Owens Leaving

Quote from: Classof2013 on March 18, 2018, 12:58:24 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on March 18, 2018, 12:55:14 PM

Quote from: RedmenNYC on March 18, 2018, 12:43:16 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on March 18, 2018, 12:07:35 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 18, 2018, 11:57:06 AM

10th place finish next year

10th place needs to happen. He got a B last week. The other site would have given him a higher grade. Rock bottom has to hit. Then we can really start the complete rebuild again.

Utter nonsense. I'm rooting for winning.  Why aren't you?

I don’t think real wining is possible. We just lost Owens, Ahmed, and yakwe. Lovett quit and hasn’t been replaced. What is the ceiling on Thiis upcoming season ? Are the 4 players we lost being replaced? Is anyone else leaving?
How can you expect to win?

Do you not realize that we have two transfers and a Top 100 guard playing next year? I'm not totally optimistic about next year, especially in light of losing Owens, but to make it sound like we have zero hope is absolutely ludicrous.

I am aware of the new players. Are they better, equal or worse then the guys who left?

They all sound like Big East players (Roberts and Ellington being projects/shouldn't be expected to contribute greatly), and we'd have more than 6 players who can play. I'm not terribly concerned about replacing Bashir Ahmed or AA, are you? We also aren't even done with this season, so who knows who we ultimately end up getting from the 5th year transfer market/juco/freshman class.

Ponds can very well (and perhaps should) be the Preseason Big East Player of the Year. Simon should be on a all-big east preseason team. If Ponds leaves, I'm with you in being pessimistic. As of now, he's on the team. So calm down.

I keep reading “we have depth next year” but is that quantity over quality? We don’t know, what we do know is that we are losing a guy who is a 3 year player in a program that seems to be catered to guys like Owens.  I don’t care if we have 20 guys on roster next year, keep kids that have helped improve win total since year one. Even if it’s just a few games.

Quote from: Classof2013 on March 18, 2018, 12:58:24 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on March 18, 2018, 12:55:14 PM

Quote from: RedmenNYC on March 18, 2018, 12:43:16 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on March 18, 2018, 12:07:35 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 18, 2018, 11:57:06 AM

10th place finish next year

10th place needs to happen. He got a B last week. The other site would have given him a higher grade. Rock bottom has to hit. Then we can really start the complete rebuild again.

Utter nonsense. I'm rooting for winning.  Why aren't you?

I don’t think real wining is possible. We just lost Owens, Ahmed, and yakwe. Lovett quit and hasn’t been replaced. What is the ceiling on Thiis upcoming season ? Are the 4 players we lost being replaced? Is anyone else leaving?
How can you expect to win?

Do you not realize that we have two transfers and a Top 100 guard playing next year? I'm not totally optimistic about next year, especially in light of losing Owens, but to make it sound like we have zero hope is absolutely ludicrous.

I am aware of the new players. Are they better, equal or worse then the guys who left?

The freshman are projects. The two transfers are passable.

I keep reading “we have depth next year” but is that quantity over quality? We don’t know, what we do know is that we are losing a guy who is a 3 year player in a program that seems to be catered to guys like Owens.  I don’t care if we have 20 guys on roster next year, keep kids that have helped improve win total since year one. Even if it’s just a few games.

That’s the biggest problem w Owens leaving coupling that w loosing Bash, unless we pick up a BE caliber grad transfer or JUCO ,we don’t have depth. W the possible exception of Williams, can’t count on the other recruits to really contribute as frosh.

Quote from: TONYD3 on March 18, 2018, 01:31:56 PM

Quote from: Classof2013 on March 18, 2018, 12:58:24 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on March 18, 2018, 12:55:14 PM

Quote from: RedmenNYC on March 18, 2018, 12:43:16 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on March 18, 2018, 12:07:35 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 18, 2018, 11:57:06 AM

10th place finish next year

10th place needs to happen. He got a B last week. The other site would have given him a higher grade. Rock bottom has to hit. Then we can really start the complete rebuild again.

Utter nonsense. I'm rooting for winning.  Why aren't you?

I don’t think real wining is possible. We just lost Owens, Ahmed, and yakwe. Lovett quit and hasn’t been replaced. What is the ceiling on Thiis upcoming season ? Are the 4 players we lost being replaced? Is anyone else leaving?
How can you expect to win?

Do you not realize that we have two transfers and a Top 100 guard playing next year? I'm not totally optimistic about next year, especially in light of losing Owens, but to make it sound like we have zero hope is absolutely ludicrous.

I am aware of the new players. Are they better, equal or worse then the guys who left?

The freshman are projects. The two transfers are passable.

Earlington isn't a project. He's a skilled kid. I don't know how his game will translate at 6'5, but he already has more skill than Owens and Yakwe combined times four.

The tournament has made me more positive about Dixon. There are a ton of kids with his profile that are tearing it up after their transfers for bigger teams. Worst case seems to be a player similar to Mussini. Best case might a similar player to Rowsey, who averaged 19.2 and 2.9 at UNC Asheville as a soph. I just wish we had a competent strength and conditioning staff to put some
weight on the kid. It's clearest path for improvement for him.

Quote from: rdstr25 on March 18, 2018, 01:49:28 PM

I keep reading “we have depth next year” but is that quantity over quality? We don’t know, what we do know is that we are losing a guy who is a 3 year player in a program that seems to be catered to guys like Owens.  I don’t care if we have 20 guys on roster next year, keep kids that have helped improve win total since year one. Even if it’s just a few games.

That’s the biggest problem w Owens leaving coupling that w loosing Bash, unless we pick up a BE caliber grad transfer or JUCO ,we don’t have depth. W the possible exception of Williams, can’t count on the other recruits to really contribute as frosh.

Keita and Dixon replacing Owens and Bash are a wash. Senior Alibegovic and freshman Roberts are a wash year one. Williams puts us in the plus column for depth.

We have to be an attractive grad transfer destination with a player like Ponds and a glaring need for a center and point guard.

So, you have no idea how much can be counted against the staff? Finally, we agree

No, we don't agree. On the one hand everything can be counted against the staff. On the other hand nothing can. It's all very zen and way above your head. Because you're stupid. Google the Dunning–Kruger effect for information on how stupid exactly.

What has happened to your super power of staff analysis? It’s now gone? When Lavin was here, you could analyze every word he said. But Chris Mullin is too complicated of a fellow. Ok.

When Lavin was here I analyzed every word he said as a public service, because Lavin is mentally ill. Coo coo for coco puffs crazy as a loon stark raving mad a a hatter. You don't see it because for all your I'm-the-toughest-guy-in Scarsdale talk you're a rube and not a very bright one: you make Jethro Bodine look like Stephen Hawking. Mullin otoh is not insane. He might be in over his head, I doubt it - because you don't have to be smart to be a coach -  but he might be. In any event I don't care to analyze every word he says because I don't care to and because anyway he doesn't say much. There's nothing about condiments, nothing about magic carpet rides to Costco with Batman. Mulln doesn't inflate every mundane event in his life to a Shakespearean tragedy, because he's not insane. As is your pretend girlfriend Stephanie Lavin.

Let me help you. Lavin has brought in one great player. 3 quality role players. Every other player, recruit and attempt at a recruit has been a complete failure. One isolated incident isn’t a coach’s fault. This entire mess heading into year 4 is.

A, if you're going to help me, try being coherent, because as far as I can tell you misplet Mullins - although out of the mouths of rubes Lavin did bring in one great player and a bunch of role players; Lavin had the good fortune to have kept them around long enough so that they could over come his complete and utter incompetence as a basketball coach. He also brought in psychopaths like Obekpa and killers like Jordan and garbage like Amar Alibagodounts. B, if Lavin wasn't such a complete and utter incompetent - since you brought him up - SJ would not have found itself in the dire circumstances in which it finds itself. C, Mullin owns what Mullin owns, the good, the bad and the ugly. Whatever. As I said, I'm not the Baby Jesus, god can assign the blame, I just like to watch the games.

Yes, I mean the NBA, because guys playing in the pros in Italy and Germany, no one gives a Sh*t about.  Those other coaches you speak of, 2 have a Big East Championship,  2 had players  drafted in the lottery and all 3 have kids in the pros.  When you stack up those guys to Mullin, they are running circles around him.  So yeah, when I say Mullin has 0 pros and can't coach, kids and parents see it, which is why he can't land big time recruits in year 4.

Who was Mullin supposed to send to the NBA, Ron Mvoika?

Again, you are missing the point. Mullin has been here 3 years, so I was not expecting pros but what I am saying is, if a coach can not develop players, or has not shown to move guys on to the next level, it’s very difficult to bring in top talent.

Other than transfers, he has 1 kid in top 50 out of high school in 3 years of recruiting, minus year one. If Ponds gets to NBA, then he will have some more to say in a kids living room then “we are trying to build something”. 

Quote from: Poison on March 18, 2018, 11:08:23 AM

So, you have no idea how much can be counted against the staff? Finally, we agree

No, we don't agree. On the one hand everything can be counted against the staff. On the other hand nothing can. It's all very zen and way above your head. Because you're stupid. Google the Dunning–Kruger effect for information on how stupid exactly.

Quote

What has happened to your super power of staff analysis? It’s now gone? When Lavin was here, you could analyze every word he said. But Chris Mullin is too complicated of a fellow. Ok.

When Lavin was here I analyzed every word he said as a public service, because Lavin is mentally ill. Coo coo for coco puffs crazy as a loon stark raving mad a a hatter. You don't see it because for all your I'm-the-toughest-guy-in Scarsdale talk you're a rube and not a very bright one: you make Jethro Bodine look like Stephen Hawking. Mullin otoh is not insane. He might be in over his head, I doubt it - because you don't have to be smart to be a coach -  but he might be. In any event I don't care to analyze every word he says because I don't care to and because anyway he doesn't say much. There's nothing about condiments, nothing about magic carpet rides to Costco with Batman. Mulln doesn't inflate every mundane event in his life to a Shakespearean tragedy, because he's not insane. As is your pretend girlfriend Stephanie Lavin.

Quote

Let me help you. Lavin has brought in one great player. 3 quality role players. Every other player, recruit and attempt at a recruit has been a complete failure. One isolated incident isn’t a coach’s fault. This entire mess heading into year 4 is.

A, if you're going to help me, try being coherent, because as far as I can tell you misplet Mullins - although out of the mouths of rubes Lavin did bring in one great player and a bunch of role players; Lavin had the good fortune to have kept them around long enough so that they could over come his complete and utter incompetence as a basketball coach. He also brought in psychopaths like Obekpa and killers like Jordan and garbage like Amar Alibagodounts. B, if Lavin wasn't such a complete and utter incompetent - since you brought him up - SJ would not have found itself in the dire circumstances in which it finds itself. C, Mullin owns what Mullin owns, the good, the bad and the ugly. Whatever. As I said, I'm not the Baby Jesus, god can assign the blame, I just like to watch the games.

By your logic Carnesecca was awful as well because he brought in a murderer. See how dumb you are now? We keep having these debates and you keep losing. Haven’t you had enough?

We keep having these debates and you keep losing.

You think I'm losing because you're too stupid to know that you're so stupid that you're too stupid to know that you're too stupid to know that you lost a long time ago.

Quote from: rdstr25 on March 17, 2018, 12:14:18 AM

Yes, I mean the NBA, because guys playing in the pros in Italy and Germany, no one gives a Sh*t about.  Those other coaches you speak of, 2 have a Big East Championship,  2 had players  drafted in the lottery and all 3 have kids in the pros.  When you stack up those guys to Mullin, they are running circles around him.  So yeah, when I say Mullin has 0 pros and can't coach, kids and parents see it, which is why he can't land big time recruits in year 4.

Who was Mullin supposed to send to the NBA, Ron Mvoika?

Who’s a better player? Kassoum Yakwe as a senior in high school, or Kassoum Yakwe now?

Good and even decent coaches turn unknowns into nba players or at least into successful pros overseas. Now would be a great time for you to bring up Mussini and Freudenberg because Mullin coached them up to $45k per year salaries in Europe.

Quote from: Foad on March 18, 2018, 04:48:23 PM

Quote from: rdstr25 on March 17, 2018, 12:14:18 AM

Yes, I mean the NBA, because guys playing in the pros in Italy and Germany, no one gives a Sh*t about.  Those other coaches you speak of, 2 have a Big East Championship,  2 had players  drafted in the lottery and all 3 have kids in the pros.  When you stack up those guys to Mullin, they are running circles around him.  So yeah, when I say Mullin has 0 pros and can't coach, kids and parents see it, which is why he can't land big time recruits in year 4.

Who was Mullin supposed to send to the NBA, Ron Mvoika?

Who’s a better player? Kassoum Yakwe as a senior in high school, or Kassoum Yakwe now?

Good and even decent coaches turn unknowns into nba players or at least into successful pros overseas. Now would be a great time for you to bring up Mussini and Freudenberg because Mullin coached them up to $45k per year salaries in Europe.

There is no coach in the country who could turn Kassoum Yakwe into an NBA player. Or Mussini, or Freudenburg. It was clear to anyone with eyes that they were simply hyped up beyond their ability to meet expectations. It happens all the time. There are plenty of areas to bash Mullin, but lack of NBA players after 3 seasons is not one of them.

The transfers are very concerning. However, I don't think Owens is irreplaceable. Keita was a highly rated recruit and Roberts looks like he should be at least serviceable for bench minutes. Hopefully he's better than Alibegovic.

Quote from: Poison on March 18, 2018, 07:57:12 PM

Quote from: Foad on March 18, 2018, 04:48:23 PM

Quote from: rdstr25 on March 17, 2018, 12:14:18 AM

Yes, I mean the NBA, because guys playing in the pros in Italy and Germany, no one gives a Sh*t about.  Those other coaches you speak of, 2 have a Big East Championship,  2 had players  drafted in the lottery and all 3 have kids in the pros.  When you stack up those guys to Mullin, they are running circles around him.  So yeah, when I say Mullin has 0 pros and can't coach, kids and parents see it, which is why he can't land big time recruits in year 4.

Who was Mullin supposed to send to the NBA, Ron Mvoika?

Who’s a better player? Kassoum Yakwe as a senior in high school, or Kassoum Yakwe now?

Good and even decent coaches turn unknowns into nba players or at least into successful pros overseas. Now would be a great time for you to bring up Mussini and Freudenberg because Mullin coached them up to $45k per year salaries in Europe.

There is no coach in the country who could turn Kassoum Yakwe into an NBA player. Or Mussini, or Freudenburg. It was clear to anyone with eyes that they were simply hyped up beyond their ability to meet expectations. It happens all the time. There are plenty of areas to bash Mullin, but lack of NBA players after 3 seasons is not one of them.

The transfers are very concerning. However, I don't think Owens is irreplaceable. Keita was a highly rated recruit and Roberts looks like he should be at least serviceable for bench minutes. Hopefully he's better than Alibegovic.

I think it all comes down to who else goes (Yakwe is obviously expendable. I wouldn't quit on Trimble but it's not a big deal. If Ponds goes, we're in huge trouble), and how we play the transfer/grad transfer market. Owens is replaceable.

Quote from: Poison on March 18, 2018, 07:57:12 PM

Quote from: Foad on March 18, 2018, 04:48:23 PM

Quote from: rdstr25 on March 17, 2018, 12:14:18 AM

Yes, I mean the NBA, because guys playing in the pros in Italy and Germany, no one gives a Sh*t about.  Those other coaches you speak of, 2 have a Big East Championship,  2 had players  drafted in the lottery and all 3 have kids in the pros.  When you stack up those guys to Mullin, they are running circles around him.  So yeah, when I say Mullin has 0 pros and can't coach, kids and parents see it, which is why he can't land big time recruits in year 4.

Who was Mullin supposed to send to the NBA, Ron Mvoika?

Who’s a better player? Kassoum Yakwe as a senior in high school, or Kassoum Yakwe now?

Good and even decent coaches turn unknowns into nba players or at least into successful pros overseas. Now would be a great time for you to bring up Mussini and Freudenberg because Mullin coached them up to $45k per year salaries in Europe.

There is no coach in the country who could turn Kassoum Yakwe into an NBA player. Or Mussini, or Freudenburg. It was clear to anyone with eyes that they were simply hyped up beyond their ability to meet expectations. It happens all the time. There are plenty of areas to bash Mullin, but lack of NBA players after 3 seasons is not one of them.

The transfers are very concerning. However, I don't think Owens is irreplaceable. Keita was a highly rated recruit and Roberts looks like he should be at least serviceable for bench minutes. Hopefully he's better than Alibegovic.

Yakwe had plenty of high intrest. I don’t think he ever would have been great. He absolutely should have contributed to a 9th place big east team. Our crappy staff deserves plenty of blame for that.

Quote from: redstorm212 on March 18, 2018, 08:22:00 PM

Quote from: Poison on March 18, 2018, 07:57:12 PM

Quote from: Foad on March 18, 2018, 04:48:23 PM

Quote from: rdstr25 on March 17, 2018, 12:14:18 AM

Yes, I mean the NBA, because guys playing in the pros in Italy and Germany, no one gives a Sh*t about.  Those other coaches you speak of, 2 have a Big East Championship,  2 had players  drafted in the lottery and all 3 have kids in the pros.  When you stack up those guys to Mullin, they are running circles around him.  So yeah, when I say Mullin has 0 pros and can't coach, kids and parents see it, which is why he can't land big time recruits in year 4.

Who was Mullin supposed to send to the NBA, Ron Mvoika?

Who’s a better player? Kassoum Yakwe as a senior in high school, or Kassoum Yakwe now?

Good and even decent coaches turn unknowns into nba players or at least into successful pros overseas. Now would be a great time for you to bring up Mussini and Freudenberg because Mullin coached them up to $45k per year salaries in Europe.

There is no coach in the country who could turn Kassoum Yakwe into an NBA player. Or Mussini, or Freudenburg. It was clear to anyone with eyes that they were simply hyped up beyond their ability to meet expectations. It happens all the time. There are plenty of areas to bash Mullin, but lack of NBA players after 3 seasons is not one of them.

The transfers are very concerning. However, I don't think Owens is irreplaceable. Keita was a highly rated recruit and Roberts looks like he should be at least serviceable for bench minutes. Hopefully he's better than Alibegovic.

Yakwe had plenty of high intrest. I don’t think he ever would have been great. He absolutely should have contributed to a 9th place big east team. Our crappy staff deserves plenty of blame for that.

Highly rated, yes. But plenty of highly rated recruits don't pan out. He's one of them. He just isn't good.

Quote from: TONYD3 on March 18, 2018, 08:31:40 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on March 18, 2018, 08:22:00 PM

Quote from: Poison on March 18, 2018, 07:57:12 PM

Quote from: Foad on March 18, 2018, 04:48:23 PM

Quote from: rdstr25 on March 17, 2018, 12:14:18 AM

Yes, I mean the NBA, because guys playing in the pros in Italy and Germany, no one gives a Sh*t about.  Those other coaches you speak of, 2 have a Big East Championship,  2 had players  drafted in the lottery and all 3 have kids in the pros.  When you stack up those guys to Mullin, they are running circles around him.  So yeah, when I say Mullin has 0 pros and can't coach, kids and parents see it, which is why he can't land big time recruits in year 4.

Who was Mullin supposed to send to the NBA, Ron Mvoika?

Who’s a better player? Kassoum Yakwe as a senior in high school, or Kassoum Yakwe now?

Good and even decent coaches turn unknowns into nba players or at least into successful pros overseas. Now would be a great time for you to bring up Mussini and Freudenberg because Mullin coached them up to $45k per year salaries in Europe.

There is no coach in the country who could turn Kassoum Yakwe into an NBA player. Or Mussini, or Freudenburg. It was clear to anyone with eyes that they were simply hyped up beyond their ability to meet expectations. It happens all the time. There are plenty of areas to bash Mullin, but lack of NBA players after 3 seasons is not one of them.

The transfers are very concerning. However, I don't think Owens is irreplaceable. Keita was a highly rated recruit and Roberts looks like he should be at least serviceable for bench minutes. Hopefully he's better than Alibegovic.

Yakwe had plenty of high intrest. I don’t think he ever would have been great. He absolutely should have contributed to a 9th place big east team. Our crappy staff deserves plenty of blame for that.

Highly rated, yes. But plenty of highly rated recruits don't pan out. He's one of them. He just isn't good.

There are a lot of reasons why a recruit doesn’t pan out. It could be that they’re overrated. They could commit a crime and never even make it to campus. They could change their mind and leave the program after 2 weeks. Others will get hurt and not want to risk further  injury by playing through it.

An isolated incident isn’t a coach’s fault, but when you add it all up, you get one consistent example of incompetence. 3 years ago the university removed an incompetent coach. Then they hired one that made him look good by comparison.

Quote from: redstorm212 on March 18, 2018, 09:14:33 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on March 18, 2018, 08:31:40 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on March 18, 2018, 08:22:00 PM

Quote from: Poison on March 18, 2018, 07:57:12 PM

Quote from: Foad on March 18, 2018, 04:48:23 PM

Quote from: rdstr25 on March 17, 2018, 12:14:18 AM

Yes, I mean the NBA, because guys playing in the pros in Italy and Germany, no one gives a Sh*t about.  Those other coaches you speak of, 2 have a Big East Championship,  2 had players  drafted in the lottery and all 3 have kids in the pros.  When you stack up those guys to Mullin, they are running circles around him.  So yeah, when I say Mullin has 0 pros and can't coach, kids and parents see it, which is why he can't land big time recruits in year 4.

Who was Mullin supposed to send to the NBA, Ron Mvoika?

Who’s a better player? Kassoum Yakwe as a senior in high school, or Kassoum Yakwe now?

Good and even decent coaches turn unknowns into nba players or at least into successful pros overseas. Now would be a great time for you to bring up Mussini and Freudenberg because Mullin coached them up to $45k per year salaries in Europe.

There is no coach in the country who could turn Kassoum Yakwe into an NBA player. Or Mussini, or Freudenburg. It was clear to anyone with eyes that they were simply hyped up beyond their ability to meet expectations. It happens all the time. There are plenty of areas to bash Mullin, but lack of NBA players after 3 seasons is not one of them.

The transfers are very concerning. However, I don't think Owens is irreplaceable. Keita was a highly rated recruit and Roberts looks like he should be at least serviceable for bench minutes. Hopefully he's better than Alibegovic.

Yakwe had plenty of high intrest. I don’t think he ever would have been great. He absolutely should have contributed to a 9th place big east team. Our crappy staff deserves plenty of blame for that.

Highly rated, yes. But plenty of highly rated recruits don't pan out. He's one of them. He just isn't good.

There are a lot of reasons why a recruit doesn’t pan out. It could be that they’re overrated. They could commit a crime and never even make it to campus. They could change their mind and leave the program after 2 weeks. Others will get hurt and not want to risk further  injury by playing through it.

An isolated incident isn’t a coach’s fault, but when you add it all up, you get one consistent example of incompetence. 3 years ago the university removed an incompetent coach. Then they hired one that made him look good by comparison.

I mean, you're right, players don't pan out for a variety of reasons. But a players talent shines through eventually. If Yakwe becomes a pro somewhere someday I'll be proven wrong. If Mussini and Freudenberg had talent they'd still be in America.

I just don't think this is something to knock Mullin for yet. He hasn't even been here 4 years. Ponds is probably going to be in the NBA.

T.O. is a good kid.Im hearing there is a lack of trust somewhere within,also lack of team discipline,or leadershp from Staff.Again this s rumors coming from teammates/friends.Heard the kid just wanted to explore,yet certain media were informed from Staff, that he he did not ask for release.This is what pissed dad off we are told.I love this kid attitude,wish he stay,yet the rumors surrounding the decision doesnt sound  positive.Thoughts?

T.O. is a good kid.Im hearing there is a lack of trust somewhere within,also lack of team discipline,or leadershp from Staff.Again this s rumors coming from teammates/friends.Heard the kid just wanted to explore,yet certain media were informed from Staff, that he he did not ask for release.This is what pissed dad off we are told.I love this kid attitude,wish he stay,yet the rumors surrounding the decision doesnt sound  positive.Thoughts?

Have a good night, Mr. Owens.