Fordham Rumors: St. John's Connections

You missed my point. As you stated last couple years recruiting fell off and little to no locals. Dave said he recruited all over so that locals would want to come. That didn't happen because if good local talent did come we wouldn't have fired him.

Moe Harkless? Chris Obekpa? God's Gift? Felix Balamou?

Went after Whitehead, Briscoe, Anderson and was in final 2-3 for each.

What players did Lav completely alienate that we should have gotten from NY? 

No, you’re right. He didn’t land the kind of locals we needed to build the program. Keith Thomas played at WCC. He just wasn’t a student there, unfortunately. Adonis De La Rosa was as big as a house, and nowhere near ready to play D1 ball despite not even being eligible to play. Orlando Sanchez turned out to be a risk not worth taking. These careless choices by Lavin cost him his job, but in fairness to him, he did bring in some local talent. Harkless, Balamou and Obekpa were locals. He really shat the bed after that in NY.

Who else in NY was there? If Lavin would have gotten an extension I think we would have been in more consideration for Cheick Diallo. There wasn't a ton of talent coming out of metro area.

Mo was the big one.  Obekpa was good, if troubled.  Gift was JUCO but sure him and other NYC Jucos were good targets.  Balamou was two staffs too early, otherwise he would have been better.

You know the kids better than we do, but a few that come to mind are Hassan Martin, Carrington (know way we should have let him go to the Hall with where we were at the time and where they were), Desi (though realize he was a diamond in the rough) even a kid like Nzei who took time to develop but ultimately became a solid contributor.  I'm sure there are others.

Lavin's issue wasn't recruiting though, at least for the majority of his time.  As I said in an earlier post I think he was a really good recruiter when motivated.

Moe Harkless? Chris Obekpa? God's Gift? Felix Balamou?

Went after Whitehead, Briscoe, Anderson and was in final 2-3 for each.

What players did Lav completely alienate that we should have gotten from NY? 

Mo was the big one.  Obekpa was good, if troubled.  Gift was JUCO but sure him and other NYC Jucos were good targets.  Balamou was two staffs too early, otherwise he would have been better.

You know the kids better than we do, but a few that come to mind are Hassan Martin, Carrington (know way we should have let him go to the Hall with where we were at the time and where they were), Desi (though realize he was a diamond in the rough) even a kid like Nzei who took time to develop but ultimately became a solid contributor.  I'm sure there are others.

Lavin's issue wasn't recruiting though, at least for the majority of his time.  As I said in an earlier post I think he was a really good recruiter when motivated.

Obekpa was great get. He was highly coveted and talented for his class year. Can't look at the end of the story to determine recruiting at that present time.

Carrington was overlooked. He wanted in and we declined.

Desi was ultimately following Tiny but was a surprising perk.

Again there wasn't much in the metro area during this run. We were involved with majority of kids we should have been and got most of them.

Lavin personal issues, fall out with Repole, and other administrative strain hurt recruiting. I think we could have bounced back though. B  Sampson, Doughty, and some others could have worked.

Moe Harkless? Chris Obekpa? God's Gift? Felix Balamou?

Went after Whitehead, Briscoe, Anderson and was in final 2-3 for each.

What players did Lav completely alienate that we should have gotten from NY? 

Those were early on, you said his strategy was go after everyone so locals would want to come. That did not happen his last few years. his last year was Sampson form Louisiana, Daugherty form Philly(?), and the G from Arizona so what don't you get? The guys you mentioned WE DIDN'T GET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In my post I said we didn't get any! Are you for real or on drugs?

Those were early on, you said his strategy was go after everyone so locals would want to come. That did not happen his last few years. his last year was Sampson form Louisiana, Daugherty form Philly(?), and the G from Arizona so what don't you get? The guys you mentioned WE DIDN'T GET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In my post I said we didn't get any! Are you for real or on drugs?

I don't understand the point you are trying to make. Was there a target that was better than Sampson in metro area that you wanted St. John's to go after?

I know everyone likes to beat the local drum but the landscape is vastly different than it was in 1980 or 1990 or 2000.

Those were early on, you said his strategy was go after everyone so locals would want to come. That did not happen his last few years. his last year was Sampson form Louisiana, Daugherty form Philly(?), and the G from Arizona so what don't you get? The guys you mentioned WE DIDN'T GET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In my post I said we didn't get any! Are you for real or on drugs?

Lavin’s strategy was not about local talent. His strategy was to get kids to recognize that playing in the media capital of the world was something to be proud of. It wasn’t about jealousy. Recruits wanted to leave the leave the shit town they grew up in, and take a chance at the big time. Not uncommon.

And for a couple of years, that strategy worked. Losing Dunlap, and not replacing him ruined it all.

I don’t blame Lavin for not landing Briscoe, or losing Anderson. Recruiting NYC is hard as hell. Chris Mullin is a living legend, and the locals could care less. Lavin sold Queens like it was Hollywood. No offense to the lot of you fine gents, but this isn’t a very Hollywood looking crowd.

OMG you guys are unbelievable. I was responding to assertion Dave made which I disagreed with based on RESULTS but you know what you guys win because I'm not going to waste anymore time banging my head against the wall arguing apples vs oranges. Holy cow!

Fordham is a sleeping giant of a program with the right coach and appropriate investment.

OMG you guys are unbelievable. I was responding to assertion Dave made which I disagreed with based on RESULTS but you know what you guys win because I'm not going to waste anymore time banging my head against the wall arguing apples vs oranges. Holy cow!

Sorry man still don't understand what your counter argument is. Give some specific examples

Fordham is a sleeping giant of a program with the right coach and appropriate investment.

Said no one ever. Fordham will never be anything more than a bottom feeder. Their most recent brief period of decency was late 80's/early 90's when my boy Jean Prioleau (Teaneck HS) starred there and they made a rare tourney appearance. Once Jean left they were back to their normal stature.

Said no one ever. Fordham will never be anything more than a bottom feeder. Their most recent brief period of decency was late 80's/early 90's when my boy Jean Prioleau (Teaneck HS) starred there and they made a rare tourney appearance. Once Jean left they were back to their normal stature.

That’s what fans of winning programs say about us.

I don't understand the point you are trying to make. Was there a target that was better than Sampson in metro area that you wanted St. John's to go after?

I know everyone likes to beat the local drum but the landscape is vastly different than it was in 1980 or 1990 or 2000.

I think his point is that while Lavin recruited incredibly well early on, and that his strategy of going after high major talent outside the tri-state area was successful, there was a missing element that any SJU coach needs to employ in this day and age.  Because the landscape is so different from the 80s - 00s, you need to cast as a wide a net as possible.  Go after talent outside the tri-state area where you have connections and a realistic shot.  But supplement that with doing your homework, developing relationships and aggressively recruiting the NY/NY area as well for the 3-star kid who is not being recruited by the "big boys" but who would be very interested in playing close to home in the Big East. 

Using Mullin's staff as an example, I think we ignored the local 3-star kids who could have really helped round out 6-10 on a roster initially and perhaps developed into something more.  Seton Hall made it a point to focus on those kids, and it has paid off.  Yea they bought Whitehead and Delgado who were the true difference makers to get the ball rolling, but would you want Jaren Rhoden on this team?  He seems to be an under-recruited kid who might make an all Big East team the next year or two.  Anthony Nelson is another one - he would have helped us a freshman and this year, even if he is about to transfer from the Hall once they land Aiken.  Champaigne is another kid who I don't think the prior staff recruited hard or would have pursued.  Look at the player he already is and what we think he'll be long term?

You have to pursue talent outside NY these days and SJU may be a realistic options for those who want to get out of the South/Midwest/Southwest and play in the NYC media market and everything it has to offer.  But you can't forget about the local AAU, HS and prep teams -- and not just because you want a shot at the 4+/5 star that the blue bloods are after -- but because there are many realistic targets that will have the desire to play at home in the Big East and be the type of kids who can develop, stay and ultimately help build a solid program.

Said no one ever. Fordham will never be anything more than a bottom feeder. Their most recent brief period of decency was late 80's/early 90's when my boy Jean Prioleau (Teaneck HS) starred there and they made a rare tourney appearance. Once Jean left they were back to their normal stature.

You are about everything so that is good news for Fordham.

You are about everything so that is good news for Fordham.

Yes omnipotent is my middle name.

Sorry man still don't understand what your counter argument is. Give some specific examples

What part of my most recent post that you win, I give up and won't waste anymore of my time DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND? Do you understand anything? No animosity meant just at my wits end, I begging you let it drop already? LOL

Lavin is not getting Fordham job. Zagoria get his sources like Andy Martino on his knees in the men’s room.

Fordham is a sleeping giant of a program with the right coach and appropriate investment.

Cept they've been sleeping longer than Rip Van Winkle with no end in sight.

So the criteria for being smarter than a dumb box of rocks is being smarter than Norm? Okay Scarsdale. Maybe lick one of the hand holds on the Metro North so we can be spared your hot takes.

Dave for crying out loud its about time you start policing this forum. Did you skip this post or are you condoning this type of talk here? Ban this guy.

So the criteria for being smarter than a dumb box of rocks is being smarter than Norm? Okay Scarsdale. Maybe lick one of the hand holds on the Metro North so we can be spared your hot takes.

If you ever saw me face to face, you’d shit yourself.