Owens Leaving

T.O. is a good kid.Im hearing there is a lack of trust somewhere within,also lack of team discipline,or leadershp from Staff.Again this s rumors coming from teammates/friends.Heard the kid just wanted to explore,yet certain media were informed from Staff, that he he did not ask for release.This is what pissed dad off we are told.I love this kid attitude,wish he stay,yet the rumors surrounding the decision doesnt sound  positive.Thoughts?

The question is, what school is offering him the better opportunity? He was projected as a starter for a high major university. What other power 6 school is offering him that? For a guy who is only averaging 8 points a game he really needs to put his skill set into perspective.

Only thing I agree with is that he is a good kid. I can say a lot about his game, but I must admit  he is a well mannered and good kid. I’ll give kudos to his upbringing for that. 

But it seems him and his father took that risk without a guarantee of where he was going. Bad move on his father’s part. This is a critical year for C.M. and the team so you can’t blame C.M. for not wanting to deal with this nonsense. If he doesn’t want to be here ( no problem with that), but he has to be prepared for that blow back.

About the leadership part. It seems Mullin runs his team like they’re NBA players. Maybe it doesn’t work, maybe it does. We’ll never know.

Heard the kid just wanted to explore,yet certain media were informed from Staff, that he he did not ask for release.This is what pissed dad off we are told.

IF this is true, (1) why would Owens' father care what Zach"Jared from Subway" Braziller had to say? It's highly unlikely that nasally dweeb got a hold of a staff member in the short time between Evan Daniel's tweet and Braziller's hold your horses response and (2) we
miat have the only "journalist" that actively sabotages the team be covers. He started a public fight with a 17 year old Rawls Alkins two years ago as well.

Sucks to lose Owens but could be worse. Imagine being fan of the program that is bringing in Owens so he can shoot more?

Sucks to lose Owens but could be worse. Imagine being fan of the program that is bringing in Owens so he can shoot more?

Or the program that thinks they're getting an impact player, but then finds out he spends most of his time on the bench after picking up 2 quick stupid fouls within the first 4 minutes of the game.

In a perfect world Owens gives us 20-25 minutes split between the 4 and 5.  Would be great to have him but not gonna lose sleep over it. Of the 4 would be returning starters hes the least important.

In a perfect world Owens gives us 20-25 minutes split between the 4 and 5.  Would be great to have him but not gonna lose sleep over it. Of the 4 would be returning starters hes the least important.

If he knew his role and committed to it he would be a really nice piece. If he thinks he deserves a bigger role in the offense and isn't committed to at least getting a little stronger.... then I agree.

Quote from: Factsonly on March 19, 2018, 02:12:41 AM

Heard the kid just wanted to explore,yet certain media were informed from Staff, that he he did not ask for release.This is what pissed dad off we are told.

IF this is true, (1) why would Owens' father care what Zach"Jared from Subway" Braziller had to say? It's highly unlikely that nasally dweeb got a hold of a staff member in the short time between Evan Daniel's tweet and Braziller's hold your horses response and (2) we
miat have the only "journalist" that actively sabotages the team be covers. He started a public fight with a 17 year old Rawls Alkins two years ago as well.

Supposedly Owens met with staff and said everything was fine, then the Evan Daniels tweet. Staff none to pleased. Don't think  he's welcomed back

Quote from: Foad on March 18, 2018, 04:48:23 PM

Quote from: rdstr25 on March 17, 2018, 12:14:18 AM

Yes, I mean the NBA, because guys playing in the pros in Italy and Germany, no one gives a Sh*t about.  Those other coaches you speak of, 2 have a Big East Championship,  2 had players  drafted in the lottery and all 3 have kids in the pros.  When you stack up those guys to Mullin, they are running circles around him.  So yeah, when I say Mullin has 0 pros and can't coach, kids and parents see it, which is why he can't land big time recruits in year 4.

Who was Mullin supposed to send to the NBA, Ron Mvoika?

Who’s a better player? Kassoum Yakwe as a senior in high school, or Kassoum Yakwe now?

No idea, I don't watch HS basketball. He's not as good now as he was a freshman, I'll give you that.

Good and even decent coaches turn unknowns into nba players or at least into successful pros overseas. Now would be a great time for you to bring up Mussini and Freudenberg because Mullin coached them up to $45k per year salaries in Europe.

You know what I find passing strange? I was hoping that Mullin would make the NIT this year. That I thought was a reasonable expectation in year three. Whereas you think he's a failure because he hasn't made the Sweet Sixteen with a bunch of unknowns he magically transformed into NBA players. You might as well complain that he hasn't turned water into wine and raised the dead.

Again, you are missing the point. Mullin has been here 3 years, so I was not expecting pros but what I am saying is, if a coach can not develop players, or has not shown to move guys on to the next level, it’s very difficult to bring in top talent.

Other than transfers, he has 1 kid in top 50 out of high school in 3 years of recruiting, minus year one. If Ponds gets to NBA, then he will have some more to say in a kids living room then “we are trying to build something”. 

I don't think I'm missing the point. Mullin's results this far have been disappointing, wins and losses wise. His recruiting has to me been good enough - he has six professional BB players on his roster; two of those - Ponds and Simon - are potential NBA players; Clark, Ahmed, Lovett and Owens will play in Europe. Coaching wise he's no Doug McDermott's father, but he's adequate and he's getting better. I wouldn't trade him for Willard or Wojo. The big concern to me is the roster churn. It's very bad and needs to be addressed.

Quote from: rdstr25 on March 18, 2018, 05:06:19 PM

Again, you are missing the point. Mullin has been here 3 years, so I was not expecting pros but what I am saying is, if a coach can not develop players, or has not shown to move guys on to the next level, it’s very difficult to bring in top talent.

Other than transfers, he has 1 kid in top 50 out of high school in 3 years of recruiting, minus year one. If Ponds gets to NBA, then he will have some more to say in a kids living room then “we are trying to build something”. 

I don't think I'm missing the point. Mullin's results this far have been disappointing, wins and losses wise. His recruiting has to me been good enough - he has six professional BB players on his roster; two of those - Ponds and Simon - are potential NBA players; Clark, Ahmed, Lovett and Owens will play in Europe. Coaching wise he's no Doug McDermott's father, but he's adequate and he's getting better. I wouldn't trade him for Willard or Wojo. The big concern to me is the roster churn. It's very bad and needs to be addressed.

Going to be long off season. At least there will only be one more year of Mullin griping. If we make the tourney it will stop, if we don't then school / Mullin probably go in another direction.

Quote from: Foad on March 19, 2018, 04:48:40 PM

Quote from: rdstr25 on March 18, 2018, 05:06:19 PM

Again, you are missing the point. Mullin has been here 3 years, so I was not expecting pros but what I am saying is, if a coach can not develop players, or has not shown to move guys on to the next level, it’s very difficult to bring in top talent.

Other than transfers, he has 1 kid in top 50 out of high school in 3 years of recruiting, minus year one. If Ponds gets to NBA, then he will have some more to say in a kids living room then “we are trying to build something”. 

I don't think I'm missing the point. Mullin's results this far have been disappointing, wins and losses wise. His recruiting has to me been good enough - he has six professional BB players on his roster; two of those - Ponds and Simon - are potential NBA players; Clark, Ahmed, Lovett and Owens will play in Europe. Coaching wise he's no Doug McDermott's father, but he's adequate and he's getting better. I wouldn't trade him for Willard or Wojo. The big concern to me is the roster churn. It's very bad and needs to be addressed.

Going to be long off season. At least there will only be one more year of Mullin griping. If we make the tourney it will stop, if we don't then school / Mullin probably go in another direction.

You seem to hate the complainng, which I understand in some way. But what should be posted. We just lost another player. Yakwe will be gone soon. It wouldn't be a shock if trimble left. Ponds could go pro. Coaching staff stayed the same. Should we just trust the process and say prayers that mikey dixon becomes David Cain.
Something postive should come out soon, if not how can anyone be in favor of keeping this staff one more season. 3 scholarships to fill. Roster churn is term for fantasy sports not for college basketball

Quote from: Poison on March 18, 2018, 09:30:51 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on March 18, 2018, 09:14:33 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on March 18, 2018, 08:31:40 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on March 18, 2018, 08:22:00 PM

Quote from: Poison on March 18, 2018, 07:57:12 PM

Quote from: Foad on March 18, 2018, 04:48:23 PM

Quote from: rdstr25 on March 17, 2018, 12:14:18 AM

Yes, I mean the NBA, because guys playing in the pros in Italy and Germany, no one gives a Sh*t about.  Those other coaches you speak of, 2 have a Big East Championship,  2 had players  drafted in the lottery and all 3 have kids in the pros.  When you stack up those guys to Mullin, they are running circles around him.  So yeah, when I say Mullin has 0 pros and can't coach, kids and parents see it, which is why he can't land big time recruits in year 4.

Who was Mullin supposed to send to the NBA, Ron Mvoika?

Who’s a better player? Kassoum Yakwe as a senior in high school, or Kassoum Yakwe now?

Good and even decent coaches turn unknowns into nba players or at least into successful pros overseas. Now would be a great time for you to bring up Mussini and Freudenberg because Mullin coached them up to $45k per year salaries in Europe.

There is no coach in the country who could turn Kassoum Yakwe into an NBA player. Or Mussini, or Freudenburg. It was clear to anyone with eyes that they were simply hyped up beyond their ability to meet expectations. It happens all the time. There are plenty of areas to bash Mullin, but lack of NBA players after 3 seasons is not one of them.

The transfers are very concerning. However, I don't think Owens is irreplaceable. Keita was a highly rated recruit and Roberts looks like he should be at least serviceable for bench minutes. Hopefully he's better than Alibegovic.

Yakwe had plenty of high intrest. I don’t think he ever would have been great. He absolutely should have contributed to a 9th place big east team. Our crappy staff deserves plenty of blame for that.

Highly rated, yes. But plenty of highly rated recruits don't pan out. He's one of them. He just isn't good.

There are a lot of reasons why a recruit doesn’t pan out. It could be that they’re overrated. They could commit a crime and never even make it to campus. They could change their mind and leave the program after 2 weeks. Others will get hurt and not want to risk further  injury by playing through it.

An isolated incident isn’t a coach’s fault, but when you add it all up, you get one consistent example of incompetence. 3 years ago the university removed an incompetent coach. Then they hired one that made him look good by comparison.

I mean, you're right, players don't pan out for a variety of reasons. But a players talent shines through eventually. If Yakwe becomes a pro somewhere someday I'll be proven wrong. If Mussini and Freudenberg had talent they'd still be in America.

I just don't think this is something to knock Mullin for yet. He hasn't even been here 4 years. Ponds is probably going to be in the NBA.

Mussini, for all of his faults, would have helped this team much more than Trimble did.

Quote from: redstorm212 on March 18, 2018, 09:37:50 PM

Quote from: Poison on March 18, 2018, 09:30:51 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on March 18, 2018, 09:14:33 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on March 18, 2018, 08:31:40 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on March 18, 2018, 08:22:00 PM

Quote from: Poison on March 18, 2018, 07:57:12 PM

Quote from: Foad on March 18, 2018, 04:48:23 PM

Quote from: rdstr25 on March 17, 2018, 12:14:18 AM

Yes, I mean the NBA, because guys playing in the pros in Italy and Germany, no one gives a Sh*t about.  Those other coaches you speak of, 2 have a Big East Championship,  2 had players  drafted in the lottery and all 3 have kids in the pros.  When you stack up those guys to Mullin, they are running circles around him.  So yeah, when I say Mullin has 0 pros and can't coach, kids and parents see it, which is why he can't land big time recruits in year 4.

Who was Mullin supposed to send to the NBA, Ron Mvoika?

Who’s a better player? Kassoum Yakwe as a senior in high school, or Kassoum Yakwe now?

Good and even decent coaches turn unknowns into nba players or at least into successful pros overseas. Now would be a great time for you to bring up Mussini and Freudenberg because Mullin coached them up to $45k per year salaries in Europe.

There is no coach in the country who could turn Kassoum Yakwe into an NBA player. Or Mussini, or Freudenburg. It was clear to anyone with eyes that they were simply hyped up beyond their ability to meet expectations. It happens all the time. There are plenty of areas to bash Mullin, but lack of NBA players after 3 seasons is not one of them.

The transfers are very concerning. However, I don't think Owens is irreplaceable. Keita was a highly rated recruit and Roberts looks like he should be at least serviceable for bench minutes. Hopefully he's better than Alibegovic.

Yakwe had plenty of high intrest. I don’t think he ever would have been great. He absolutely should have contributed to a 9th place big east team. Our crappy staff deserves plenty of blame for that.

Highly rated, yes. But plenty of highly rated recruits don't pan out. He's one of them. He just isn't good.

There are a lot of reasons why a recruit doesn’t pan out. It could be that they’re overrated. They could commit a crime and never even make it to campus. They could change their mind and leave the program after 2 weeks. Others will get hurt and not want to risk further  injury by playing through it.

An isolated incident isn’t a coach’s fault, but when you add it all up, you get one consistent example of incompetence. 3 years ago the university removed an incompetent coach. Then they hired one that made him look good by comparison.

I mean, you're right, players don't pan out for a variety of reasons. But a players talent shines through eventually. If Yakwe becomes a pro somewhere someday I'll be proven wrong. If Mussini and Freudenberg had talent they'd still be in America.

I just don't think this is something to knock Mullin for yet. He hasn't even been here 4 years. Ponds is probably going to be in the NBA.

Mussini, for all of his faults, would have helped this team much more than Trimble did.

I think we danced with him. We had a complete lack of ball handling and he wasn't bad.

Mussini and even though I very much disliked his game, Ellison would have kept this team afloat during the Lovett saga and given us a chance most likely. But also if Lovett didn't get his period he would have also helped. I hate playing the what if game all it does is hurt.

Mussini and even though I very much disliked his game, Ellison would have kept this team afloat during the Lovett saga and given us a chance most likely. But also if Lovett didn't get his period he would have also helped. I hate playing the what if game all it does is hurt.

Yeah, time for the "what ifs" to stop & start winning

Mussini and even though I very much disliked his game, Ellison would have kept this team afloat during the Lovett saga and given us a chance most likely. But also if Lovett didn't get his period he would have also helped. I hate playing the what if game all it does is hurt.

Ellison is the one that is most hurting from all this.  He decided to jump ship and joined that Pitt debacle. 

You seem to hate the complainng, which I understand in some way. But what should be posted.

It's not the complaining per se. It's the dreary boring complaining. Imagine that this was a forum about potatoes and every day I sat on the toilet shitting making a dozen posts about how bad the potatoes taste and how much I don't like potatoes. No potato jokes, nothing about rice or quinoa, just constant complaints about potatoes and how much I don't like the way potatoes taste and the way they're prepared. You'd want to hang yourself. Well, not you, but a person of average intelligence. It's dreary and horrible and especially because nobody likes the potatoes. If there were people here saying oh god these are the most delicious potatoes I ever ate and Chris Mullin is the most amazing potato chef god ever created that'd be one thing. But everyone agrees the potatoes are rancid. No one thinks the potatoes taste good. You're the only one who thinks your opinion about how bad the potatoes taste is interesting a dozen times a day.

T.O. is a good kid.Im hearing there is a lack of trust somewhere within,also lack of team discipline,or leadershp from Staff.Again this s rumors coming from teammates/friends.Heard the kid just wanted to explore,yet certain media were informed from Staff, that he he did not ask for release.This is what pissed dad off we are told.I love this kid attitude,wish he stay,yet the rumors surrounding the decision doesnt sound  positive.Thoughts?

wish he would stay too, hopefully he realizes a high major program isn't going to give him any more minutes than st. john's.  Can't keep transferring because you don't like what's happening.  It comes to a point where you have to look within and maybe that's the problem.

Quote from: HowCouldUBeSoHarkless on March 19, 2018, 07:00:58 PM

Mussini and even though I very much disliked his game, Ellison would have kept this team afloat during the Lovett saga and given us a chance most likely. But also if Lovett didn't get his period he would have also helped. I hate playing the what if game all it does is hurt.

Ellison is the one that is most hurting from all this.  He decided to jump ship and joined that Pitt debacle. 

This is not happening here with Owens but a lot of the time especially here at SJU kids transfer because they think they're either losing their minutes or didn't get enough minutes. Very hard to keep young people happy.

Quote from: Factsonly on March 19, 2018, 02:12:41 AM

T.O. is a good kid.Im hearing there is a lack of trust somewhere within,also lack of team discipline,or leadershp from Staff.Again this s rumors coming from teammates/friends.Heard the kid just wanted to explore,yet certain media were informed from Staff, that he he did not ask for release.This is what pissed dad off we are told.I love this kid attitude,wish he stay,yet the rumors surrounding the decision doesnt sound  positive.Thoughts?

wish he would stay too, hopefully he realizes a high major program isn't going to give him any more minutes than st. john's.  Can't keep transferring because you don't like what's happening. 
It comes to a point where you have to look within and maybe that's the problem.

A high major program that wants a stretch 4 for one season will. He’s not going to North Carolina, but don’t you think the bottom half of conference’s like the ACC would take him?