Patience/Comparable Rebuilds

Couple of things.  I do think SJU can have a big turnaround next year.  But more importantly they will have to, there is no way he can win 7 league games next year and claim it was an improvement based on this year being a disaster.  Again he does not get the benefit of the doubt like he did after year 1.  He does not get to benefit from a disaster this year.  The year 4 expectations still remain.  As I said it is a two year plan now with a HUGE jump next year expected and then year 5 competing with Nova.  So I like your enthusiasm...

If the two year plan you keep speaking about is true, why not just extend his contract now..? I am not doubting it and you keep mentioning it as a hard truth, it would make sense for recruiting sake to have him locked in now.

If he turns the program around hard next year, the extension will cost the school more money.

Quote from: Foad on February 01, 2018, 08:10:50 PM

Quote from: colelatshaw2010 on February 01, 2018, 07:21:41 PM

Is it a personal thing or do you actually view Jarvis as a better coach at St Johns then Lavin?  No sense in dragging up the merits of lavin as a coach as you and I obviously fall on opposite ends of that spectrum. If you're straight up comparing lavin to Jarvis though you're talking one guy who had, at worst,  moderate success vs another guy who paid players and had a player sex scandal under his watch leading to us being on probation/ sanctions.

It's definitely personal.

You're kind of though mixing apples and oranges. Purely based on his results - sans probation - Jarhead was clearly more successful than Lavin. Elite eight, NIT championship versus one post season victory, no contest. Purely based on the the number of rapes and assaults under each Lavin was clearly better than Jarvis. He only recruited one  murderer, whereas Jarvis recruited several rapists, a woman beater and a crack dealer. I was very happy when both were hired and ended up hating each of them. Asking me which one I hated more is like asking a parent which one of their children they love less. They both sucked. If you're asking me today to choose one Jarvis sucked less because his sucking has receded farther in time.

Jarvis did not recruit a single player who had given any of us reason to believe that they would turn out the way they did. A fair point can be made that firing him was the biggest mistake St.John’s has made in 15 years. 

Sharif Fordham was a quality role player as a Johnny. That’s all he was when he was here as far we knew. He’s paid his debt. Why harp on him? You’re a dick. That’s why. And why is Jarvis accountable for what Fordham did after St.John’s? Plenty of athletes get in trouble with the law after college. It’s the coach’s fault? Is Lou Carnesecca responsible for Jayson Williams? Is Fran Fraschilla responsible for Ron Artest? 

Oh, and there was an iPhone recording. Disgusting? Sure. Consensual? That was proven.

Re Jarvis' first two years I think Fran's players would have a similar feedback on those teams as Baron's comment on Lavin.  Luckily they had been playing together under coaches who knew more than the weave for years prior to that season at both Riverside and under Fran.  Biggest mistake was not firing him after the 02-03 season.  That team was 15-13 and didn't deserve an NIT bid but it was back in the days when STJ got an automatic bid with a .500 or better record.  At the time he was feuding with everyone in the admin and athletic department, and was clearly disinterested in the job at best, detested it at worst.  At that point it is likely there would have been a far bigger pool of interested parties for the job, Norm would have never happened and the entire program would be in a different position right now.

Quote from: fordham96 on January 31, 2018, 10:02:58 PM

Couple of things.  I do think SJU can have a big turnaround next year.  But more importantly they will have to, there is no way he can win 7 league games next year and claim it was an improvement based on this year being a disaster.  Again he does not get the benefit of the doubt like he did after year 1.  He does not get to benefit from a disaster this year.  The year 4 expectations still remain.  As I said it is a two year plan now with a HUGE jump next year expected and then year 5 competing with Nova.  So I like your enthusiasm...

If the two year plan you keep speaking about is true, why not just extend his contract now..? I am not doubting it and you keep mentioning it as a hard truth, it would make sense for recruiting sake to have him locked in now.

If he turns the program around hard next year, the extension will cost the school more money.

This kind of thinking is what I am afraid of. First part of plan was to win 5/6 games this season.

im Crews has a .516 winning percentage as a division 1 head coach. Our current staff has a .364 winning percentage. So after carrying the one, it appears that Crews would be a major upgrade than whoever he'd replace on the current staff.

Maybe he would. I have no idea, having never heard of him before yesterday. Maybe his 59–140 record at Army was a fluke. Maybe you watched a lot of Army basketball 20 years ago and came away impressed with his basketball acumen, an acumen belied by his record, so you know he knows his Xs and Os. Maybe a .500 record after a 30 year career in which he lost more games than he won nearly half the time (13 of 29) comprises a big time assistant's resume. But on paper he seems pretty mediocre.

But again, your logic is that even though Rhode Island is better than St John's in every facet of basketball this year, St John's has better players and Danny Hurley is not good enough to coach here. Shows what we're dealing with

Now you're being a silly billy. I said nothing of the kind. You said "After [Ponds] the next 4 or 5 best players belong to URI." I disagreed, because if RI has 5 players better than Justin Simon and they're not in the top ten they should fire Hurley. Then you started jabbering about advanced isometrics or whatever, which you believed proved that Mike Daum of South Dakota State had a better year than Kemba Walker the year Walker single handedly led Uconn to the national championship. I disagree again. Because I have eyes.

Idle question: If KenPom had advanced cybermetrics proving that Lena Dunham was better looking than Mila Kunis would you start jerking off during Girls? Because I wouldn't, I 'd stick to That 70s Show.

And finally I've never seen Danny Hurley coach and don't recall expressing an opinion about his fitness as a coach. If it makes you feel better I'd happily welcome him as an assistant if the choice is between him and Jim Crews.

Will be there. What do older gentleman like to drink ?

Something clear and in the neighborhood of 100 proof. I'm not particular as long as there's a lot of it.

Want to make it special

In that case wear something frilly.

Quote from: Foad on February 01, 2018, 08:10:50 PM

Quote from: colelatshaw2010 on February 01, 2018, 07:21:41 PM

Is it a personal thing or do you actually view Jarvis as a better coach at St Johns then Lavin?  No sense in dragging up the merits of lavin as a coach as you and I obviously fall on opposite ends of that spectrum. If you're straight up comparing lavin to Jarvis though you're talking one guy who had, at worst,  moderate success vs another guy who paid players and had a player sex scandal under his watch leading to us being on probation/ sanctions.

It's definitely personal.

You're kind of though mixing apples and oranges. Purely based on his results - sans probation - Jarhead was clearly more successful than Lavin. Elite eight, NIT championship versus one post season victory, no contest. Purely based on the the number of rapes and assaults under each Lavin was clearly better than Jarvis. He only recruited one  murderer, whereas Jarvis recruited several rapists, a woman beater and a crack dealer. I was very happy when both were hired and ended up hating each of them. Asking me which one I hated more is like asking a parent which one of their children they love less. They both sucked. If you're asking me today to choose one Jarvis sucked less because his sucking has receded farther in time.

Sans probation lol good one.  I'm pretty sure most of the accomplishments you listed for Jarvis were vacated.

Also,  Rysheed technically skipped his finals and shot at a guy while under Mullin's watch.

Asking me to choose between Jarvis and Lavin is like asking me what sort of shit I'd prefer to step in. Jarvis was a better on the court basketball coach. (Which is not saying much.) They were both lazy haphazard recruiters. Jarvis was sane, Lavin is mentally ill. Jarvis left the program in disgrace, Lavin did not. Taking the vacated wins into account,  neither accomplished anything in the post season, although to paraphrase WASJU, they cannot vacate the thrill of watching Scoonie Penn getting away with fouling Erick Barkley in the Elite Eight: that disappointment they can never take away. Both of them have blocked me on Twitter, so that's a wash. Honestly I have to stick with Lavin: he's my great white double chinned whale.
 

I see. So in some cases it’s ok to blame the coach for the lives his players lead post college. But not in all cases. Thanks for clarifying that so a stupid person like myself can follow along.

Right, it's okay to blame some teachers for being bad teachers and it's okay to laud some other teachers for being good teachers. My mother was an elementary school teacher. One day one of her 12 year olds went home and killed his parents with a shotgun. Was that her fault? Of course it was not. Jeffrey Dahmer's teachers probably weren't responsible for his behavior, except maybe his home ec teacher piqued his curiosity with some exotic recipes, I can't be sure. On the other hand there are teachers who students credit with changing their lives for the better. Not every teacher gets blamed when a student does something wrong and not every teacher gets credit when a student succeeds. Some do. I don't see how that's a controversial statement. However, if you're a motivational speaker who writes a book called SKILLS FOR LIFE and your students include a crack dealer, a woman beater, and a bunch of rapists - Grady Reynolds, Jack Wolfenstien, James Felton, Abe Keita - that's a pattern that demonstrates that you're full of shit.