Game 14: #12 Butler, NYE Queens 730P/FS1

We were playing a Butler team that is currently ranked #11 in the country, not the Butler team preseason picked 8th in conference. Their current ranking takes precedence over their preseason ranking when they hadn't played a game yet.

One could easily argue that it was a very encouraging effort against a team with the #4 NET nationally.

It was a shame we couldn't hang on in the end but I wouldn't consider last night a sign of bad things to come. To me it was nothing more or less than a great effort to come back that fell short.

Nice try.  As we all know, you included, there is no such thing as a 1st half beatdown and certainly you didn't write 1st half. There is only falling behind by a lot in the first half.  A beatdown refers to the outcome of a game.  And a team certainly gets a full game to make it not a beatdown.

You prematurely ejaculated and were made to eat your words about an hour later.  It's my favorite thing about reading the game threads. You see it all the time and I find it hilarious.  Try hot sauce.  It makes them taste better.

What we cant make analysis and change how we feel about a team until the outcome of the game? Bitch please...did i ever root for our team to lose? Dont need to reference 1st half to make my point. Whats wrong with premature ejactulation? As long as you can still go for round 2, who cares? 

I'm not saying I think that they are going to be great in conference or make the tourney but the fact is at this point in the season they control their own destiny.

If they finish top half of conference they are in.

You can wipe out this loss with a win at Butler. Its not probable but not impossible.

Every team in the country controls their own destiny at this point in the season.

We were playing a Butler team that is currently ranked #11 in the country, not the Butler team preseason picked 8th in conference. Their current ranking takes precedence over their preseason ranking when they hadn't played a game yet.

One could easily argue that it was a very encouraging effort against a team with the #4 NET nationally.

It was a shame we couldn't hang on in the end but I wouldn't consider last night a sign of bad things to come. To me it was nothing more or less than a great effort to come back that fell short.

Big East preseason predictions are based on conference play only. The season is 1 game old.

Every team in the country controls their own destiny at this point in the season.

Sure to a degree but the point is that St. John's won against arguably their best two ooc opponents. Those are great resume builders and our battle isn't as uphill as it was last season.

Big East preseason predictions are based on conference play only. The season is 1 game old.

If they redid those predictions last week right before conference play started where do you think Butler would have been predicted to finish?

Big East preseason predictions are based on conference play only. The season is 1 game old.

Entire body of work. Pre-conference play does matter especially when you have several quality wins on your resume.  I'm basing my opinion of Butler on their entire season, conference and non-conference play.

The fact that they were picked #8 in the BE preseason in October means little when evaluating them versus what they've actually done on the court to earn their #11 national ranking and #4 NET ranking.

We were playing a Butler team that is currently ranked #11 in the country, not the Butler team preseason picked 8th in conference.

This is why you can’t be taken seriously. You consistently post that  this is a rebuilding year (while simultaneously predicting a spot
on the bubble) because we were picked to finish 9th, but you absolutely refuse to apply that same logic to any other team in the league, including Butler who was picked to finish 8th just a few points ahead of us, Creighton picked for 7th or DePaul who was picked to finish behind us in last.

Butler is not the 11th best team in the country...not by a long shot. There is no chance they are ranked that high at the end of the season.

In-season rankings are not predictions. They are a reflection of what a team has achieved to date.

"Conference play just started" but those projections were made 3 months ago before anybody had even played a single game. If those projections had to be made again right now where do you think Butler is projected to finish? If you think it would be anything other than 1st or 2nd you'd be wrong. So yes, those projections from 3 months ago are completely and utterly irrelevant right now. Butler is a top 10 team in the country on every single metrics site which carries 10000x more weight than outdated human projections.

So you're trying to compare rankings with projections. They are two different things.

Butler was projected to finish 8th in conference. A conference that might get 7 teams in the NCAA Tournament. The Big East is a monster which is the point I'm trying to raise.

If we can't beat Butler at home then we are going to have a tough time beating anyone. Not to say we can't, we won't, but it's not promising sign.

This is why you can’t be taken seriously. You consistently post that  this is a rebuilding year (while simultaneously predicting a spot
on the bubble) because we were picked to finish 9th, but you absolutely refuse to apply that same logic to any other team in the league, including Butler who was picked to finish 8th just a few points ahead of us, Creighton picked for 7th or DePaul who was picked to finish behind us in last.

Butler is not the 11th best team in the country...not by a long shot. There is no chance they are ranked that high at the end of the season.

In-season rankings are not predictions. They are a reflection of what a team has achieved to date.

The fact that you won’t admit we didn’t have a a real head coach who had a plan is mind boggling. Transfer U didn’t work. Part time Mitch didn’t develop players. The entire program needs to be rebuilt. This year and next year are rebuilding years. They shouldn’t be. But that’s what the hero left us.
Yesterday we played a top 25 team. Our second best player was injured. Our best player did basically nothing.
Under the circumstances If we would have won it would have been one of the best wins in my life time. Anyone who disagrees is lying to themselves.
Plenty of fun basketball left.

Entire body of work. Pre-conference play does matter especially when you have several quality wins on your resume.  I'm basing my opinion of Butler on their entire season, conference and non-conference play.

The fact that they were picked #8 in the BE preseason in October means little when evaluating them versus what they've actually done on the court to earn their #11 national ranking and #4 NET ranking.

Ok again there are rankings and there are conference projections.

The Big East projections do NOT take any out of conference games into consideration. This is why there is overall standings and conference standings.

Being projected 8th in Big East does not translate as you are a bad team. The difference between 3rd and 7th last year was 1 game. We made the tourney finishing in 7th place.

The point is again if we can't beat Butler at home (we get a pass for no Mustapha) then we are going to have a tough time against everyone.

This is why you can’t be taken seriously. You consistently post that  this is a rebuilding year (while simultaneously predicting a spot
on the bubble) because we were picked to finish 9th, but you absolutely refuse to apply that same logic to any other team in the league, including Butler who was picked to finish 8th just a few points ahead of us, Creighton picked for 7th or DePaul who was picked to finish behind us in last.

Butler is not the 11th best team in the country...not by a long shot. There is no chance they are ranked that high at the end of the season.

In-season rankings are not predictions. They are a reflection of what a team has achieved to date.

They are ranked 11 today (and even higher in the important NET ranking) and that's all that matters at this point of the season. It would've been a huge resume win last night towards a tourney bid. It was a tough loss, not a bad loss. 9 conf wins is still the magic number for this team.

Ok again there are rankings and there are conference projections.

The Big East projections do NOT take any out of conference games into consideration. This is why there is overall standings and conference standings.

Being projected 8th in Big East does not translate as you are a bad team. The difference between 3rd and 7th last year was 1 game. We made the tourney finishing in 7th place.

The point is again if we can't beat Butler at home (we get a pass for no Mustapha) then we are going to have a tough time against everyone.

It sounds like you're putting more weight into Butler's projected finish in the Big East than looking at their body of work on the court to this point in the 2019-2020 season. I understand that their body of work was out of conference however the NCAA committee looks at every game, not just league opponents. Furthermore if you're going to evaluate a team, are you going to evaluate them off their preseason predicted finish or off their W-L record to date in the current season?
 
No objective pollster would rank Butler as the 8th best team in the BE if they made this prediction today.

Not sure how you're making the connection that losing to Butler last night will make it hard for the Johnnies to beat any team in the league.

I suppose you could say that if you mean that on any given night any team in the Big East can lose to any other team in the conference because it's as deep and there's as much competitive balance as ever. In that sense, sure.

A week ago you said you hadn’t seen zona or WVU play in a decade, but we can assume you know all 9 BE teams front and back?

I don’t know them well at all, but I am at least familiar with them unlike WV and Zona.  I don’t even know St. John’s under Anderson well yet to be honest.

If the coaches had to vote again tonight I would think we’d be last. We’be never seen a conference with no weak teams before.

They are ranked 11 today (and even higher in the important NET ranking) and that's all that matters at this point of the season. It would've been a huge resume win last night towards a tourney bid. It was a tough loss, not a bad loss. 9 conf wins is still the magic number for this team.

A ranking isn’t a prediction. It is a reflection of what the team has achieved to date. Nobody in the country would argue they are the 11th best team in college basketball.

A ranking isn’t a prediction. It is a reflection of what the team has achieved to date. Nobody in the country would argue they are the 11th best team in college basketball.

My point exactly. They've far exceeded that preseason prediction and will continue to do so.

So you're trying to compare rankings with projections. They are two different things.

Butler was projected to finish 8th in conference. A conference that might get 7 teams in the NCAA Tournament. The Big East is a monster which is the point I'm trying to raise.

If we can't beat Butler at home then we are going to have a tough time beating anyone. Not to say we can't, we won't, but it's not promising sign.

My point is that the fact they were picked to finish 8th in the league before the season started is completely irrelevant to whatever point you’re trying to make because if those predictions were made again last week they would have been predicted to finish 1st and 2nd.

Losing at home is always problematic but we were never going to go 9-0 at home. The fact that the loss was to Butler doesn’t mean we will or won’t struggle at home against other BE teams because Butler is at worst the 2nd best team in this conference right now.

Again, I still don’t see why you keep bringing up the fact they were predicted to finish 8th in what are now wildly outdated predictions. They are undoubtedly one of the two best teams in the conference right now.

A ranking isn’t a prediction. It is a reflection of what the team has achieved to date. Nobody in the country would argue they are the 11th best team in college basketball.

Right. Most would argue they’re better than 11th

Thank you. Exactly.

Np Dave.  I got your back...always.

What we cant make analysis and change how we feel about a team until the outcome of the game? 

Yes, certainly you can. I just find it comical and entertaining when people make statements early on in contests, or seasons for that matter, that later on turn out to be entirely wrong. Something I'll never be guilty of.