Shamorie at #56 in SI 100 Rankings

If your talking modern- if I had one college game to win I want Jackson, Hatten, Hardy, Harrison, Greene and Sheed before I even consider Ponds. Thornton and Lopez before Ponds also. I also am considering all players at their best when I make this assessment for a smaller sample size- win one game.

Your list is hard to understand. If the point is to win one game, how in the world is Phil Greene on it?

You’d take Phil Greene and D’Angelo Harrison over Erick Barkley? Please explain? In two years, Barkley and Bootsy won more post season games than every name on your list except for Jackson.

If I’m ranking just the guards that I’ve seen I’d probably go with Barkley, Hatten, Jackson, Thornton, Ponds, Harvey, Hardy, Harrison, Lopez and Cook.

With my list, I’m considering each player’s overall body of work as in how many quality seasons they had here, combined with what their being here meant to the team.

There’s plenty wrong with my list, because I’m comparing players from different time periods and vastly different talent around them. Hatten had a weak supporting cast, but he was all over the court anyway, and led us to wins that we had no business winning. Ponds did that as well, but the difference between these two players was the shape they were in. Hatten was in great shape. Ponds wasn’t.

Good list although I might quibble with the order. Interesting how few notable pure point guards there've beeen over the years. After those three guys ^^^ there's a second tier of David Cain, Mike Moses, Mel Utley and Frank Alagia but after that you're pretty quickly into the Tarik Turner Geno territory.

Dude you’re out of your god damn mind. Phil Greene?

Just be thankful he didn't include Jamal Branch.

Good list although I might quibble with the order. Interesting how few notable pure point guards there've beeen over the years. After those three guys ^^^ there's a second tier of David Cain, Mike Moses, Mel Utley and Frank Alagia but after that you're pretty quickly into the Tarik Turner Geno territory.

Cain was terrific for one season. He deserves all the credit for sticking it out and putting it all together his senior year. He is why we shouldn’t be jumping for joy when Bryan Trimble packs for Akron. Bad now doesn’t guarantee bad in 2-3 years.

If your talking modern- if I had one college game to win I want Jackson, Hatten, Hardy, Harrison, Greene and Sheed before I even consider Ponds. Thornton and Lopez before Ponds also. I also am considering all players at their best when I make this assessment for a smaller sample size- win one game.

When Ponds was at his best , he was great. His problem was inconsistency.

Dude you’re out of your god damn mind. Phil Greene?

*See Syracuse game - one of the clutchest players to wear a Johnnie uniform. I want one game, I know he does not fold. Others are higher on the list I mentioned but for one game I would take him over Ponds. A season is different.

Your list is hard to understand. If the point is to win one game, how in the world is Phil Greene on it?

You’d take Phil Greene and D’Angelo Harrison over Erick Barkley? Please explain? In two years, Barkley and Bootsy won more post season games than every name on your list except for Jackson.

I forgot about Barkley but I did note Thornton over Ponds. And its not necessarily the order of who is best its who immediately came to mind that I would rather have in one game rather than Ponds.

Cain was terrific for one season. He deserves all the credit for sticking it out and putting it all together his senior year. He is why we shouldn’t be jumping for joy when Bryan Trimble packs for Akron. Bad now doesn’t guarantee bad in 2-3 years.

In the main all transfers are bad and addition by subtraction is nonsense. You have a kid for two years as an underclassman and then when he gets in a place where he can contribute he contributes somewhere else.

*See Syracuse game - one of the clutchest players to wear a Johnnie uniform. I want one game, I know he does not fold. Others are higher on the list I mentioned but for one game I would take him over Ponds. A season is different.

** See the one good game he had in his career. Ignore his 39% lifetime FG percentage and his 32 percent 3pt %. One of the clutchest ever, make Boo Harvey look like Paul Berwanger. I'll never forget his 1-10 performance vs Robert Morris in the NIT coming on the heels of his 2 point performance against Providence in the BE tournament that same year. Those were about the most clutch 5 points ever scored in the history of SJ basketball.

In the main all transfers are bad and addition by subtraction is nonsense. You have a kid for two years as an underclassman and then when he gets in a place where he can contribute he contributes somewhere else.

Trimble might have been one of the worst players I have seen suit up in a SJU uniform, no exaggeration. He has no business being a D1 player let alone major conference player. I hate to be mean, but he was slow, robotic and occasionally made some shots. Waste of a scholarship. Could have had someone else.

** See the one good game he had in his career. Ignore his 39% lifetime FG percentage and his 32 percent 3pt %. One of the clutchest ever, make Boo Harvey look like Paul Berwanger. I'll never forget his 1-10 performance vs Robert Morris in the NIT coming on the heels of his 2 point performance against Providence in the BE tournament that same year. Those were about the most clutch 5 points ever scored in the history of SJ basketball.

He had several good games, but at his best a game like that was very very clutch and I will take that any day. Other games he was very clutch too- ice cold veins and got better from freshman to senior year.

Robert Morris- I knew before the game they were going to throw it and I told my friends same and they did not want to believe me. The boys wanted no part of it and should have turned down the NIT bid. It was a team problem that game. And frankly after such a letdown season, I would not want to play in it either. I would not throw it but I would not want to be there. A greater lesson learned is ending the season knowing you got nothing and having that in your head all off-season to work harder.

Marketing and money and rep would not allow an NIT turn down, but if we are really talking about building something for the next season and a lesson- end it with punishment and work harder for next season with a locker room high with ego like that one.

*I note in that situation I would turn down NIT if you had very high expectations and crashed with that type of locker room. Typically if you had little to so-so expectations and not too overblown and you make it, you participate. Good experience.

Trimble might have been one of the worst players I have seen suit up in a SJU uniform, no exaggeration. He has no business being a D1 player let alone major conference player. I hate to be mean, but he was slow, robotic and occasionally made some shots. Waste of a scholarship. Could have had someone else.

You're delusional.

He had several good games, but at his best a game like that was very very clutch and I will take that any day. Other games he was very clutch too- ice cold veins and got better from freshman to senior year.

You're delusional.

You're delusional.

haha looks like I got Foad on the ropes- he does not have the words to defend Trimble except call me delusional. 

You're delusional.

And your theory is supported how? I do not know how you cannot see Phil as one of the most clutch players in modern Johnny times.

haha looks like I got Foad on the ropes- he does not have the words to defend Trimble except call me delusional.

When talking to a nice person at a certain point "you're a nice person" becomes the only non nice personic response.

And your theory is supported how? I do not know how you cannot see Phil as one of the most clutch players in modern Johnny times.

You're delusional. Phil Greene sucked.

Foady contradicts himself often. He believes that you win with older 4 year players. But he hates Phil Greene, who became a very good player for us. (Lavin guy)
But he has a soft spot for Trimble, who has little to no skills. He is a shooter who can’t shoot. But he was a mullin recruit.
The old guy should stick to calling people stupid.

Foady contradicts himself often. He believes that you win with older 4 year players. But he hates Phil Greene, who became a very good player for us. (Lavin guy)
But he has a soft spot for Trimble, who has little to no skills. He is a shooter who can’t shoot. But he was a mullin recruit.
The old guy should stick to calling people stupid.

*This- 100 percent.

There comes a point where dislike of a coach should not project to dislike of all "his" players. It is possible to distinguish the two.

When talking to a nice person at a certain point "you're a nice person" becomes the only non nice personic response.

Actually you just contradicted yourself- by saying "nice person" and categorizing that statement as a non-nice personic response you are still basing it on your subjective view of what "nice person" means. You cannot escape its nature because you have used it as a foil. You are still bound in your own understanding of the word nice person.

See I can play the philosophy/legal game too big guy .

But back to basketball- you have not supported your argument on Trimble. Not a good player for us and I think the majority of people here would say the same.