Mullin to step down? Hurley in?

Besides the icon status, we made the dance for the first time in 4 years

There is however precedent for canning him. Fran made the NCAA tournament and was fired. Jarvis made the tournament, won the NIT the next year and was fired. Lavin made the tournament and was fired. Mullin made the tournament and now his head is allegedly on the block. (Predicition: LOL.) Only the great Norm Roberts who never sniffed the tournament got a longer leash than those losers. Even UCLA waits until they don't make the tournament to fire their head coaches. But not SJ's. Because at SJ we know how to build a winning program.

I never make it personal with coaches or players (certainly not players).  But I will call out coaches for doing a lousy job (only regarding their job), and I'll call out posters if need be. 

If I wanted to say "other boards are worse," then I have that right (whether, you think it's kindergarten or not).  And, there are tons of boards much harsher than any of our boards.  It doesn't make it right to make things personal with coaches or players, but it happens. 

I only merely pointed out Desco made it personal with Lavin, so in many ways (outside of calling Mullin a "loser") I understood where TonyD was coming from on his recent post. 

I dont know how I got brought into this, but I think some people have a different definition of what a personal attack is. And obviously, after awhile my posts about Lavin were mostly shtick.  Each day a different way of saying I wanted him gone.

I thought (and still do) that Lavin was a fraud.  The watching games from a suite, invoking everyone's personal tragedies as an excuse.  It was just too much for me.  In essence I had a problem with his character, so "personal attacks" are the natural line of critique when explaining it to others.

Feel free to police the boards, but I dont see many personal attacks against Mullin.  Most posts criticize his ability/inability to coach college kids. 

Let's not get  nostalgic for Lavin.  There was drama every day under that regime.  Weve mostly been bereft of that bs for the last few years.  That part has been a welcome change. 

No offense, Dave, but I've seen this one used many times in Mullin's first four years re: Jay Wright.  Wright knew he had to win (meaning go "dancing") in his fourth season, as his seat was getting hot.  He turned in a 24-8 (11-5 in the Big East) season and a Sweet 16 appearance.  They was a bucket away from beating eventual champion UNC.  It's a lazy comparison when you really look at things objectively.  Mullin wasn't even close to any NIT appearances during his first three seasons, and was on the brink of going this season.   


For one, Jay Wright had brought in a good class in his second year with Randy Foye, Allan Ray, Curtis Sumpter and Jason Fraser.  Then he added, Mike Nardi and Kyle Lowry in back-to-back classes.  We're not recruiting on that level, IMO.  Not to mention, Mullin doesn't bother to recruit or coach!  It's all about the smell test, and IMO Mullin doesn't pass it. 

If you believe no one is gonna come here under your mentioned circumstances, then just fold up shop and move to a lower conference.  Now, I'm in NO WAY advocating that's what should be done, but by mentioning our facilities and (tough) conference affiliation is the convenient excuse.  Basically, our administration has sucked when it comes to evaluating coaches.  It's really that simple.

This conference was set up perfectly, IMO, for St. John's to make an ascension but we can't get out of our own way.  What good nucleus you speak of?  I love for the fact Earlington and Roberts took a chance on St. John's, but I'm not yet sold on either one.  I think Williams is likely further along, so I expect him to potentially contribute more next season.  The only personnel I'm sold on is Figueroa and Heron (occasionally, Simon).  We won't know much about the newcomers and how they'll mesh (although, I was told Manual is somewhat raw) with the leftovers.  You still have to wonder who'll coach 'em?  Which leads me into this....

Simply bringing in an assistant coach isn't exactly gonna change our prospects, unless this new assistant can coach his ass off and recruit.  I believe our problems lie deeper than simply bringing in an assistant.  I doubt you'll be able to bring in a coach of that particular stature when he knows he could be axed after a season or two.  A coach of that stature will probably stay away from this job knowing Mullin is a lame duck. 

The only way I see this working out is if Mullin resigns or let go or we bring in three new assistant coaches who has an idea about coaching and recruiting.  That's it!  Otherwise, I'm sticking to my guns that this will not end well. 

If Lovett didn't completely bail that team would have been in the NCAA tournament last year. I hate playing the what if game but that really isn't a stretch.

If Lovett didn't completely bail that team would have been in the NCAA tournament last year. I hate playing the what if game but that really isn't a stretch.

Maybe, that was possible.  But I still think we would've fallen short of making the dance last season with LoVett.  There was no reason to be 4-14 without LoVett.   

I would not read too much into Cragg’s statement. If SJU wants to part with Mullin, but does not want to appear as if he was fired, you make a statement like this, and then Mullin resigns, after the vote of confidence from the school, so it looks like Coach goes out on his terms.  Just a theory, but one I have employed in business before.

I dont know how I got brought into this, but I think some people have a different definition of what a personal attack is. And obviously, after awhile my posts about Lavin were mostly shtick.  Each day a different way of saying I wanted him gone.

I thought (and still do) that Lavin was a fraud.  The watching games from a suite, invoking everyone's personal tragedies as an excuse.  It was just too much for me.  In essence I had a problem with his character, so "personal attacks" are the natural line of critique when explaining it to others.

Feel free to police the boards, but I dont see many personal attacks against Mullin.  Most posts criticize his ability/inability to coach college kids. 

Let's not get  nostalgic for Lavin.  There was drama every day under that regime.  Weve mostly been bereft of that bs for the last few years.  That part has been a welcome change. 

Thanks for kinda proving my point.  You constantly tossed personal barbs. 

Regardless, it's all history.  If you don't think there isn't any sort of drama with this current staff, then believe as you may.  I consider constant transfers and lethargy to be drama.  It may be in a different form, but it's still drama.  Shit still stinks whether it's dog feces or cow manure.  One just may stink more than the other, but it still stinks, nonetheless. 

To make matters worse, the product isn't even better than the last regime.  I hate to say this, but if there isn't much staff change, then be prepared to play again--for the 5th consecutive season--on Wednesday night. 

Wow...genuinely surprised that this is your take Dave.

Mullin being liked by kids doesn't really matter if he's proven he can't utilize their skill sets. Nor does it matter when he's blatantly not involved in huddles and game planning. You say he's knowledgable, I don't think anyone can or would dispute that, but his knowledge doesn't seem to be translating to his players and therefore not translating to success / wins.

Your second point - of Cragg hand picking a new team to recreate the culture is obviously what is needed. You say it would look bad for someone else to see Lavin and Mullin let go after tournament appearances. This tournament appearance this year doesn't even feel like we made it. Last team in, and then embarrassed in the game. Mullin flat out saying his team needs a break before selection sunday and not wanting to lobby for the program.

A change in leadership happened with Cragg. Now it's time for him to prove he's the man for the job and make this a winning program. It starts with a new coaching staff.

I don't think there is any head coach who wins simply on his own. Some future HOF have seen down seasons with staff turnover or stale staffs. It's why Pitino would push assistants out the door after 2 years.

I think a lot of the Mullin ineptitude talk is overblown. I think the shortcomings are again in the day to day stuff which does blow back on Mullin but is something that can be improved instantly.

To your first point of not being able to use skills sets... Shamorie was back to back 1st team all conference and is going to the NBA, Justin Simon was DPOY, and LJ Figueroa was best newcomer in gar conference (not an official award). If we want to fault him you also have to give credit. It's a two way street.

I would not read too much into Cragg’s statement. If SJU wants to part with Mullin, but does not want to appear as if he was fired, you make a statement like this, and then Mullin resigns, after the vote of confidence from the school, so it looks like Coach goes out on his terms.  Just a theory, but one I have employed in business before.

Not to mention that Cragg is at the final 4 with the rest of the "staff" minus Mitch, so if he wants to enjoy it and get some work done he doesn't need the distraction of the rampant rumors of his head coach. For all we know the attorney's from both sides are working on a buyout. Status quo is really an untenable situation.

Maybe, that was possible.  But I still think we would've fallen short of making the dance last season with LoVett.  There was no reason to be 4-14 without LoVett.   

It was really bad timing. Losing a key option player and ball handler in a position we were thin in really was crippling. Big East saw a weakness and attacked. I think they could have done better too but .500 ball was very plausible with him.

That would have led to the dance.

I think Cragg's statement is basically absolving the school of any cause behind Mullin potentially not being the coach next year and putting the ball in Mullin's court.

I don't think there is any head coach who wins simply on his own. Some future HOF have seen down seasons with staff turnover or stale staffs. It's why Pitino would push assistants out the door after 2 years.

I think a lot of the Mullin ineptitude talk is overblown. I think the shortcomings are again in the day to day stuff which does blow back on Mullin but is something that can be improved instantly.

To your first point of not being able to use skills sets... Shamorie was back to back 1st team all conference and is going to the NBA, Justin Simon was DPOY, and LJ Figueroa was best newcomer in gar conference (not an official award). If we want to fault him you also have to give credit. It's a two way street.

How can you say Figueroa was the "best newcomer" when there isn't any award for it?  Don't get me wrong, as I love LJ's game.  But maybe, Hoya fans feel either Akinjo or McClung was the "best newcomer(s)."  Or, DePaul fans may think it's Olujobi.  Or, Marquette fans think it's Joey Hauser. 

What assistant coach will want to join this staff given the current state of affairs?

Will Mullin hustle on the recruiting trail after being denied an extension?

Will we be able to bring in a competent point guard?

Will Mitch be sent to pasture and replaced with a real college assistant?

Will Heron, Simon and/or others leave?

If we win 15 games or fewer next year, what happens?

It’s possible to salvage this situation but it’s hard to see Mullin doing what it takes to make these things happen. If the university agreed to pay him a little more he’d be on the beach and happy right now.

It was really bad timing. Losing a key option player and ball handler in a position we were thin in really was crippling. Big East saw a weakness and attacked. I think they could have done better too but .500 ball was very plausible with him.

That would have led to the dance.

I still don't think it would've lead to us dancing.  I recall LoVett's last few games where he was barely distributing the ball.  He was too busy shot hunting (put up some poor numbers in his last couple games or so).  I'm not sure that would've been his way of going about business the rest of the season, but we'll never know. 

So, we'll agree to disagree. 

How can you say Figueroa was the "best newcomer" when there isn't any award for it?  Don't get me wrong, as I love LJ's game.  But maybe, Hoya fans feel either Akinjo or McClung was the "best newcomer(s)."  Or, DePaul fans may think it's Olujobi.  Or, Marquette fans think it's Joey Hauser. 

Considering LJ had most ppg and rpg out of that group and shot 51% from the floor I think I make a pretty good case. Also really like all the guys you listed too.

I still don't think it would've lead to us dancing.  I recall LoVett's last few games where he was barely distributing the ball.  He was too busy shot hunting (put up some poor numbers in his last couple games or so).  I'm not sure that would've been his way of going about business the rest of the season, but we'll never know. 

So, we'll agree to disagree. 

THIS agree LoVett was shot hunting. No way you can be sure we make tournament with him especially with the coaching, look how a better team fell apart vs better competition this year. Plus LoVett's history made him a question mark and he acted accordingly by quitting on team. Staff brought him in and relied on an historical unreliable player.

I still don't think it would've lead to us dancing.  I recall LoVett's last few games where he was barely distributing the ball.  He was too busy shot hunting (put up some poor numbers in his last couple games or so).  I'm not sure that would've been his way of going about business the rest of the season, but we'll never know. 

So, we'll agree to disagree. 

No one can be right. It simply didn't happen but the odds were in our favor. Do you think Lovett could have helped win 5 more games in conference?

No one can be right. It simply didn't happen but the odds were in our favor. Do you think Lovett could have helped win 5 more games in conference?

You have to prove it, in order for me to believe it.  Honestly, I'm not sure LoVett could've helped us win 5 more games in the conference.  I'm being serious.  Was it possible?  Yes.  Really, I'm not sure that would've been the case.  I still think we would've fallen short. 

Besides, there was a handful of posters upset because we went into the season shorthanded in the backcourt.  If some posters could see it, then why not the staff?  So, the staff should shoulder some blame after LoVett left 'em shorthanded.   

THIS agree LoVett was shot hunting. No way you can be sure we make tournament with him especially with the coaching, look how a better team fell apart vs better competition this year. Plus LoVett's history made him a question mark and he acted accordingly by quitting on team. Staff brought him in and relied on an historical unreliable player.

Exactly!

A disgrace..? you should go f yourself and never come to another game..

You are a terrible fan and if you ever saw Coach Mullin in person you would never have the balls to say that him.

Keep hiding behind the keyboard..

Don’t worry I won’t be the only one telling it to his face. That’s if people show up to any of his beatdowns.
Our only beat reporter said Wednesday that NO ONE has been recruiting since the end of the season. 4 days later, I assume no one is.
Maybe part time Mitch is trying.

10th, 8th, 10th (tied for 9th) and 7th.
Just lost best player, recruit, and only coach competent at his job. AND ITS ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE.

Who else is going to quit on this experiment? Your hero had chance to quit with some dignity. Not now. He deserves all the shame coming his way.

You have to prove it, in order for me to believe it.  Honestly, I'm not sure LoVett could've helped us win 5 more games in the conference.  I'm being serious.  Was it possible?  Yes.  Really, I'm not sure that would've been the case.  I still think we would've fallen short. 

Besides, there was a handful of posters upset because we went into the season shorthanded in the backcourt.  If some posters could see it, then why not the staff?  So, the staff should shoulder some blame after LoVett left 'em shorthanded.   

Exactly!

It’s not like you’re playing a video game and you just pick up a guard in free agency. Can’t just pluck a guard.

Should have done a better job at keeping Mussini happy and convinced Ellison to ride it out. Think this goes to my point again that staff is no dialed into the day to day with players.

But I think you can agree we would have won more games if a healthy Lovett was on the floor. No way you can say we’re at 0 difference.

Don’t worry I won’t be the only one telling it to his face. That’s if people show up to any of his beatdowns.
Our only beat reporter said Wednesday that NO ONE has been recruiting since the end of the season. 4 days later, I assume no one is.
Maybe part time Mitch is trying.

10th, 8th, 10th (tied for 9th) and 7th.
Just lost best player, recruit, and only coach competent at his job. AND ITS ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE.

Who else is going to quit on this experiment? Your hero had chance to quit with some dignity. Not now. He deserves all the shame coming his way.

Well considering no coach in the country is allowed to recruit right now might be a reason.