply, looking to find the man with the best look at the basket.  There were no noticeable attempts at trying to make ESPN highlight reel, isolation ball etc.   Team shot 43% from 3, 93% for FT line etc.    Even St. Bonaventure was well coached.  Sure some of these guys may be a step to slow or inch to short, but there were a few guys that clearly could cut it in "power conferences. 

On another note, for a 5K arena, Davidson's place is really nice, and seat backs throughout are a pleasure.   Couple this with a nice student section who was loud out of the gate.    Even St. Bonaventure had a strong fan base that seemed 200+ strong and they were loud from the whistle too.  I come up to NY for several St. John's games a year and this experience is night and day.   About the only thing better is the dance team and the better music.

For me, it's just clear we need to do better in all areas.... coaching, recruiting, fan base, investment in program or just face reality that this program is living 30+ years on the past.

This needs to be put on a billboard right outside of AD Goff's office

Quote from: Foad on January 19, 2018, 09:23:21 PM

Quote from: Poison on January 19, 2018, 08:35:03 PM

But you know what I think the board might find refreshing after listening to you rip Coach Lavin from the minute he began at St.John’s?

You can admit that you were wrong. Not just a little wrong, but undeniably wrong,

Actually stupid, I didn't rip Lavin from the day he was hired. Quite the contrary. As regular readers of my popular blog will remember, when Lavin was hired I announced that I was moving the day I was lucky enough to marry my delightful bride down from number two to number three on the list of the greatest days of my life. Originally my wedding day was was number one - I mean you have to say that to keep the peace, actually the greatest day of my life involved several bottles of tequila and two young sisters fresh off the bus from Cinco Esquinas but that's not the kind of thing you discuss in polite company -  but then I won a national handicapping contest sponsored by the Daily Racing Form by picking the winner of the Breeder's Cup Classic in 2001, so that moved her down to two, and then then day Lavin was hired I told her she'd become number three, that's how happy I was thinking that by hiring an actual basketball coach my beloved Redmen were going to become nationally prominent again. That was before I realized that Lavin was less a basketball coach than a mentally ill snake oil saleman. Not being a completely gullible rube from Scarsdale I moved Mrs Fun back to number two and we've lived happily ever after since then. How's your life life? I'm guessing it involves a lot of self loathing and hand lotion.

8-35

That may be , but I'm undefeated, so I feel pretty good.

I am looking for honest perspective here and if anyone has intel that would be helpful on this.
Some time ago just post-Lav I brought up Marc Jackson as being good fit with SJU Alum, NBA pedigree and basketball IQ.

Someone mentioned it was not likely because he had bad relationship with school. Could anyone elaborate on this please?

I think personally we really failed by not ponying up enough money then to make the hard feelings go away. He would have been great here and now we are in a position where we cannot spend alot because of Mullins contract as some have said with buyout expenses. Plus I fear that it would be even less attractive to replace Mullin considering their relationship. But still - one wonders what if we went in that direction and overpaid a bit then? Maybe things would have been better.

I am looking for honest perspective here and if anyone has intel that would be helpful on this.
Some time ago just post-Lav I brought up Marc Jackson as being good fit with SJU Alum, NBA pedigree and basketball IQ.

Someone mentioned it was not likely because he had bad relationship with school. Could anyone elaborate on this please?

I think personally we really failed by not ponying up enough money then to make the hard feelings go away. He would have been great here and now we are in a position where we cannot spend alot because of Mullins contract as some have said with buyout expenses. Plus I fear that it would be even less attractive to replace Mullin considering their relationship. But still - one wonders what if we went in that direction and overpaid a bit then? Maybe things would have been better.

Jackson probably going to be next Knick coach

We need someone with no ties to program because there has been 0 success by anyone within in 30 years. New culture, new culture

We need someone with no ties to program because there has been 0 success by anyone within in 30 years. New culture, new culture

No. Stupid thought process.

Mullin getting fired is not happening.  Mark Jackson being hired is not happening.

Re-visit this in a year but for now just hope Chris gets this thing going soon.

How do u figure? Tell me a guy that has ties to sju program currently across country that is an assistant or a hc that should be considered? If I’m missing someone and is qualified than I stand corrected? What is going on right now  should be a strong indication, we need to breathe new life into this doormat of a program.

Not saying Mullin will be fired this year, nor should he, but like I said earlier, he has one year to put a game plan together for both staff and keeping this place from a revolving door.   

Mullin is a winner.  He'll get it done.

Quote from: rdstr25 on January 20, 2018, 10:17:00 PM

We need someone with no ties to program because there has been 0 success by anyone within in 30 years. New culture, new culture

No. Stupid thought process.

Is it? How so? I think this is what an objective fan would recognize. The University was star struck. This is an athlete not a rocket scientist. Why would anyone in their right mind think Chris Mullin would be a coach we should hire because he can play the sport? The arrogance is beyond anything we’ve seen from at St.John’s coach.

Jarvis was fired because he had enough with entitled “talent” and he had a different plan for recruiting players. But his teams always defended. That was their identity. Opposing coaches knew that about him. Norm had no identity. Lavin had no identity either. What’s Mullin’s identity? It’s year 3. We don’t even know what kind of team we want to have.