Isaih Moore - Pearl River CC- 6’10 PF - ST. JOHN'S (Signed)

I agree on wishing Lavin was still here.

Disagree on the "miss" as it relates to KA - if you call being unwilling to pay his Father's asking price "missing" then you are right.

Sometimes a player starts out as a two star recruit, and because of hard work and a quality staff, he plays like a 4 star recruit - who doesn’t leave to play in the NBDL, or return home to some pathetic Italian pro league.

I agree as well that we can’t or shouldn’t have 6 developmental players on our bench.

What I question is how anyone knows what work these kids are putting in now and have put in since Mullin’s optional practice policy was put in place when he took over as coach.

I truly believe Mike Anderson is a good coach and think he will squeeze more juice out of some guys than past predecessors could have but that simply isn't enough to win in the Big East and at St. John's. You need better talent.

We can sprinkle in some diamonds in the rough here and there but the balance needs to shift and it seems that we are getting bodies in the door as quickly as we can which means we are going to war with them or pushing them out as quickly as we brought them in which will set us back once again.

Do you know how stupid you sound? What qualifies you to make an assessment of the players they brought in? This is an experienced staff. He’s been on a coaching staff that won a national championship. You don’t think he knows what level of talent he needs to be successful? All the players he signed for the 2020 class are players he believes he can win with, not to fill a roster spot and that’s good enough for me.
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Quote from: SJUFAN on October 01, 2019, 10:15:40 PM

Do you know how stupid you sound? What qualifies you to make an assessment of the players they brought in? This is an experienced staff. He’s been on a coaching staff that won a national championship. You don’t think he knows what level of talent he needs to be successful? All the players he signed for the 2020 class are players he believes he can win with, not to fill a roster spot and that’s good enough for me.

You are saying it is a tremendous job and they are building a dfensive team without ever seeing one of these kids. You don't have to be an NCAA coach to see kids play. Step out of your house. Head to an aau tourney. Head uptown.... Then say it's a tremendous job. It isn't.  Now you back pedal by giving me his credentials. Please stop drinking kool aid.

I truly believe Mike Anderson is a good coach and think he will squeeze more juice out of some guys than past predecessors could have but that simply isn't enough to win in the Big East and at St. John's. You need better talent.

We can sprinkle in some diamonds in the rough here and there but the balance needs to shift and it seems that we are getting bodies in the door as quickly as we can which means we are going to war with them or pushing them out as quickly as we brought them in which will set us back once again.

You are saying it is a tremendous job and they are building a dfensive team without ever seeing one of these kids. You don't have to be an NCAA coach to see kids play. Step out of your house. Head to an aau tourney. Head uptown.... Then say it's a tremendous job. It isn't.  Now you back pedal by giving me his credentials. Please stop drinking kool aid.

Ummmmm credentials matter! He’s won in the Big 12, he’s won in the SEC while using similar recruiting philosophy, it’s arrogance to think it wouldnt work in the Big East. I trust his ability to assess players ability more so than scouting services. How many 4 star players looked like trash in college? We’ve had a couple recently. You know what most of these services don’t measure? What’s between your ears, what’s pumping in your chest, work ethic, coach-ability. He has a proven track record of success and until proven otherwise I’m not going to criticize his lack of “higher rated recruits” when I haven’t seen them play a game for him yet.

I think Moore could be a better player under Anderson for us than Clark was for Mullin.

You draw this conclusion based off of what? How is this a comparison? They are two totally different players.

How about letting the guy coach and see what he can do before you declare he can't win with the talent he's getting.  CMA knows how to find kids that fit his system and he'll get the most of them, he's done it everywhere he's been.  All those stars and everything look nice when looking at it on paper, but you have to make it work and one thing CMA knows how to do is make his rosters work.

[…]

And I can go back as far as his Mizzou elite 8 team which will look pretty similar as well.  I'm going to take it, that if can do that in the Big 12 and SEC that are stacked with hall of fame coaches and known cheaters, he'll manage against the powerhouses of Creighton, DePaul, Providence, and Butler.

Dave, you sound a like a jealous ex-girlfriend. Anderson hasn't coached one game at SJU yet, and you're already saying he won't win here. How about giving him a chance?

As MakingPlays said he's had many successful seasons with similar talent in the SEC, and Big 12. He's 169 games over .500 in his coaching career. I think I trust him a bit more than Lavin, who still hasn't landed another coaching gig since getting canned, and clueless Mullin.

Would you find it easier to root for Anderson if he coached on his knees, put on 50 lbs, grew a goatee, and wore a Nebraska jumpsuit? 

But yet you reap praise all over his recruiting and accused people of being "clowns" because they were concerned with the level of players being brought in. How does that make sense?

When Steve Lavin was hired at SJU a UCLA fan called CRGreen started posting here. Like you re Arkansas he had an encyclopedic knowledge of UCLA basketball. (Unlike you he's now dead.) CR's take was that the entire UCLA fan base was wrong about Lavin being an incompetent buffoon who they were happy to see go and that in fact he was a master tactician and psychologist, and every time Lavin did something confounding like starting a different five guys every game or starting a walk on on a nationally televised Sunday afternoon game or taking a time out while his team was in the midst of a 12-0 run CR would explain the deep strategic thinking behind these seemingly boneheaded moves. It turned out that CR had no idea what he was talking about, because Lavin sucked and was mentally ill to boot.

Except for the fact that you're breathing you remind me of him. Your take is that the vocal majority of the Arkansas fan base - who complained about Anderson's recruiting and personnel management; about the shortcomings in his system; about his meager results (three tournaments in eight years at Arkansas is exactly how many tournaments the two guys SJU fired made over about the same time frame) - is wrong and you are right. And maybe you are and maybe Arkansas fans are delusional. We'll see soon enough whether the MAAC level talent Anderson is collecting are going to be able to compete in what's usually a pretty good league. My own take is that Anderson is recruiting about well as Norm Roberts so he better be a really good coach because the players Norm recruited mostly got their heads kicked in.


All of which is prelude to a question. A fellow called Arkansas Fight who covers AUBB for SBT said in an interview with the venerable Norman Rose this:

Q || What are the criticisms of Anderson’s teams?

The biggest criticism is that they can be out-schemed.

It’s pretty evident that his teams do very little to tailor a strategy to their opponent. They just go out and play ball. That puts a pretty hard cap on how many games they can win, especially at a school where expectations are high and every opponent takes them seriously.

[…]

Another criticism of all fast-paced teams is that they can play really ugly when forced into a half-court game. Anderson’s teams gradually got better at half-court offense, but St. John’s fans should be prepared for a lot of games that are downright ugly and slow for 2/3rds of the game, but just a few exciting fast breaks are enough to carry the day. The highlight reel will look great, but it will feel like a bad comedy movie that puts ALL of its jokes in the trailer.


As an expert on all things Anderson could you explain why that critique is inaccurate? Thanks in advance.

Your basing the ”level of player” off of recruiting services rankings and who else is recruiting them. Many of them don’t even see the kids they are rating or only at a couple of events. Me singing his praises is only taking the other side, I really don’t have an opinion until I actually see the product on the floor. Let the results speak for themselves.

We’ve been to one post season tournament in the previous 4 years. We can’t even make the f’n NIT consistently. I rather complete and win consistently with 2/3 star recruits than get our teeth kicked in with 4/3 star recruits. It’s because our 2 star recruits will be better players than the KY’s and Keita’s of the world. Lets support the staff and allow the results to warrant criticism.

Generally speaking if 351 division 1 college staff's and handful of scouts who have been evaluating talent for years share similar opinions on a player more times than not they aren't wrong. Yes there are players who defy odds but greater percentage you can tier players HM, MM, LM (High, mid, low). These coaches and scouts see these players more than once and while some are obviously more diligent than others there is pretty good sample size of data.

Personally I have access to synergy which is another tool that coaches use which gives me access, breakdown, and advanced stats on these players. So even if I wasn't able to see them in April and July I can go back and watch full games.

Additionally having an opinion or sharing a concern is not antagonizing or "not supporting" new staff. Lets be clear everyone here wants to see St. John's do well and roots for them. Everything doesn't have to be roses all the time with every move/decision. We're here to discuss and debate and share information and thoughts.

Ok but Anderson has implemented this recruiting approach with success and I’m defining success as never having a losing season. So generally speaking, no reason to believe it can’t be successful now.

My issue isn’t that you question the talent level being brought in, it’s the notion that he can’t win in the BE with the level of talent he’s bringing in. History shows us that he will win, regardless of the rankings of the recruits he bring in. Two separate issues.

Anderson was just fired 6 months ago because of recruiting — in an area he had decades of experience recruiting — so let’s not act like he’s above criticism.

Let’s give him the benefit of the doubt that: (1) these kids fit his system, (2) he has a good eye for talent, and (3) he is a very good coach.

There is still no way in hell these are ANYWHERE near the best kids he can land.

He basically had one NBA player or more while at Arkansas and this model still didn’t work.