Zach vs. Zags

There's always going to be some highly rated kids available and many of the top kids monitor these teams during the course of the college season to see how they're doing (see J'raan Brooks last year for reference, which worked against us).  So I'm much less worried about kids still being available than I am the results on the court. Win this year and some highly rated kids will seriously consider us. Let's be real, none of these kids to date have been serious about coming here. Winning cures a lot of ills.

This is my concern. Many believe that winning or lack there of, is the reason behind our recruiting woes. I believe it’s the staffs recruiting methods that is the problem. Time will tell.

Zach is already trying to set Chris up for failure putting this year all on him, which is ridiculous.  Of course, winning and winning a lot is the obvious answer.  It might take awhile for the team to blend.   Zach will have zero patience.

Why is it ridiculous? Mullin has the best team we have had in years. This season is 100% on Mullin and there is nothing wrong with having expectations in year 4 and holding the coach accountable if we don’t meet them.

Zach is already trying to set Chris up for failure putting this year all on him, which is ridiculous.  Of course, winning and winning a lot is the obvious answer.  It might take awhile for the team to blend.   Zach will have zero patience.

Team has plenty of time to gel thanks to our awful OOC schedule.  Duke should be the only loss before Big East play.

Zach is right- Mullin needs to win now and win big- semis in big east tourney, tourney invite and finish top 3 seed in conference.

Enough with the excuses for Mullin- win big this year or go back to NBA

Quote from: colelatshaw2010 on October 16, 2018, 10:13:57 PM

Quote from: Johnny23 on October 16, 2018, 07:08:13 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on October 16, 2018, 06:34:00 PM

Quote from: Gray Chudney on October 16, 2018, 02:38:19 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on October 16, 2018, 02:34:35 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on October 16, 2018, 12:43:20 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on October 16, 2018, 12:35:55 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on October 16, 2018, 10:42:08 AM

Quote from: Poison on October 13, 2018, 10:20:16 AM

Quote from: hnk on October 13, 2018, 10:16:03 AM

Coverage.   Things he highlights.   Picking on players, staff, fans etc.   He did it to Hollywood when they wouldn't leak to him or give him access to Phillie (which was a wise decision) etc. and did it somewhat to Coach Mullin last year.  Like it was his fault his point guard quit and blindsided his plan.  Hope I'm wrong and Congrats to team on getting their stud eligible and to Zags on breaking the news.

Last season is entirely on Mullin. Anyone that can’t see that doesn’t understand what a coach’s responsibilities are. If Zach “picks” on us, the program will have earned it.

This attitude that it’s always someone else’s fault is a St.John’s tradition. The only one they’ve upheld all these years.

Last season totally on Mullin..?   Just not a completely fair statement....

Having a limited rotation is def on the coaching staff but when your #2 scorer quits on the team, that is not on the Coach. That is on the gutless kid that left his teammates holding their D----...

What about getting nothing out of 4 star highly ranked yakwe? The mullintards said he should transfer to a lower level, Where he could play.

Funny he didn’t have trouble finding a new school. Anyone think last years team could have used a PF? At least we got see Amir and walkons play.

When he doesnt play at uconn will you take it as a sight towards hurley?

Hurley wouldn’t have brought him in if he didn’t want him. Forgot who else was interested. But it was a few decent schools.
Not saying he is a great player. But he was  our 7th best last year. The staff should have gotten something out of him.
Amir played way to much. Does coach mullin not get blame for that? How come 0 recruits ? Or did you forget ?

Still waiting for your record prediction amid all of your complaints.

The team has plenty of talent. Enough to to certainly win the big east. You guys compare it to the 99 team. That team could have won the national championship. Mike Jarvis’s team beats this team by 40. They played tough. Besides duke, does this team play tough regularly?
I think 4th place in conference. We get a high seed in tournament. Maybe we win a game.
You guys don’t understand me. I would be thrilled with that. If mullin could do that consistently I would love him as much as all of you. If a bad season was NIT and a good one every few years was this. That would be fine.

Last 3 years were not Lavin years. They were awful. Next year no ponds, no Herron, no Clarke and probably no someone else. Does Simon come back? What are chances Trimble graduates?

Next year Back to Wednesday night 8/9 game in the big east that I absolutely predict.

Unless (and this is a huge caveat) they actually win 20+ games this year and make the tourney. If they do this, I think Mullin finally lands one or two of those big 4/5 star recruits to offset the roster losses that you mentioned. If not, I think his act will be dried up.

It was probably unrealistic for us to hope to land any of these top notch recruits before Mullin shows he can coach a winning team. Problem becomes is who of the big 4/5 star recruits youre referencing will still be available by the time this team has (probably) made the tournament. Many pundits expected igiehon to commit to Louisville any day after cancelling his sju visit. Precious is a heavy uconn lean. Many have said Kofi ain't coming. What's left?  Lester Quinones?

There's always going to be some highly rated kids available and many of the top kids monitor these teams during the course of the college season to see how they're doing (see J'raan Brooks last year for reference, which worked against us).  So I'm much less worried about kids still being available than I am the results on the court. Win this year and some highly rated kids will seriously consider us. Let's be real, none of these kids to date have been serious about coming here. Winning cures a lot of ills.

I completely understand what you're saying my point though is that it doesn't appear that any of the kids that we've devoted our recruiting efforts to thus far are still in play.  It'll be very difficult, even after a successful season, to put together an entire class of highly rated talent that we hadn't had contact with before the season started. 

Quote from: hnk on October 17, 2018, 09:44:36 AM

Zach is already trying to set Chris up for failure putting this year all on him, which is ridiculous.  Of course, winning and winning a lot is the obvious answer.  It might take awhile for the team to blend.   Zach will have zero patience.

You really don’t think Zach wants us to be successful?

If he has fallen out of favor with the current regime, it wouldn't surprise me.  For the first few years he was fed inside info from someone on staff (many say Matt A).  He started getting more critical of staff and now Zags is the one given the Heron news.  He was very vocal critic against the last regime who gave him no information at all.  He doesn't care about the programs success. He only cares about his level of access and his ability to keep his spot as the premier SJU beat reporter.

Quote from: hnk on October 17, 2018, 09:44:36 AM

Zach is already trying to set Chris up for failure putting this year all on him, which is ridiculous.  Of course, winning and winning a lot is the obvious answer.  It might take awhile for the team to blend.   Zach will have zero patience.

Team has plenty of time to gel thanks to our awful OOC schedule.  Duke should be the only loss before Big East play.

Only if Feb 2 comes before the BE schedule which is the day we play Duke.

Quote from: colelatshaw2010 on October 17, 2018, 11:01:56 AM

Quote from: hnk on October 17, 2018, 09:44:36 AM

Zach is already trying to set Chris up for failure putting this year all on him, which is ridiculous.  Of course, winning and winning a lot is the obvious answer.  It might take awhile for the team to blend.   Zach will have zero patience.

Team has plenty of time to gel thanks to our awful OOC schedule.  Duke should be the only loss before Big East play.

Only if Feb 2 comes before the BE schedule which is the day we play Duke.

Thanks for pointing out that key error.  Moral of the story is Duke should be only OOC loss.

Quote from: TONYD3 on October 16, 2018, 07:02:28 PM

Still on train. If I am so crazy. Why do we lose? Ed Cooley had a bare cupboard. So did wojo, Lavin, seton hall coach, Ewing. Butler had a new coach last year. They didn’t have many players coming back . They had a good season.

Ed Cooley inherited a Junior Vincent Council and Soph Bryce Cotton. He made the tournament in his 3rd year as an 11 seed.

Woj inherited a Senior starting PG a Soph Luke Fischer. He made the tournament in his 3rd year as a 10 seed and missed it in his 4th.

Lavin inherited a roster full of seniors in his first year. It took him 4 years to get back to the NCAA tournament where he got a 9 seed and bounced in round 1.

Willard inherited a Senior Jeremy Hazell, Junior Herb Pope and Junior PG Jordan Theodore. It took him 6 years to make the NCAA Tournament.

Ewing inherited an All-Conference caliber player in Govan and another very good player in Derrickson. he loaded up his non conference schedule with nothing but cupcakes and still finished .500 in year 1.

Jordan inherited All-Conference Kelan Martin, Senior Tyler Wideman, and Sophomore Kamar Baldwin.

Mullin inherited Christian Jones and Amar Alibegovich.

Every single one of those other coach's essentially had a 1 year head start on Mullin in regards to where their program was when they took over. Others, like Jordan, inherited a very good team.

Now do you see why people think you're stupid?

Cooley- improved considerably in year 2. Providence has never had a bad season since.
Lavin- in year 3 went to NIT. Then won 20 games 3 times in a row. 1 bad. Season with cupboard bare. Still not last place. Still beat some good big east teams.

Willard- had decent players (criminals). Where is herb pope playing nowadays. Williiar also in old big east. Much harder.


Wojo- was not left with much. Year 2 they were decent. And have been decent since he has been there.

NIT is not the same as last place. You can call me names doesn’t change the facts. None of those teams have ever tied or finished below DePaul. If ponds went pro this year, and that almost happened. Where do we finish ? Doubt we get Herron.

Shot:

Many believe that winning or lack there of, is the reason behind our recruiting woes.

Chaser:

Mullin has the best team we have had in years.

Shot:

Quote from: SJUFAN on October 17, 2018, 10:51:12 AM

Many believe that winning or lack there of, is the reason behind our recruiting woes.

Chaser:

Quote from: SJUFAN on October 17, 2018, 10:51:12 AM

Mullin has the best team we have had in years.

Hahahaha

Anyone who knocks recruiting is simply not paying attention. We have five guys that were top 100 recruits in high school and three of them were top 35. We also have two conference rookie of the years via transfer.

Anyone who knocks recruiting is simply not paying attention. We have five guys that were top 100 recruits in high school and three of them were top 35. We also have two conference rookie of the years via transfer.

Mullin was on Rothstein's podcast this week and made the point that reliance on transfers and Juco's has been going on at SJU back to LC and that all things considered a player with a year of experience and a year of practice is more valuable than a true freshman. I also think that coming from the NBA where free agency is of enormous importance has an influence on his thinking. You can say that he hasn't been recruiting along the traditional paradigm but I don't see how you can say he hasn't been recruiting well.

Kevin Willard did nothing for 5 years.  He agreed to turn a blind eye to let Tiny and Antigua cheat, and has had success since year 6 (3 straight tourneys, 1 win, and most of Northern NJ where I live could still care less -- our wins for Duke and Nova last year got more attention).

He also inherited a team with 4 players - Hazell, Jeff Robinson, Pope and Theodore - all of whom were seniors/juniors and any of which would have been the best player on Mully's first team.  When you start with that foundation you have a leg up, period.  I hate belaboring this point, but that is reality.  Do I wish the recruiting of HS kids was better at this point?  Absolutely.  Am I happy with the talent we have based on the transfer/JUCO market -- hell yes, though I wish we had a bit more size on the front line. 


Willard- had decent players (criminals). Where is herb pope playing nowadays. Williiar also in old big east. Much harder.

Quote from: Marillac on October 17, 2018, 02:03:42 PM

Anyone who knocks recruiting is simply not paying attention. We have five guys that were top 100 recruits in high school and three of them were top 35. We also have two conference rookie of the years via transfer.

Mullin was on Rothstein's podcast this week and made the point that reliance on transfers and Juco's has been going on at SJU back to LC and that all things considered a player with a year of experience and a year of practice is more valuable than a true freshman. I also think that coming from the NBA where free agency is of enormous importance has an influence on his thinking. You can say that he hasn't been recruiting along the traditional paradigm but I don't see how you can say he hasn't been recruiting well.

I'd argue St. John's can ONLY succeed by mastering the transfer game.

Quote from: Foad on October 17, 2018, 12:02:07 PM

Shot:

Quote from: SJUFAN on October 17, 2018, 10:51:12 AM

Many believe that winning or lack there of, is the reason behind our recruiting woes.

Chaser:

Quote from: SJUFAN on October 17, 2018, 10:51:12 AM

Mullin has the best team we have had in years.

Hahahaha

Anyone who knocks recruiting is simply not paying attention. We have five guys that were top 100 recruits in high school and three of them were top 35. We also have two conference rookie of the years via transfer.

Yes they have fielded a talented team for this year and if they continue to strike gold it wouldn’t matter how they land the players. They clearly are not relying on the transfer game though as they would not have spent time on the high schoolers in the 2019 class. A combination of both would be ideal. Your not a little concerned by the apparent inability to sign any of their 2019 targets to date? And what that could mean should that trend continue?

Quote from: Foad on October 17, 2018, 02:50:40 PM

Quote from: Marillac on October 17, 2018, 02:03:42 PM

Anyone who knocks recruiting is simply not paying attention. We have five guys that were top 100 recruits in high school and three of them were top 35. We also have two conference rookie of the years via transfer.

Mullin was on Rothstein's podcast this week and made the point that reliance on transfers and Juco's has been going on at SJU back to LC and that all things considered a player with a year of experience and a year of practice is more valuable than a true freshman. I also think that coming from the NBA where free agency is of enormous importance has an influence on his thinking. You can say that he hasn't been recruiting along the traditional paradigm but I don't see how you can say he hasn't been recruiting well.

I'd argue St. John's can ONLY succeed by mastering the transfer game.

I would not argue that exactly. In this age St John's is not a destination for most NYC players, that ship has left the station. But NYC is a destination for euros, and for out of town kids who want the bright lights, and for NYC kids who want to come home.

Your not a little concerned by the apparent inability to sign any of their 2019 targets to date? And what that could mean should that trend continue?

I am not in the least bit concerned about where HS kids chose to go to college - although I'd love it if SJ were a destination for 5* recruits. But I don't see that it ever will be. Because between the shit locale and the educational opportunities available elsewhere, and the elite money and pussy and whatever other perks that are otherwise available, I'm surprised that any local stays local. If and when no one comes here, then I'll be concerned. But as long as good players come, I don't care where they come from. I think that the days where SJ relies on local kids - which exemplifies the mom and pop mentality that so many decry - are over. Thinking that Jamaica is a destination school for 5* recruits - as opposed to Kansas and Kentucky and Louisville and here - is crazy. Thinking that this is a landing spot for elite players who've had less than the success that they've hoped for elsewhere and are looking to raise their profile playing for a HOF coach in the greatest media market in the world, that's something else entirely.

Kevin Willard did nothing for 5 years.  He agreed to turn a blind eye to let Tiny and Antigua cheat, and has had success since year 6 (3 straight tourneys, 1 win, and most of Northern NJ where I live could still care less -- our wins for Duke and Nova last year got more attention).

I remember tweeting Zach during the season last year when he was shocked no one cared about his big Seton Hall article or something for the NEW YORK Post. I had to explain to him that no one around here cares because 2 or 3 kids from NY play on the team. He kinda admitted I was right it was nice.

Quote from: Johnny23 on October 17, 2018, 09:09:59 AM

Quote from: colelatshaw2010 on October 16, 2018, 10:13:57 PM

Quote from: Johnny23 on October 16, 2018, 07:08:13 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on October 16, 2018, 06:34:00 PM

Quote from: Gray Chudney on October 16, 2018, 02:38:19 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on October 16, 2018, 02:34:35 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on October 16, 2018, 12:43:20 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on October 16, 2018, 12:35:55 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on October 16, 2018, 10:42:08 AM

Quote from: Poison on October 13, 2018, 10:20:16 AM

Quote from: hnk on October 13, 2018, 10:16:03 AM

Coverage.   Things he highlights.   Picking on players, staff, fans etc.   He did it to Hollywood when they wouldn't leak to him or give him access to Phillie (which was a wise decision) etc. and did it somewhat to Coach Mullin last year.  Like it was his fault his point guard quit and blindsided his plan.  Hope I'm wrong and Congrats to team on getting their stud eligible and to Zags on breaking the news.

Last season is entirely on Mullin. Anyone that can’t see that doesn’t understand what a coach’s responsibilities are. If Zach “picks” on us, the program will have earned it.

This attitude that it’s always someone else’s fault is a St.John’s tradition. The only one they’ve upheld all these years.

Last season totally on Mullin..?   Just not a completely fair statement....

Having a limited rotation is def on the coaching staff but when your #2 scorer quits on the team, that is not on the Coach. That is on the gutless kid that left his teammates holding their D----...

What about getting nothing out of 4 star highly ranked yakwe? The mullintards said he should transfer to a lower level, Where he could play.

Funny he didn’t have trouble finding a new school. Anyone think last years team could have used a PF? At least we got see Amir and walkons play.

When he doesnt play at uconn will you take it as a sight towards hurley?

Hurley wouldn’t have brought him in if he didn’t want him. Forgot who else was interested. But it was a few decent schools.
Not saying he is a great player. But he was  our 7th best last year. The staff should have gotten something out of him.
Amir played way to much. Does coach mullin not get blame for that? How come 0 recruits ? Or did you forget ?

Still waiting for your record prediction amid all of your complaints.

The team has plenty of talent. Enough to to certainly win the big east. You guys compare it to the 99 team. That team could have won the national championship. Mike Jarvis’s team beats this team by 40. They played tough. Besides duke, does this team play tough regularly?
I think 4th place in conference. We get a high seed in tournament. Maybe we win a game.
You guys don’t understand me. I would be thrilled with that. If mullin could do that consistently I would love him as much as all of you. If a bad season was NIT and a good one every few years was this. That would be fine.

Last 3 years were not Lavin years. They were awful. Next year no ponds, no Herron, no Clarke and probably no someone else. Does Simon come back? What are chances Trimble graduates?

Next year Back to Wednesday night 8/9 game in the big east that I absolutely predict.

Unless (and this is a huge caveat) they actually win 20+ games this year and make the tourney. If they do this, I think Mullin finally lands one or two of those big 4/5 star recruits to offset the roster losses that you mentioned. If not, I think his act will be dried up.

It was probably unrealistic for us to hope to land any of these top notch recruits before Mullin shows he can coach a winning team. Problem becomes is who of the big 4/5 star recruits youre referencing will still be available by the time this team has (probably) made the tournament. Many pundits expected igiehon to commit to Louisville any day after cancelling his sju visit. Precious is a heavy uconn lean. Many have said Kofi ain't coming. What's left?  Lester Quinones?

There's always going to be some highly rated kids available and many of the top kids monitor these teams during the course of the college season to see how they're doing (see J'raan Brooks last year for reference, which worked against us).  So I'm much less worried about kids still being available than I am the results on the court. Win this year and some highly rated kids will seriously consider us. Let's be real, none of these kids to date have been serious about coming here. Winning cures a lot of ills.

I completely understand what you're saying my point though is that it doesn't appear that any of the kids that we've devoted our recruiting efforts to thus far are still in play.  It'll be very difficult, even after a successful season, to put together an entire class of highly rated talent that we hadn't had contact with before the season started. 

I think getting those 4 and 5 star recruits is going to happen when and if some of these guys make it to the NBA. If kids know that Mullin can get them there, they'll come to us. We'll never get more than 2 or 3 of those guys, but so what. The days of the 4 year players is long gone...these kids want to know that they have a shot at the NBA.

IF the team wins this year and Ponds and Heron get drafted I feel like recruiting 4- or 5-stars out of HS/Prep will get better.  Plus, it doesn't hurt when one of the best shooters in the NBA credits Coach Mullin with helping his shooting stroke...especially right after he breaks the NBA record for most 3s in a game.