Shamorie at #56 in SI 100 Rankings

So a #5 ranked team with four first round picks (two of whom, Winslow and Alleen played a combined 13 minutes

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/2015-01-25-st-johns-ny.html)

is "much better" than a #4 ranked team with three first round picks (two of them lottery picks) and therefore losing to the former while scoring 18 points is better than beating the latter while scoring 33 points because "game flow and other factors." As I said, you're delusional.

Can't just base things on points and also ranks when its different teams both years. The one gauge, however, that is consistent season by season is assessing a player on if the game translates to the NBA- points are but a factor. If you watch both those games and then also their games at other parts of the season you will notice a pattern.

Shamorie played well, very well against a number of teams, but there were several moments when I just could tell he was not an NBA player. His height did not stack up to stronger competition/players that were NBA samples on a consistent basis. There were big conference games when he just looked very selfish and failed to deliver, the game was too big for him and that cannot happen if you want to be drafted. There were moments when he had turnovers at very costly times and games when he just did not have the basketball IQ to overcome a good coaching staff taking him out of the game.

I expected more this year and was let down. He started to make a case last year as you pointed out, but based on these other things he showed his true colors this year. He needed one more year to correct the record.

Bottomline- I think at Duke this season the true Shamorie showed his colors. He is not an NBA talent, maybe a G league talent but not NBA. I am sorry to say this, but I cannot blame the teams for passing on him.

I doubt I ever said that slingblade, mmm mmm, much less many times, mmm mmm, because I had the utmost respect for DH, mmm mmm, but by the numbers it's true mmm mmm: Harrison averaged 17 points and as a freshman and a senior; 2 assists as a freshman and two assists as a senior; 80 percent FT % as a freshman and a senior; 36 percent from 3 as a freshman and as a senior. He averaged a rebound and a half more a game as a senior versus a freshman, his FG percentage went up .04 percent and he turned the ball over a bit less. What I argued many times was that Lavin's disciplining of Harrison was completely self serving and a reflection of his mental illness. Note I said mental illness, mmm mmm, not the sort of cognitive disability from which you suffer, mmm mmm.

Spent a minute searching found one easily. “Harrison came to St. John’s pretty good. He left really pretty good”
I know their are plenty more.
Train is in. I am done with the activity, for now.
But I also found a bunch of posts praising coach Mullins. “He is playing chess, while everyone is playing checkers” That made me laugh!

Spent a minute searching found one easily. “Harrison came to St. John’s pretty good. He left really pretty good”

Good job slingblade, you managed to disprove your own theory while simultaneously trainshitting. You're quite the multitasker, mmm mmm.

Can't just base things on points and also ranks when its different teams both years. The one gauge, however, that is consistent season by season is assessing a player on if the game translates to the NBA- points are but a factor. If you watch both those games and then also their games at other parts of the season you will notice a pattern.

Here's a pattern I notice: your entire frame of reference regarding St John's basketball is relative to the team you handed towels to: Jordan was the most talented ever and if only he worked as hard as Phil Greene was the hardest worker ever they might have beaten the teams they played which were the best teams anyone ever played.

The fact is that Ponds is one of the great players to have played at St John's - top ten in my long lifetime - and he has an NBA everything except an NBA body and he might be talented enough to overcome that. If he was four inches taller he'd have been be a lottery pick.

Exit question: if Ponds is not an NBA player, how come he just signed an NBA contract with an NBA team?

Here's a pattern I notice: your entire frame of reference regarding St John's basketball is relative to the team you handed towels to: Jordan was the most talented ever and if only he worked as hard as Phil Greene was the hardest worker ever they might have beaten the teams they played which were the best teams anyone ever played.

The fact is that Ponds is one of the great players to have played at St John's - top ten in my long lifetime - and he has an NBA everything except an NBA body and he might be talented enough to overcome that. If he was four inches taller he'd have been be a lottery pick.

Exit question: if Ponds is not an NBA player, how come he just signed an NBA contract with an NBA team?

Actually I did not hand towels to them, I was not employed by the program at any point or any capacity. I was a friend to the program that is all and had good connections.

You are delirious to suggest that he is one of the greatest ever here. Surprising cause I often tend to agree with you on historical issues. Signing an NBA contract does not make you an NBA "player" so to speak. Summer league is a hired hand/temp job/internship. Lets see him make the team other than G league. I hope he proves me wrong, but I just don't see it.

Here are 10 better than Ponds and there are several more- but these came easiest to mind (note the order is not perfect but its clear these 10 are better):
(1) Mullin
(2) Sealy
(3) Berry
(4) Marc Jackson
(5) Seiden
(6) Dove
(7) Artest
8 McGuire
(9) Harkless
(10) Hatten

Here are 10 better than Ponds and there are several more- but these came easiest to mind (note the order is not perfect but its clear these 10 are better):
(1) Mullin
(2) Sealy
(3) Berry
(4) Marc Jackson
(5) Seiden
(6) Dove
(7) Artest
8 McGuire
(9) Harkless
(10) Hatten

Mullin, Sealy, Berry absolutely. I'm old, but I did not see Dove, McGuire, or Seiden, so they're out. Harkless does not belong on that list by a long shot and Jackson is iffy: as college player I'd take Boo Harvey over him. George Johnson, Mel Davis and Glen Williams deserve mention.  Hatten absolutely> Ponds and is top five or six in my lifetime.

If Ponds is not top 10 he's certainly top 20. Jordan would be lucky to make the top 100. Would like to hear input from my boon companions and BB historians like Poison, newsman and the disappeared WASJU.

There was no emphasis on defense. The lack of structure on offense lead to poor shot selection and contributed to Ponds lower shooting percentage imo

They practiced defense all the time. All the time.

They practiced defense all the time. All the time.

Who practiced defense? It didn’t look like they practiced anything

Boy, an argument trying to prove the talent of a flame out is pretty weird. Talent arguments themselves are dumb, it’s mostly subjective, especially if stats, results and future projections can’t be counted.

The only point in bringing up pure talent is if you want to talk about how disappointing someone was, due to injury or being an idiot.

If the argument is instead about who the better basketball player is it is Ponds without question. No if ands or buts. Jordan did have that cool dunk that one time though.

They practiced defense all the time. All the time.

If such is true then GSJ is a terrible coach.

Our sos heading into BE play was sub 220. What the committee saw was the most talented starting five in the BE finishing in 7th place. It’s clear they thought we were worthy of being the last team to make it in considering our decent record against tournament teams and Quad 1 victories although we played like crap down the stretch getting sweept by the worse teams in the BE and sure enough we took that losing momentum into the playin game and lost.

Your happy with the invite, as am i, but it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be disappointed with the season in its totality. We underachieved, plain and simple.

That is a reasonable response from you. Well done!

I do feel that it's misguided at this point to label any St. John's season ending in an Ncaa appearance underachieving. Plus, even if one believes we underachieved this season, then they would have to admit that we did so by only the slimmest c*nt hair Newark butt fu**ing margin imaginable.

I have no idea what your argument is. Honestly I have not taken the time to understand exactly how the committee ranks strength of schedule. Our’s seems to be over valued.
The legends classic games were home games. The games weren’t on campus. But 90 percent of the 3000 people were St. John’s fans. Cal was terrible and they could have won. VCU wasn’t great and maybe they should have won.
Georgia tech is a bad team from the ACC. But again it was a Neutral site.
The Duke game was beyond embarrassing. Everything else were cupcakes.
In the big east tournament we played the last place team who beat us twice before. Then we got humiliated for the 3rd year in a row.
In my opinion we shouldn’t have made the play in game. I was happy we did. We were non competitive in that game.

Why are you so proud of that season?

I'm not sure "proud" is the right word and don't think I ever used it in reference to the season. I was happy that we qualified for the tournament. Typically we don't do that.  That we did it with all of our hero and favorite son at the helm enhanced the euphoria.

I'm proud that even though I polish off about a fifth of bourbon a night, I've only thrown up on the mayor once.

Boy, an argument trying to prove the talent of a flame out is pretty weird. Talent arguments themselves are dumb, it’s mostly subjective, especially if stats, results and future projections can’t be counted.

The only point in bringing up pure talent is if you want to talk about how disappointing someone was, due to injury or being an idiot.

If the argument is instead about who the better basketball player is it is Ponds without question. No if ands or buts. Jordan did have that cool dunk that one time though.

Well there had to be consensus to make Sheed a 5 star top 3 recruit for his position. Also there had to be some consensus as to his projection thus various NBA scouts coming to practice and or games. Sadly, he fit the "idiot" mold and flushed it.

And you may think its silly - but when you are at the game or even watching on TV you can assess with those other factors as well, stature, intensity, game flow who is the NBA talent on the court if they develop properly. My point being, Sheed had the seeds there and had more raw gifts than Shamorie. If he had the right mindset he was in the NBA. I guess you can argue Shamorie had the right mindset, but people on here have called him lazy etc so I guess that is debatable. But we can agree it was better than Sheed, but the other areas were not enough to get him over the top.

Still one on one, no baggage, no BS Sheed beats Shamorie. You would take Shamorie over him one on one? Just curious

Well there had to be consensus to make Sheed a 5 star top 3 recruit for his position. Also there had to be some consensus as to his projection thus various NBA scouts coming to practice and or games. Sadly, he fit the "idiot" mold and flushed it.

And you may think its silly - but when you are at the game or even watching on TV you can assess with those other factors as well, stature, intensity, game flow who is the NBA talent on the court if they develop properly. My point being, Sheed had the seeds there and had more raw gifts than Shamorie. If he had the right mindset he was in the NBA. I guess you can argue Shamorie had the right mindset, but people on here have called him lazy etc so I guess that is debatable. But we can agree it was better than Sheed, but the other areas were not enough to get him over the top.

Still one on one, no baggage, no BS Sheed beats Shamorie. You would take Shamorie over him one on one? Just curious

Jordan had an average feel for the game. His instincts were no better than any average high major point.

Ponds and Jordan are completely different players. This comparison is senseless.

Mullin, Sealy, Berry absolutely. I'm old, but I did not see Dove, McGuire, or Seiden, so they're out. Harkless does not belong on that list by a long shot and Jackson is iffy: as college player I'd take Boo Harvey over him. George Johnson, Mel Davis and Glen Williams deserve mention.  Hatten absolutely> Ponds and is top five or six in my lifetime.

If Ponds is not top 10 he's certainly top 20. Jordan would be lucky to make the top 100. Would like to hear input from my boon companions and BB historians like Poison, newsman and the disappeared WASJU.

It’s summer. These lists are fun, but we are all making them up without a clearly defined criteria. Comparing forwards to point guards is silly to me.

I think Shamorie Ponds is one of the best guards I've ever seen at St.John’s. I think the closest comparison is Marcus Hatten. Rysheed Jordan is nothing like Shamorie. (Well, let’s hope so) Comparing them is senseless, IMO.

If I’m ranking just the guards that I’ve seen I’d probably go with Barkley, Hatten, Jackson, Thornton, Ponds, Harvey, Hardy, Harrison, Lopez and Cook.

With my list, I’m considering each player’s overall body of work as in how many quality seasons they had here, combined with what their being here meant to the team.

There’s plenty wrong with my list, because I’m comparing players from different time periods and vastly different talent around them. Hatten had a weak supporting cast, but he was all over the court anyway, and led us to wins that we had no business winning. Ponds did that as well, but the difference between these two players was the shape they were in. Hatten was in great shape. Ponds wasn’t.

It’s summer. These lists are fun, but we are all making them up without a clearly defined criteria. Comparing forwards to point guards is silly to me.

I think Shamorie Ponds is one of the best guards I've ever seen at St.John’s. I think the closest comparison is Marcus Hatten. Rysheed Jordan is nothing like Shamorie. (Well, let’s hope so) Comparing them is senseless, IMO.

If I’m ranking just the guards that I’ve seen I’d probably go with Barkley, Hatten, Jackson, Thornton, Ponds, Harvey, Hardy, Harrison, Lopez and Cook.

With my list, I’m considering each player’s overall body of work as in how many quality seasons they had here, combined with what their being here meant to the team.

There’s plenty wrong with my list, because I’m comparing players from different time periods and vastly different talent around them. Hatten had a weak supporting cast, but he was all over the court anyway, and led us to wins that we had no business winning. Ponds did that as well, but the difference between these two players was the shape they were in. Hatten was in great shape. Ponds wasn’t.

If your talking modern- if I had one college game to win I want Jackson, Hatten, Hardy, Harrison, Greene and Sheed before I even consider Ponds. Thornton and Lopez before Ponds also. I also am considering all players at their best when I make this assessment for a smaller sample size- win one game.

Phil Greene over ponds is crazy talk

Do some of you actually watch the games? I swear.

Sheed's handle was suspect at best. I said on here years ago that he would never make it in the NBA in large part because of this especially if he had to play PG. He got his shit stolen too much in college, turnover prone and in the pros it would've been a big fail.

Ponds is smaller, less athletic, worse shape but he's just a straight baller.  Gimme Ponds over Jordan every day. If Ponds dedicates himself to his body then he can stay in the league. If not then it will be a short visit. 

Jordan is by far the better athlete and defender.
Ponds could eat healthy and work out 7 days a week. He would still be 180 pounds and 6’1.
Jordan was the better prospect. Ponds was the better player. I think they will both play the same minutes in the NBA.

If your talking modern- if I had one college game to win I want Jackson, Hatten, Hardy, Harrison, Greene and Sheed before I even consider Ponds. Thornton and Lopez before Ponds also. I also am considering all players at their best when I make this assessment for a smaller sample size- win one game.

Dude you’re out of your god damn mind. Phil Greene?