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Big East Tournament Expansion....good or bad?

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JohnnyJungle

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Big East Tournament Expansion....good or bad?
« on: August 11, 2008, 08:43:03 PM »
Rivals has an article up ono their main page talking about the Big East Tournament expansion.

http://collegebasketball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=835601

The Big East Tournament will be celebrating its 29th year this season, and this one promises to be different than all the rest.
That's because the Big East chose to have all 16 of its teams automatically qualify for the league tournament this season. Since the league expanded to 16 in 2005, only the top 12 have earned spots at Madison Square Garden in New York City - where the event has been held for the past 25 years. 

The new rule creates some big changes in the format. The top four seeds will now receive a two-round bye, moving directly into the quarterfinals. Teams seeded Nos. 5-8 receive a one-round bye and begin play in the second round. Teams seeded Nos. 9-16 will each play in the first round and have the unenviable task of having to win five games in five days to win the tournament title and capture the automatic bid to the NCAA Tournament that comes with it. 

Rivals.com college basketball editor Bob McClellan and staff writer Andrew Skwara have opposing views about the change in format. Here is what each said:

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Really none of the guys added to much worthy commentary after this. It was two guys one was for and the other was against it.

The only noteworthy comment was this....

DePaul, St. John's and Rutgers have each missed the Big East Tournament twice. Anybody miss 'em?

Maybe the Big East doesn't realize what it has done, but in the long run, it actually may be costing itself NCAA bids. It's giving its lousy teams one game to get ready for its teams that are seeded 5-8. Think some lower-seeded teams will win their fair share of second-round games? Think some of those Nos. 5-8 seeds are NCAA bubble teams that can't afford a one-and-done in the conference tournament?

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peter

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Re: Big East Tournament Expansion....good or bad?
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2008, 10:27:08 PM »
And I think that if you can't beat a bottom feeder, maybe you should give up your NCAA spot to a more deserving (possibly mid-major) team that knows how to play if they're not as physically talented.  I hate seeing mediocre major conference teams go in there as a 11, 12 seed and stink up the place. 
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pmg911

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Re: Big East Tournament Expansion....good or bad?
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2008, 08:57:26 AM »
I don't think everyone should qualify....
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jumpinjohnny

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Re: Big East Tournament Expansion....good or bad?
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2008, 12:32:22 PM »
I'm torn...on the one hand every team should have an opportunity to win their conference tourney...on the other hand that is a lot of games to fit into a week. 

Can't imagine a 9-16 seed running the table...but if they are including all the teams this is probably the best format.  Reward the regular season with byes.
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peter

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Re: Big East Tournament Expansion....good or bad?
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2008, 01:03:59 PM »
I think it's unwieldy having 16 teams, and I don't think every team should qualify; but if last year's Syracuse team, for example, couldn't beat the #16 team and then turn around and beat #9 (in conference) Villanova, they shouldn't go to the tournament anyway. 

This format does reward the top teams (some of whom seem to mail in their BE tourney efforts, knowing they have a top-3 seed in the NCAAs), and might help keep the, uh, riff raff out of muddying up the NCAA seeding process.  Last year, #7 Pitt won the conference tourney (http://www.bigeast.org/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=92555&SPID=11228&DB_OEM_ID=19400&ATCLID=1394567); down south, Georgia ran through their conference tourney and probably knocked some more deserving and interesting teams out of the NCAA Tournament - I forget who right now.
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JohnnyJungle

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Re: Big East Tournament Expansion....good or bad?
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2008, 01:26:41 PM »
You could look at it two ways.....

The bubble teams if they win the first round over the 16 seed team and win the next game then thats 2 more wins then if the tournament was shorter and they would just have 1 win. Its a bit of stat padding. 21 wins looks better than 20 wins.

On the other side if they lose well then this really hurts their chances.

I'm more with the Bobby Knight train of thought that conference tournaments take a lot out of teams and they are pretty overrated if you are an elite team in your conference. To a bottom feeding team this is their tournament so they have more to play for.

It will make for better basketball and perhaps close the gap a bit between the 10-16 teams. I think the Big East is hoping every Big East team can field a competitive team every year.


Also if a bottom team winds up somehow winning this tournament the Big East may get more bids than ever before.
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peter

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Re: Big East Tournament Expansion....good or bad?
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2008, 01:47:03 PM »
Something I'll be personally watching in the next year is whether the Big East is actually getting stronger and/ or more even overall.  Consider that the conference has a weak bottom - St. John's, Cincy, Rutgers, South Florida, and Providence all had losing records.  The Big 12 had 2 teams under .500 (and one @ .500, Mizzou).  The Pac 10 had 1 team under .500.  The ACC had 2 teams.  The SEC had 3 teams (obviously not including Georgia and their run).  Even the Atlantic 10 had only 4 teams under .500. 

EDIT: I forgot the Big Ten.  Living in Big Ten country, I try to.  They also had 5 teams under .500.  And if you make a quick spreadsheet and mark the percentages of teams that are under .500, they have the most. 
« Last Edit: August 12, 2008, 01:52:17 PM by peter »
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JohnnyJungle

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Re: Big East Tournament Expansion....good or bad?
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2008, 02:52:18 PM »
Well these conferences also have less teams in conference, correct? The Big East spends a majority of its season now beating up on each other.
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Marco Baldi

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Re: Big East Tournament Expansion....good or bad?
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2008, 02:56:30 PM »
I cant see how any St Johns fan would not agree with the expansion.
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JohnnyJungle

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Re: Big East Tournament Expansion....good or bad?
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2008, 03:05:16 PM »
Quote from: Marco Baldi on August 12, 2008, 02:56:30 PM
I cant see how any St Johns fan would not agree with the expansion.

Well sure in the short term in the bad times this is a positive for St. John's because they have an automatic in. I think you can argue many positive and negative effects of everyone getting in for many different aspects($).

I think Bill Cosby said it, "You can't please everyone"
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pmg911

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Re: Big East Tournament Expansion....good or bad?
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2008, 03:41:42 PM »
Quote from: Marco Baldi on August 12, 2008, 02:56:30 PM
I cant see how any St Johns fan would not agree with the expansion.

Making the conference tournament was, at a minimum, a good gauge of any level of success for the season...   there will be plenty of conference games that will not carry the sense of urgency they have had in the past now..
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Marco Baldi

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Re: Big East Tournament Expansion....good or bad?
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2008, 04:00:36 PM »
Im sure all the die hard SJU fans, the season ticket holders type who attend pretty much every game, will be happy to watch their team play in the tourney this year
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peter

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Re: Big East Tournament Expansion....good or bad?
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2008, 04:21:18 PM »
There are some easy in-conference games and the teams know it; in my mind, if I were building a conference I would want parity, because that makes any game in any venue exciting.  I think, though, that if I actually was thinking of this from a pure business sense instead of from a fan sense, I would want to have titans and weaker teams - easier to feature "marquee" teams if they have great records (a la Duke and UNC in the ACC). 

Is that first tournament game going to make the league money?  Don't they sell the packages as sets?  How does that work with the byes?  I've only gone to the tournament games off of other people's tickets, so I don't know.
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newsman13

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Re: Big East Tournament Expansion....good or bad?
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2008, 02:35:26 PM »
there are those who espouse having ALL 300 plus division teams in the NCAA tournament. 

realistically, team 360 could never beat team number one...359 number two, etc.

if you believe every team should  have a "second season", the way to do it is to have every team play in a conference tournament.

the big east tournament gives bottom dwellers like us a chance for redemption...

that's why i like it.
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jumpinjohnny

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Re: Big East Tournament Expansion....good or bad?
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2008, 02:56:35 PM »
Quote from: pmg911 on August 12, 2008, 03:41:42 PM
Quote from: Marco Baldi on August 12, 2008, 02:56:30 PM
I cant see how any St Johns fan would not agree with the expansion.

Making the conference tournament was, at a minimum, a good gauge of any level of success for the season...   there will be plenty of conference games that will not carry the sense of urgency they have had in the past now..
agreed that the bottom 6 teams won't have the sense of urgency but it adds to the battle for the teams fighting for a top 4 or 8 seed.

I think every team should be given the opportunity to dance.
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SportsFan

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Re: Big East Tournament Expansion....good or bad?
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2008, 07:18:25 PM »
Quote from: jumpinjohnny on August 12, 2008, 12:32:22 PM

Can't imagine a 9-16 seed running the table...but if they are including all the teams this is probably the best format.  Reward the regular season with byes.

of course you couldnt imagine it, since Georgia, just this year, tied for the worst record in the SEC and ran the table in that tournament to reach the NCAAs, but why would you be paying attention to basketball in March? ::)

Great logic used by one of the great basketball minds on junglejohnny! ::)
« Last Edit: August 13, 2008, 07:22:56 PM by SportsFan »
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Notfadeaway

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Re: Big East Tournament Expansion....good or bad?
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2008, 07:36:16 PM »
Quote from: SportsFan on August 13, 2008, 07:18:25 PM
of course you couldnt imagine it, since Georgia, just this year, tied for the worst record in the SEC and ran the table in that tournament to reach the NCAAs

Where they prompty got WAXED by Xavier. Even though they earned it, they really didnt belong there, and it showed really fast.
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SportsFan

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Re: Big East Tournament Expansion....good or bad?
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2008, 07:40:53 PM »
Quote from: Notfadeaway on August 13, 2008, 07:36:16 PM
Quote from: SportsFan on August 13, 2008, 07:18:25 PM
of course you couldnt imagine it, since Georgia, just this year, tied for the worst record in the SEC and ran the table in that tournament to reach the NCAAs

Where they prompty got WAXED by Xavier. Even though they earned it, they really didnt belong there, and it showed really fast.

Another nitwit attempting to step toe to toe with the King.

I will break this down for you as simple as I can.

The NCAA rule states that if a team wins its Conference Tournament (ie: Georgia this year) then they EARN an automatic bid to the NCAA Tournament.  Georgia couldve lost every game leading up to the tournament, but if they captured that elusive Conference title, then they're in like flyn!  So for you to say that they "didn't belong there" is not right at all.  I can name a lot of teams that won their conference tournaments and got "waxed" in their first-round NCAA Tourney game, I suppose, using your "logic" that they didn't belong in the NCAA's too.

Job well done with your post.

And no need to reply to this.  I will just make you look stupider than I already have.
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Notfadeaway

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Re: Big East Tournament Expansion....good or bad?
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2008, 08:26:43 PM »
Quote from: SportsFan on August 13, 2008, 07:40:53 PM
Job well done with your post

Thanks. I appreciate that you recognize.

Sorry, but your little diatribe doesnt change the fact that UGA had no business being in the NCAA last year. I dont have the interest to look it up, but there had to be at least one team left out because a bottom feeding team from an average at best conf. won their conf tourny ( that would be UGA ). Yeah that makes sense to me.  ::) 
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Randomhero423

Re: Big East Tournament Expansion....good or bad?
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2008, 08:33:25 PM »
they have business if they earn it.  and because of their post season run, they earned it.
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