Shamorie at #56 in SI 100 Rankings

Shamorie was never held accountable here with anything.  He clearly had his own set of rules and I'm sure the insiders know even more about that and how bad it was.  Similar to Jordan before him (not to that level of course) and it really did Shamorie a disservice.  Now it's up to him to grow up and become an NBA player which he definitely has the talent to be or rot away in the G League or head to Europe.  The NBA isn't the same way it used to be about size.  His size is fine for the position he plays but he cannot be lazy and selfish.

This is is nonsense. Shamorie was held to the same standards as everyone else on thie team. He was easy to coach and well liked. Don't get where this narrative is coming from. You live with the mistakes and hope these kids grow from it. Defense was practiced and emphasized all the time. You can't yank a guy out when your backup guard is worse defensively.

Our sos heading into BE play was sub 220. What the committee saw was the most talented starting five in the BE finishing in 7th place. It’s clear they thought we were worthy of being the last team to make it in considering our decent record against tournament teams and Quad 1 victories although we played like crap down the stretch getting sweept by the worse teams in the BE and sure enough we took that losing momentum into the playin game and lost.

Your happy with the invite, as am i, but it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be disappointed with the season in its totality. We underachieved, plain and simple.

season was f. Ed by poor conditioning and that’s on the staff

I don’t know anything besides that is an insult to compare Ponds to Rysheed freaking Jordan. I’m sure there are things Ponds could have done better, but he was one of the best guards in the league for 3 years and one of the best we’ve had in any lifetime. I wanted more out of him last year too but had we recruited an able front court I think that would have happened. The kid played his tail off and came to us from NY when most highly touted city kids leave. He accomplished more in any one year than Jordan did in his career at SJU.

Sheed was hands down better prospect than Ponds and from a TALENT perspective one of the most talented to play here ever. Sheeds problem was his head and his hood. We saw what happened. If Sheed had his head on right he is no doubt at least mid first round talent.

Compare Sheed vs the top teams and Shamorie vs them. Sheed often saved his best games for our NBA style matchups and he had the measureables and talent. Shamorie was a good college player, but he lacked the extra to take that next step (and the size). I watched closely this year on if he had it and he just did not. I would take a no-baggage Sheed over Shamorie any day and would not think twice about it.

Compare Sheed vs the top teams and Shamorie vs them.

Which top teams are you referring to exactly, because Jordan scored 20 points six times in his career, whereas Ponds averaged 20 points over three full years. Those must have been six impressive performances.

Ponds was as top posting guy noted one of the better players in the history of the school. Whereas no baggage Jordan with his head on right is a figment of your fevered imagination and the other Jordan, the one currently bent over in the prison shower, is a contender for the all-bust team.

Are we talking about Shamorie Ponds who scored 1,870 in 3 seasons (the fifth highest scorer) and would have gone on to set the highest all time total if he played season 4? The same Shamorie Ponds who set the all time freshmen and sophmore highest scoring records. The same Shamorie Ponds who is all time 6th in assists? Yeah he sucked ...

Which top teams are you referring to exactly, because Jordan scored 20 points six times in his career, whereas Ponds averaged 20 points over three full years. Those must have been six impressive performances.

Ponds was as top posting guy noted one of the better players in the history of the school. Whereas no baggage Jordan with his head on right is a figment of your fevered imagination and the other Jordan, the one currently bent over in the prison shower, is a contender for the all-bust team.

First, off pts don't tell the whole story its also game flow and other factors/stats like passing etc that you can pick up on at the game, but here are some anyway. He also did not play 3 years here, only 2 because of his issues as we all know. Generally speaking he was a much better NBA prospect than Shamorie if he had fixed his issues and was not so ego driven. Shamorie was a good college player and no doubt had several big games for us against some good teams, but if we are talking NBA talent its just not the same.

*Note I excluded from this list the Xavier and Butler type teams where there were good games. While good college teams, they do not come close enough based on our scheduling to teams filled with future NBA level players/experience to give us the gauge. Our top teams those seasons that we faced were Duke, Nova and Syracuse. Did not have the greatest schedule, but in those games I came away very impressed with Sheed and knew he had the seeds to grow into at least a mid first rounder.

Ponds had some strong games against Nova during his time here and that one Duke home game last year, but that team had nowhere near the talent as the one this year and Shamorie was quiet. The Duke team Sheed faced was also much better than the one that Shamorie faced in terms of NBA talent.

Sheed's Stats
Sophomore
21 pts, 3 Rebounds, 8 Assists @ #4 Nova (2014-2015)
18 pts, 4 Rebounds, 3 Assists, #5 Duke (2014-2015)

Freshman
13 pts, 6 Rebounds, 3 Assists, #2 Syracuse (2013-2014)
12 pts, 5 Rebounds, 2 Assists, #8 Nova (2013-2014)
13 pts, 6 Rebounds, 2 Assists, #9 Nova (2013-2014)

Are we talking about Shamorie Ponds who scored 1,870 in 3 seasons (the fifth highest scorer) and would have gone on to set the highest all time total if he played season 4? The same Shamorie Ponds who set the all time freshmen and sophmore highest scoring records. The same Shamorie Ponds who is all time 6th in assists? Yeah he sucked ...

Great college player and I did not say he sucked. I said he was not an NBA caliber player. D'angelo, great college player, 3rd leading scorer in school history but was not cut out for the NBA. And its not a bad thing, its just that not everyone is. Pts do not tell the whole story. If Sheed had the mental side right he was an NBA player. The whole propping up of Shamorie and such shock that he was not drafted was misplaced. I could have told you after the Duke game, being drafted was not in the cards this year. He could have changed that with no fade at end perhaps and leading us on a run, but that never happened, the team folded. That is why he needed one more year, to try and correct that.

First, off pts don't tell the whole story its also game flow and other factors/stats like passing etc that you can pick up on at the game, but here are some anyway. He also did not play 3 years here, only 2 because of his issues as we all know. Generally speaking he was a much better NBA prospect than Shamorie if he had fixed his issues and was not so ego driven. Shamorie was a good college player and no doubt had several big games for us against some good teams, but if we are talking NBA talent its just not the same.

*Note I excluded from this list the Xavier and Butler type teams where there were good games. While good college teams, they do not come close enough based on our scheduling to teams filled with future NBA level players/experience to give us the gauge. Our top teams those seasons that we faced were Duke, Nova and Syracuse. Did not have the greatest schedule, but in those games I came away very impressed with Sheed and knew he had the seeds to grow into at least a mid first rounder.

Ponds had some strong games against Nova during his time here and that one Duke home game last year, but that team had nowhere near the talent as the one this year and Shamorie was quiet. The Duke team Sheed faced was also much better than the one that Shamorie faced in terms of NBA talent.

Sheed's Stats
Sophomore
21 pts, 3 Rebounds, 8 Assists @ #4 Nova (2014-2015)
18 pts, 4 Rebounds, 3 Assists, #5 Duke (2014-2015)

Freshman
13 pts, 6 Rebounds, 3 Assists, #2 Syracuse (2013-2014)
12 pts, 5 Rebounds, 2 Assists, #8 Nova (2013-2014)
13 pts, 6 Rebounds, 2 Assists, #9 Nova (2013-2014)

Wait, those are the sats you chose to site to prove rysheed was BETTER in big games? The 15.4 average over 5 games? The ponds slander was terrible when he was here but it will only get worse now that he is gone.

This argument is ridiculous. There was zero hype for rysheed as an NBA prospect. He didn’t caught up in legal trouble until his St. John’s playing career was over.

This is is nonsense. Shamorie was held to the same standards as everyone else on thie team. He was easy to coach and well liked. Don't get where this narrative is coming from. You live with the mistakes and hope these kids grow from it. Defense was practiced and emphasized all the time. You can't yank a guy out when your backup guard is worse defensively.

There was no emphasis on defense. The lack of structure on offense lead to poor shot selection and contributed to Ponds lower shooting percentage imo

First, off pts don't tell the whole story its also game flow and other factors/stats like passing etc that you can pick up on at the game, but here are some anyway. He also did not play 3 years here, only 2 because of his issues as we all know. Generally speaking he was a much better NBA prospect than Shamorie if he had fixed his issues and was not so ego driven. Shamorie was a good college player and no doubt had several big games for us against some good teams, but if we are talking NBA talent its just not the same.

As long as we're constructing hypothetical players like not a soon be convicted felon Jordan, who's a better NBA prospect, Jordan or Ponds if he was 6'4 200 lbs.



<hose>

The Duke team Sheed faced was also much better than the one that Shamorie faced in terms of NBA talent.

The #4 dook team Ponds beat had 6 top 25 recruits and three NBA first round picks: Marv Bagley, Wendell Carter, Grayson Allen, Gary Trent, Marq Bolden and Trent Duvall. The dook team lavin lost to was much better than that? How much better exactly.

Sheed's Stats
Sophomore
21 pts, 3 Rebounds, 8 Assists @ #4 Nova (2014-2015)
18 pts, 4 Rebounds, 3 Assists, #5 Duke (2014-2015)

Freshman
13 pts, 6 Rebounds, 3 Assists, #2 Syracuse (2013-2014)
12 pts, 5 Rebounds, 2 Assists, #8 Nova (2013-2014)
13 pts, 6 Rebounds, 2 Assists, #9 Nova (2013-2014)

Ponds: 21 points, 7 assists, 6 rebounds vs Syracuse as a freshman; 33 points, 3 assists, 7 rebounds vs #5 duke; 26 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists vs #1 nova.

Cherry picking is fun

Wait, those are the sats you chose to site to prove rysheed was BETTER in big games? The 15.4 average over 5 games? The ponds slander was terrible when he was here but it will only get worse now that he is gone.

This argument is ridiculous. There was zero hype for rysheed as an NBA prospect. He didn’t caught up in legal trouble until his St. John’s playing career was over.

Clearly you did not stop by the practices where the NBA Scouts were taking notes on him. He was always hyped as one and its not just legal trouble I am saying. Its the trouble of being immature mentally like he was and not having the work ethic. The talent was there, no question. Prior to legal trouble, he did not lock in mentally here as he needed to punch his ticket. If he had the Phil Greene work ethic and mindset no doubt he is there. Phil was one of the most hard working players on that team.

And I think I made clear to judge it all on points is not representative. I only threw them in for Foad because he brought that up. There is also game flow and other factors to consider- the pts will always come but Sheed had the talent to be a difference maker that many do not have. It was wasted.

As long as we're constructing hypothetical players like not a soon be convicted felon Jordan, who's a better NBA prospect, Jordan or Ponds if he was 6'4 200 lbs.



<hose>

The #4 dook team Ponds beat had 6 top 25 recruits and three NBA first round picks: Marv Bagley, Wendell Carter, Grayson Allen, Gary Trent, Marq Bolden and Trent Duvall. The dook team lavin lost to was much better than that? How much better exactly.




Ponds: 21 points, 7 assists, 6 rebounds vs Syracuse as a freshman; 33 points, 3 assists, 7 rebounds vs #5 duke; 26 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists vs #1 nova.

Cherry picking is fun

Sheed faced- Tyus Jones (1st Round- #24), Justice Winslow (1st Round- #10), Jahlil Okafor (1st Round- #3), Grayson Allen (1st Round- #21), Quinn Cook (Undrafted-Warriors now)

Ponds faced- Marv Bagley (1st Round- #2) , Wendell Carter ( 1st Round- Pick #7), Trevon Duvall (Undrafted), Gary Trent Jr. (2nd Round- Pick #37 G-League), Marques Bolden (Undrafted- Cavs now), Grayson Allen (1st Round- #21)

-Sheed faced 4 first round picks and Warriors Contributor.
-Your Ponds List- 3 first round picks (Grayson shared) and a second rounder

Did you have a stop watch? Or was it just bias guiding your determination. This is almost as ridiculous as whoever it was saying TO put on 30 lbs of muscle.

Did you watch the tournament? Tariq looked great. Their was a noticeable difference between the guy who played on a last place big east team from the guy who was one of the better players on a team the almost won the national championship. Are you crazy?

If our non-conference schedule was an unmitigated disaster as was well documented in this forum and we had a 7th place conference finish - how were we one of only 4 conference teams to make the Ncaa tournament?

I have no idea what your argument is. Honestly I have not taken the time to understand exactly how the committee ranks strength of schedule. Our’s seems to be over valued.
The legends classic games were home games. The games weren’t on campus. But 90 percent of the 3000 people were St. John’s fans. Cal was terrible and they could have won. VCU wasn’t great and maybe they should have won.
Georgia tech is a bad team from the ACC. But again it was a Neutral site.
The Duke game was beyond embarrassing. Everything else were cupcakes.
In the big east tournament we played the last place team who beat us twice before. Then we got humiliated for the 3rd year in a row.
In my opinion we shouldn’t have made the play in game. I was happy we did. We were non competitive in that game.

Why are you so proud of that season?

Why are you so proud of that season?

For me the close loss at Nova, and the signature, unbelievable come from behind win against Nova at MSG. Then the two beatings of Marquette, and the fact that we went from 4-14 to 8-10, and make the tournament was enough for me to be proud of last season ... Enough said

Sheed faced- Tyus Jones (1st Round- #24), Justice Winslow (1st Round- #10), Jahlil Okafor (1st Round- #3), Grayson Allen (1st Round- #21), Quinn Cook (Undrafted-Warriors now)

Ponds faced- Marv Bagley (1st Round- #2) , Wendell Carter ( 1st Round- Pick #7), Trevon Duvall (Undrafted), Gary Trent Jr. (2nd Round- Pick #37 G-League), Marques Bolden (Undrafted- Cavs now), Grayson Allen (1st Round- #21)

-Sheed faced 4 first round picks and Warriors Contributor.
-Your Ponds List- 3 first round picks (Grayson shared) and a second rounder

So a #5 ranked team with four first round picks (two of whom, Winslow and Alleen played a combined 13 minutes

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/2015-01-25-st-johns-ny.html)

is "much better" than a #4 ranked team with three first round picks (two of them lottery picks) and therefore losing to the former while scoring 18 points is better than beating the latter while scoring 33 points because "game flow and other factors." As I said, you're delusional.

Yes, I'm referring to his being on the cusp of a professional opportunity that will afford him the opportunity to make millions of dollars playing a children's game that he improved at quite a bit playing at St John's under coach Mullin, which improvement you didn't notice because of if I understand your earlier comment is the fault of genetics, the blame for which is either on your parents or your education, the latter being understandable because you went to St John's. For the former you're blameless, no one picks their family and based on the available evidence no one would pick yours. Because you're something short of a dunce.

Where exactly did shamorie show improvement from year 1 to year 3?

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/shamorie-ponds-1.html

I would love to see your old ass call me a dunce or critique my family's intelligence to my face

Where exactly did shamorie show improvement from year 1 to year 3?

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/shamorie-ponds-1.html

I would love to see your old ass call me a dunce or critique my family's intelligence to my face

Not to interfere. But old ass argued many times that Deangelo Harrison didn’t get any better under Coach Lavin.

Where exactly did shamorie show improvement from year 1 to year 3?

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/shamorie-ponds-1.html

FG%; 2 pt%; FT%; assists; points and steals. Also by the eye test he was obviously a better player a junior than as a freshman.

I would love to see your old ass call me a dunce or critique my family's intelligence to my face

Senator Hawkins: I might be interested to see what toys your kids ever had

FZ: Why would you be interested?

Senator Hawkins: Just as a point of interest

FZ: Well, come on over to the house and I'll show them to you.

Not to interfere. But old ass argued many times that Deangelo Harrison didn’t get any better under Coach Lavin.

I doubt I ever said that slingblade, mmm mmm, much less many times, mmm mmm, because I had the utmost respect for DH, mmm mmm, but by the numbers it's true mmm mmm: Harrison averaged 17 points and as a freshman and a senior; 2 assists as a freshman and two assists as a senior; 80 percent FT % as a freshman and a senior; 36 percent from 3 as a freshman and as a senior. He averaged a rebound and a half more a game as a senior versus a freshman, his FG percentage went up .04 percent and he turned the ball over a bit less. What I argued many times was that Lavin's disciplining of Harrison was completely self serving and a reflection of his mental illness. Note I said mental illness, mmm mmm, not the sort of cognitive disability from which you suffer, mmm mmm.