Grading the coaching staff

Quote from: fordham96 on March 08, 2018, 08:28:16 PM

Vaccaro nails it.  For a guy with a .388 winning percentage he probably has more job security than any coach in the country.  And that's fine, FOR NOW. But it needs to start changing next year.  Again 2 year plan.  First become relevant next year and then be right there with X and Nova in year 5. 

Absolutely no reason for SJU not to be in that position a year from now.  And I think Chris Mullin would agree.

https://nypost.com/2018/03/08/its-desperately-time-for-st-johns-to-be-great-again/

You keep saying that . Why do you think improvement is coming?

Let's be clear I am repeating what I was told, that is the expectation.  I didn't say I personally was that optimistic or pessimistic.

There is no excuse to be in the 4th year at SJU and still be a country mile behind Villanova.  Not when you fired the previous guy because he could not get you over the hump with regards to that.  That is why the expectations are getting JACKED up next year.  And they should.   You want to make excuses about Lovett fine.  But that is gone now.  He wouldn't have been here past this year anyway.

That is what Vaccaro is saying, this 4th year is pivotal for a program that even Vac agrees should not be a second tier program in its own conference.  No way.  Again you fired the last guy because you thought he was not going to get you there (and that is absolutely reasonable).  There is no need to keep making excuses for the next guy because his name is Chris Mullin.

If you are asking me personally do I think they have enough talent to make a sizable leap next year, I have my own questions about that.  I definitely think they should improve but he needs to make SERIOUS improvement.

Quote from: Foad on March 08, 2018, 08:22:30 PM

Quote from: Poison on March 08, 2018, 08:14:57 PM

So, the majority vote believes that Mullin did an average job

Winning half your games could not be more average. Which don't you understand, math or English?

The part I don’t understand is where delusional homers like you want to credit Chris Mullin for wins at home vs New Orleans, Central Connecticut State and of course, Molloy. If you remove your mouth from his ballsack it might add some objectivity to your opinion.

Objective like you presumably. I gave him a C, he was .500, that's average and especially under the circumstances. Did he create the circumstances, yes. OTOH he beat dook and Villanova - you must have been out of the country that week because you were conspicuously absent from the board when the team was winning. It was the best worst season ever. Started with high hopes, followed by disaster and despair and then redemption. Other than the results I quite enjoyed it.

Quote from: TONYD3 on March 08, 2018, 08:36:30 PM

Quote from: fordham96 on March 08, 2018, 08:28:16 PM

Vaccaro nails it.  For a guy with a .388 winning percentage he probably has more job security than any coach in the country.  And that's fine, FOR NOW. But it needs to start changing next year.  Again 2 year plan.  First become relevant next year and then be right there with X and Nova in year 5. 

Absolutely no reason for SJU not to be in that position a year from now.  And I think Chris Mullin would agree.

https://nypost.com/2018/03/08/its-desperately-time-for-st-johns-to-be-great-again/

You keep saying that . Why do you think improvement is coming?

Let's be clear I am repeating what I was told, that is the expectation.  I didn't say I personally was that optimistic or pessimistic.

There is no excuse to be in the 4th year at SJU and still be a country mile behind Villanova.  Not when you fired the previous guy because he could not get you over the hump with regards to that.  That is why the expectations are getting JACKED up next year.  And they should.   You want to make excuses about Lovett fine.  But that is gone now.  He wouldn't have been here past this year anyway.

That is what Vaccaro is saying, this 4th year is pivotal for a program that even Vac agrees should not be a second tier program in its own conference.  No way.  Again you fired the last guy because you thought he was not going to get you there (and that is absolutely reasonable).  There is no need to keep making excuses for the next guy because his name is Chris Mullin.

If you are asking me personally do I think they have enough talent to make a sizable leap next year, I have my own questions about that.  I definitely think they should improve but he needs to make SERIOUS improvement.

I agree with your outlook entirely.  The team has to make the tournament next year, and I don't see a roster loaded with superior talent.  Perhaps very good, but definitely not exceptional.

But to dismiss the Lovett departure as a footnote on the season, and therefore the perception of the program's trajectory, seems unfair to Mullin (who should rightly shoulder the blame in other departments).  If Kyron Cartwright missed the whole season, Providence wouldn't make the tournament, for example.  Same with, say, Carrington/Seton Hall and Foster/Creighton.  Lovett was an absolutely critical piece of the puzzle for this season.  We built the team around having two dynamic guards and, like most other teams would, struggled to adjust on the fly.  Mullin is responsible for the backup plan for key players, and he clearly whiffed.   Winning programs have either depth, a system that does not rely on spectacular talents, or both.  I doubt we'll be in that position next year even if everybody returns.  So lots of wood left to chop, and the pressure is on.

He has coached just about 60 games. We have lost around 80 percent. More then half have been absolute beatdowns. After every absolute beat down. You imply that I am stupid. Foady you love stats, guess who has the worst record at St. John’s? Besides Jarvis who started with a good situation? C+ is better then average.

I don't imply that you're stupid, I'm pretty sure I come right out and call you stupid. You post the same half dozen half formed thoughts half a dozen times a day, which posting you do from filthy disgusting public toilets surrounding by similarly situated slobs and the stench of their shit. If that's not stupid what's stupid.

Before the season I had then winning 17 or 18 with their 2nd best player.
They lost their 2nd best player, Ponds missed 3 games and they won 16.
Lovett was easily worth 2 wins.
They also beat the #1 and number 4 teams in the country.
I gave him a C but I could argue C+

Vaccaro nails it.  For a guy with a .388 winning percentage he probably has more job security than any coach in the country.  And that's fine, FOR NOW. But it needs to start changing next year.  Again 2 year plan.  First become relevant next year and then be right there with X and Nova in year 5. 

Absolutely no reason for SJU not to be in that position a year from now.  And I think Chris Mullin would agree.

https://nypost.com/2018/03/08/its-desperately-time-for-st-johns-to-be-great-again/

Here's my problem with that, and this has nothing to do with Mullin. Nova and Xavier have had a decade+ of success, and have just been able to keep reloading and replenishing talent. For any head coach to come in here and climb that mountain in a few years just seems highly unlikely. Especially since we've had no success in 2 decades, and can't compete with the big boys in many other facets including facilities. I'm not sure I could realistically name many coaches who would be able to come in here and make that type of impact. I'm not settling for less, I'm just being realistic.

Quote from: Poison on March 08, 2018, 08:28:57 PM

Quote from: Foad on March 08, 2018, 08:22:30 PM

Quote from: Poison on March 08, 2018, 08:14:57 PM

So, the majority vote believes that Mullin did an average job

Winning half your games could not be more average. Which don't you understand, math or English?

The part I don’t understand is where delusional homers like you want to credit Chris Mullin for wins at home vs New Orleans, Central Connecticut State and of course, Molloy. If you remove your mouth from his ballsack it might add some objectivity to your opinion.

Objective like you presumably. I gave him a C, he was .500, that's average and especially under the circumstances. Did he create the circumstances, yes. OTOH he beat dook and Villanova - you must have been out of the country that week because you were conspicuously absent from the board when the team was winning. It was the best worst season ever. Started with high hopes, followed by disaster and despair and then redemption. Other than the results I quite enjoyed it.

Even great teams have bad days, but good job changing the topic. This team went 5-15. There’s nothing average about that.

Quote from: fordham96 on March 09, 2018, 08:24:39 AM

Quote from: TONYD3 on March 08, 2018, 08:36:30 PM

Quote from: fordham96 on March 08, 2018, 08:28:16 PM

Vaccaro nails it.  For a guy with a .388 winning percentage he probably has more job security than any coach in the country.  And that's fine, FOR NOW. But it needs to start changing next year.  Again 2 year plan.  First become relevant next year and then be right there with X and Nova in year 5. 

Absolutely no reason for SJU not to be in that position a year from now.  And I think Chris Mullin would agree.

https://nypost.com/2018/03/08/its-desperately-time-for-st-johns-to-be-great-again/

You keep saying that . Why do you think improvement is coming?

Let's be clear I am repeating what I was told, that is the expectation.  I didn't say I personally was that optimistic or pessimistic.

There is no excuse to be in the 4th year at SJU and still be a country mile behind Villanova.  Not when you fired the previous guy because he could not get you over the hump with regards to that.  That is why the expectations are getting JACKED up next year.  And they should.   You want to make excuses about Lovett fine.  But that is gone now.  He wouldn't have been here past this year anyway.

That is what Vaccaro is saying, this 4th year is pivotal for a program that even Vac agrees should not be a second tier program in its own conference.  No way.  Again you fired the last guy because you thought he was not going to get you there (and that is absolutely reasonable).  There is no need to keep making excuses for the next guy because his name is Chris Mullin.

If you are asking me personally do I think they have enough talent to make a sizable leap next year, I have my own questions about that.  I definitely think they should improve but he needs to make SERIOUS improvement.

I agree with your outlook entirely.  The team has to make the tournament next year, and I don't see a roster loaded with superior talent.  Perhaps very good, but definitely not exceptional.

But to dismiss the Lovett departure as a footnote on the season, and therefore the perception of the program's trajectory, seems unfair to Mullin (who should rightly shoulder the blame in other departments).  If Kyron Cartwright missed the whole season, Providence wouldn't make the tournament, for example.  Same with, say, Carrington/Seton Hall and Foster/Creighton.  Lovett was an absolutely critical piece of the puzzle for this season.  We built the team around having two dynamic guards and, like most other teams would, struggled to adjust on the fly.  Mullin is responsible for the backup plan for key players, and he clearly whiffed.   Winning programs have either depth, a system that does not rely on spectacular talents, or both.  I doubt we'll be in that position next year even if everybody returns.  So lots of wood left to chop, and the pressure is on.

We are somewhere in the middle of the conference in talent if Ponds returns. Where does our coach rank in the BE if not last, which is where I’d put him?

Mullin couldn’t be bothered with this. Our players don’t shake hands because their feelings were hurt. Where is the leadership?

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/st-john-routed-xavier-big-east-tournament-quarterfinals-article-1.3863498

Mullin couldn’t be bothered with this. Our players don’t shake hands because their feelings were hurt. Where is the leadership?

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/st-john-routed-xavier-big-east-tournament-quarterfinals-article-1.3863498

Chris Mack is a peeping Tom
Pointer and Obekpa repeatedly took cheap shots at guys. Where was the leadership?

Quote from: fordham96 on March 09, 2018, 08:24:39 AM

Quote from: TONYD3 on March 08, 2018, 08:36:30 PM

Quote from: fordham96 on March 08, 2018, 08:28:16 PM

Vaccaro nails it.  For a guy with a .388 winning percentage he probably has more job security than any coach in the country.  And that's fine, FOR NOW. But it needs to start changing next year.  Again 2 year plan.  First become relevant next year and then be right there with X and Nova in year 5. 

Absolutely no reason for SJU not to be in that position a year from now.  And I think Chris Mullin would agree.

https://nypost.com/2018/03/08/its-desperately-time-for-st-johns-to-be-great-again/

You keep saying that . Why do you think improvement is coming?

Let's be clear I am repeating what I was told, that is the expectation.  I didn't say I personally was that optimistic or pessimistic.

There is no excuse to be in the 4th year at SJU and still be a country mile behind Villanova.  Not when you fired the previous guy because he could not get you over the hump with regards to that.  That is why the expectations are getting JACKED up next year.  And they should.   You want to make excuses about Lovett fine.  But that is gone now.  He wouldn't have been here past this year anyway.

That is what Vaccaro is saying, this 4th year is pivotal for a program that even Vac agrees should not be a second tier program in its own conference.  No way.  Again you fired the last guy because you thought he was not going to get you there (and that is absolutely reasonable).  There is no need to keep making excuses for the next guy because his name is Chris Mullin.

If you are asking me personally do I think they have enough talent to make a sizable leap next year, I have my own questions about that.  I definitely think they should improve but he needs to make SERIOUS improvement.

I agree with your outlook entirely.  The team has to make the tournament next year, and I don't see a roster loaded with superior talent.  Perhaps very good, but definitely not exceptional.

But to dismiss the Lovett departure as a footnote on the season, and therefore the perception of the program's trajectory, seems unfair to Mullin (who should rightly shoulder the blame in other departments).  If Kyron Cartwright missed the whole season, Providence wouldn't make the tournament, for example.  Same with, say, Carrington/Seton Hall and Foster/Creighton.  Lovett was an absolutely critical piece of the puzzle for this season.  We built the team around having two dynamic guards and, like most other teams would, struggled to adjust on the fly.  Mullin is responsible for the backup plan for key players, and he clearly whiffed.   Winning programs have either depth, a system that does not rely on spectacular talents, or both.  I doubt we'll be in that position next year even if everybody returns.  So lots of wood left to chop, and the pressure is on.

I did not dismiss the Lovett injury.  And if Mullin were getting fired based on this year then you can make it more of an excuse.  The fact that he is not getting fired should tell you that he is already getting the benefit of the doubt on that issue.  What else do you want?  Do you think he deserves a 10 year extension?   And if you think I am kidding Pitt just fired an established coach who inherited a program sliding, a roster about to implode and this year lost several key players including his best player Ryan Luther.  That coach got exactly 2 years and had a $9.4 million buyout...And he was canned.

Again regardless of what excuse you want to give for the 4-14 league record everyone agrees that he needs to take a BIG step up next year.  Year 4 was always going to be a huge year the difference is many of us thought the improvement would come from say a 9-9 type THIRD season with at least an NIT bid. 

Quote from: Poison on March 09, 2018, 09:55:55 AM

Mullin couldn’t be bothered with this. Our players don’t shake hands because their feelings were hurt. Where is the leadership?

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/st-john-routed-xavier-big-east-tournament-quarterfinals-article-1.3863498

Chris Mack is a peeping Tom
Pointer and Obekpa repeatedly took cheap shots at guys. Where was the leadership?

Where did I say that Pointer and Obekpa provided leadership? Lavin wasn’t the answer. Mullin is f’ing terrible. This thread isn’t about Steve Lavin. It’s about the only coach in the BE arrogant enough to think he could do a job w zero experience.

Quote from: we are sju on March 09, 2018, 10:01:09 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 09, 2018, 09:55:55 AM

Mullin couldn’t be bothered with this. Our players don’t shake hands because their feelings were hurt. Where is the leadership?

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/st-john-routed-xavier-big-east-tournament-quarterfinals-article-1.3863498

Chris Mack is a peeping Tom
Pointer and Obekpa repeatedly took cheap shots at guys. Where was the leadership?

Where did I say that Pointer and Obekpa provided leadership? Lavin wasn’t the answer. Mullin is f’ing terrible. This thread isn’t about Steve Lavin. It’s about the only coach in the BE arrogant enough to think he could do a job w zero experience.

You asked where was leadership with guys getting angry about a team dunking at the buzzer in a 25 point loss that ended their season. Most normal guys would get mad at that.
Team has shown slight progress every year. Once they decided to let Lavin go they started over. If Lovett had not quit we would be in NIT. If they don't make the NCAA next year gripe away. Pretty sure you, Tony and others are hoping we are not good next year so you can say I told you so. 

I give the staff an F for this year. 5-15 is just unacceptable. If no improvement next year smell ya later Chris.

Quote from: Poison on March 09, 2018, 10:23:03 AM

Quote from: we are sju on March 09, 2018, 10:01:09 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 09, 2018, 09:55:55 AM

Mullin couldn’t be bothered with this. Our players don’t shake hands because their feelings were hurt. Where is the leadership?

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/st-john-routed-xavier-big-east-tournament-quarterfinals-article-1.3863498

Chris Mack is a peeping Tom
Pointer and Obekpa repeatedly took cheap shots at guys. Where was the leadership?

Where did I say that Pointer and Obekpa provided leadership? Lavin wasn’t the answer. Mullin is f’ing terrible. This thread isn’t about Steve Lavin. It’s about the only coach in the BE arrogant enough to think he could do a job w zero experience.

You asked where was leadership with guys getting angry about a team dunking at the buzzer in a 25 point loss that ended their season. Most normal guys would get mad at that.
Team has shown slight progress every year. Once they decided to let Lavin go they started over. If Lovett had not quit we would be in NIT. If they don't make the NCAA next year gripe away. Pretty sure you, Tony and others are hoping we are not good next year so you can say I told you so. 

Blaming LoVett is pathetic. LoVett didn’t do a horrible job building this roster. I wanted a real coach. If you’re happy with this shit, good for you. They can give him an extension to be Chris Mullin.

And there’s no I told you so next year. I’m telling you that now. I never signed up for a 4 year rebuild.

Mullin couldn’t be bothered with this. Our players don’t shake hands because their feelings were hurt. Where is the leadership?

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/st-john-routed-xavier-big-east-tournament-quarterfinals-article-1.3863498

Mullin shook hands yesterday. Didn’t say good game. Walked down the line. Didn’t move his mouth once.

Quote from: Poison on March 09, 2018, 09:55:55 AM

Mullin couldn’t be bothered with this. Our players don’t shake hands because their feelings were hurt. Where is the leadership?

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/st-john-routed-xavier-big-east-tournament-quarterfinals-article-1.3863498

Mullin shook hands yesterday. Didn’t say good game. Walked down the line. Didn’t move his mouth once.

You’d rather him say shit about the others teams players? What’s your point here

Quote from: we are sju on March 09, 2018, 10:28:33 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 09, 2018, 10:23:03 AM

Quote from: we are sju on March 09, 2018, 10:01:09 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 09, 2018, 09:55:55 AM

Mullin couldn’t be bothered with this. Our players don’t shake hands because their feelings were hurt. Where is the leadership?

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/st-john-routed-xavier-big-east-tournament-quarterfinals-article-1.3863498

Chris Mack is a peeping Tom
Pointer and Obekpa repeatedly took cheap shots at guys. Where was the leadership?

Where did I say that Pointer and Obekpa provided leadership? Lavin wasn’t the answer. Mullin is f’ing terrible. This thread isn’t about Steve Lavin. It’s about the only coach in the BE arrogant enough to think he could do a job w zero experience.

You asked where was leadership with guys getting angry about a team dunking at the buzzer in a 25 point loss that ended their season. Most normal guys would get mad at that.
Team has shown slight progress every year. Once they decided to let Lavin go they started over. If Lovett had not quit we would be in NIT. If they don't make the NCAA next year gripe away. Pretty sure you, Tony and others are hoping we are not good next year so you can say I told you so. 

Blaming LoVett is pathetic. LoVett didn’t do a horrible job building this roster. I wanted a real coach. If you’re happy with this shit, good for you. They can give him an extension to be Chris Mullin.

And there’s no I told you so next year. I’m telling you that now. I never signed up for a 4 year rebuild.

He quit if he didn't quit and we won 2 more games I would have given Mullin a B

Who signed up for four years?  Lavin came in and made us relevant in year one.  That being said, I'd give Mullin an incomplete.  Losing Lovett had to cost us seven or eight of the close losses we suffered through.  Don't underestimate that loss.  On some level it's like when the Nets built its team around Dr. J.  They won championships.  The season he left for Philadelphia, the Nets tanked.
 We  probably would have had as many as 22 wins with Lovett on board.  That would have brought us to our usual high level of mediocrity this team and its fans have "enjoyed" with a few exceptions since the early 1950s.

It's on Mullin that we've had players who could have helped us jump ship.  I guess we'll have more players jumping ship.  This is something else that killed us.  If we ended at 15 and 16 with Lovett on board, Mullin would have earned an F.

Quote from: TONYD3 on March 09, 2018, 11:04:05 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 09, 2018, 09:55:55 AM

Mullin couldn’t be bothered with this. Our players don’t shake hands because their feelings were hurt. Where is the leadership?

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/st-john-routed-xavier-big-east-tournament-quarterfinals-article-1.3863498

Mullin shook hands yesterday. Didn’t say good game. Walked down the line. Didn’t move his mouth once.

You’d rather him say shit about the others teams players? What’s your point here

Coach K would have gone up to kid who dunked and called him out on it. He has done it before.
Mullin did nothing wrong. They would have said he was a sore loser if he said something to Mack.
Agreeing with you Mase