Georgetown 12/13

I guess Coles two game winners are ancient history already.

I guess Coles two game winners are ancient history already.

Nice performances but they were against St Peter's and Rider. He has been inconsistent early on and obviously it is not unexpected. His lack of court awareness and defense is concerning though.

I guess Coles two game winners are ancient history already.

If you want to place your expectations beneath the ocean and evaluate based on two bottom of the barrel teams that's on you.  There's time for improvement but he seems bewildered by the pace of play against better teams.

If you want to place your expectations beneath the ocean and evaluate based on two bottom of the barrel teams that's on you.  There's time for improvement but he seems bewildered by the pace of play against better teams.

I didn't see the Georgetown game but we have 5 wins and he hit clutch game winners in 40% of them.  Your analysis seemed to conveniently forget this and appeared to one reader a tad harsh.

I didn't see the Georgetown game but we have 5 wins and he hit clutch game winners in 40% of them.  Your analysis seemed to conveniently forget this and appeared to one reader a tad harsh.

I don't know who tad is but seems quite harsh to me. 

I didn't see the Georgetown game but we have 5 wins and he hit clutch game winners in 40% of them.  Your analysis seemed to conveniently forget this and appeared to one reader a tad harsh.

We do this every year.  We have five wins, mostly against terrible teams.  Thanks to Cole you're right we didn't lose two games against those bad teams (St. Peter's and Rider).  He gets credit for that.  But now that we're facing better competition, 0-2 in BE play again.  You know what games actually matter.  And Cole looks lost.  I certainly hopes he can play better against the improved competition but so far it doesn't look great.  He's not a freshman so he should be cut less slack for uneven play.

I guess Coles two game winners are ancient history already.

Georgetown told him he was done hitting threes. All they had to do was guard him.

I'm not a huge Moore fan but kid is playing with tremendous motor tonight and it's paying off

He should have scored 40.

Not to kiss up or anything but I think a lot of the posters on here have to admit everything Dave has said about CMA and his worries have proven to be true. Hasn't recruited enough talent here and its evident. Ceiling isn't that high, and I feel the system is totally outdated. The Game has changed and teams have players 1-5 who can handle the ball and break a press. To much pressure in the back court leads to bad rotations and so many opens hots in the front court. A bad Georgetown team almost shot 60% against us, embarrassing.

Not to kiss up or anything but I think a lot of the posters on here have to admit everything Dave has said about CMA and his worries have proven to be true. Hasn't recruited enough talent here and its evident. Ceiling isn't that high, and I feel the system is totally outdated. The Game has changed and teams have players 1-5 who can handle the ball and break a press. To much pressure in the back court leads to bad rotations and so many opens hots in the front court. A bad Georgetown team almost shot 60% against us, embarrassing.

No one is right or wrong yet. I don’t understand how we have “less talent” now than when we had freshman in the backcourt and lost to Northeastern, Delaware State, Detroit, LIU, Incarnate Word, NJIT etc.

It’s not even like those losses were prettier. We lost to f’n LIU with Shamorie Ponds and Justin Simon. It’s not the first time St.John’s has lost to LIU with McDonald’s All Americans. Fran’s first game, future Chicago Bull for ten minutes, Charles Jones lit us up.

No one is right or wrong yet. I don’t understand how we have “less talent” now than when we had freshman in the backcourt and lost to Northeastern, Delaware State, Detroit, LIU, Incarnate Word, NJIT etc.

It’s not even like those losses were prettier. We lost to f’n LIU with Shamorie Ponds and Justin Simon. It’s not the first time St.John’s has lost to LIU with McDonald’s All Americans. Fran’s first game, future Chicago Bull for ten minutes, Charles Jones lit us up.

I don't get what your point is? Mullin was a horrible coach so what's your point? That team when ponds was a freshman that lost to LIU and Delaware state had basically all freshman and sophomores playing and no depth with a clueless head coach who has never coached before. This team has a "proven" Mike Anderson coach who has won everywhere else he has gone right? This team has 3 players that are juniors that got significant minutes last year, (IDK what has happened with Roberts). I would be totally fine with some bad play and growing pains if this was a team of all freshman and sophomores that were highly rated and we didnt beat out mid majors for. And I know you are going to say oh yeah posh and Champagnie weren't highly rated and look at them! The thing is there will definitely be some diamonds but you cannot build your roster like this.

Let me ask you his from what you have seen since CMA has been hired, you truly enjoy watching this "40 minutes of hell system?" Im not asking if you think it will work in the future and to give it Tim, but do you honestly enjoy watching the system

I don't get what your point is? Mullin was a horrible coach so what's your point? That team when ponds was a freshman that lost to LIU and Delaware state had basically all freshman and sophomores playing and no depth with a clueless head coach who has never coached before. This team has a "proven" Mike Anderson coach who has won everywhere else he has gone right? This team has 3 players that are juniors that got significant minutes last year, (IDK what has happened with Roberts). I would be totally fine with some bad play and growing pains if this was a team of all freshman and sophomores that were highly rated and we didnt beat out mid majors for. And I know you are going to say oh yeah posh and Champagnie weren't highly rated and look at them! The thing is there will definitely be some diamonds but you cannot build your roster like this.

Let me ask you his from what you have seen since CMA has been hired, you truly enjoy watching this "40 minutes of hell system?" Im not asking if you think it will work in the future and to give it Tim, but do you honestly enjoy watching the system

There are some things that I like, but there is a long way to go. That said, CMA needs to be evaluated with the players he’s recruited. He didn’t choose Josh Roberts, Marcellus Earlington, David Caraher, and Greg Williams were here when CMA took over. He brought in jucos because these guys weren’t good enough. The point that Dave made that I absolutely agree with is that these guys should all be in better shape, but the dead weight on this team was what Mullin left him. Not what he’s added.

There are some things that I like, but there is a long way to go. That said, CMA needs to be evaluated with the players he’s recruited. He didn’t choose Josh Roberts, Marcellus Earlington, David Caraher, and Greg Williams were here when CMA took over. He brought in jucos because these guys weren’t good enough. The point that Dave made that I absolutely agree with is that these guys should all be in better shape, but the dead weight on this team was what Mullin left him. Not what he’s added.

He brought in Juco's because that is how he recruits. He inherited Mustapha Heron, LJ, Greg Williams plus Marcellus, Roberts, and Caraher. None of them are dead weight.  They've all flashed ability. Now compare that to what Mullin inherited.

Not to kiss up or anything but I think a lot of the posters on here have to admit everything Dave has said about CMA and his worries have proven to be true. Hasn't recruited enough talent here and its evident. Ceiling isn't that high, and I feel the system is totally outdated. The Game has changed and teams have players 1-5 who can handle the ball and break a press. To much pressure in the back court leads to bad rotations and so many opens hots in the front court. A bad Georgetown team almost shot 60% against us, embarrassing.

If we don’t blow the 7 point lead we have enough talent?

Plenty of things to disagree with and question during the gtown game. Coach himself took the blame and I agree with him. But you can’t view it in a vacuum.

There are some things that I like, but there is a long way to go. That said, CMA needs to be evaluated with the players he’s recruited. He didn’t choose Josh Roberts, Marcellus Earlington, David Caraher, and Greg Williams were here when CMA took over. He brought in jucos because these guys weren’t good enough. The point that Dave made that I absolutely agree with is that these guys should all be in better shape, but the dead weight on this team was what Mullin left him. Not what he’s added.

The thing that bothers me is that so may people (not saying you) were raving about how much CMA developed Mullins recruits well that Mullin couldn't do. Everyone said look how great these guys are playing under him and they really fit his system! Now others are saying oh we need CMA recruits in here. Greg Williams was a really talented 4 star kid out of high school. He's gotten better each year I would not say he's not good enough.

I feel like Dave who works in the business knows players and coaches. He has a the pulse of what is going on in college basketball and what it takes to be successful. I just think a lot of fans on here are delusional and don't want to believe what he says because you are eternal optimists.

The fact of the matter is that we as a University made the mistake of firing Lavin. He was the best coach weave had here in a long time and if he stayed we would probably be in the same boat as Willard at the Hall and Cooley at Providence. If you want to bring up that Lavin stopped recruiting, I listened to a podcast he was on and said he knew he was out the door and the plan was to bring in Mullin. He also dealt with having to sit out a year as well. He isn't the best in game coach but he's the best we've had and it isn't even close.

If we don’t blow the 7 point lead we have enough talent?

Plenty of things to disagree with and question during the gtown game. Coach himself took the blame and I agree with him. But you can’t view it in a vacuum.

But we did blow a 7 point lead to one of the worst teams in the Big East. We also blew a lot of leads and couldn't close out games last year, not a good trend. If you want to say that I can say, if we lost to St. Peters and Rider like we almost did would you be singing a different tune as well? So yeah Id say since we lost to Gtown who didn't have one of their starters, yes we don't have enough talent to properly close out games and to compete with he better teams in the BE

But we did blow a 7 point lead to one of the worst teams in the Big East. We also blew a lot of leads and couldn't close out games last year, not a good trend. If you want to say that I can say, if we lost to St. Peters and Rider like we almost did would you be singing a different tune as well? So yeah Id say since we lost to Gtown who didn't have one of their starters, yes we don't have enough talent to properly close out games and to compete with he better teams in the BE

I agree it’s not a good trend. Freshmen point guard should be noted. No one on his system for more than 40 games should be noted. I’m not trying to convince you we’ve played well. I think the talent in his 2 classes is enough to win here, but it’s only 2 classes.

I agree it’s not a good trend. Freshmen point guard should be noted. No one on his system for more than 40 games should be noted. I’m not trying to convince you we’ve played well. I think the talent in his 2 classes is enough to win here, but it’s only 2 classes.

Totally respect the difference of opinion. Im just not sold not he system or the recruiting to date. That definitely could change though (I hope).

Lets say they win 4-5 big east games this year. Will you be alarmed or optimistic heading into next year with CMA at the helm?

Totally respect the difference of opinion. Im just not sold not he system or the recruiting to date. That definitely could change though (I hope).

Lets say they win 4-5 big east games this year. Will you be alarmed or optimistic heading into next year with CMA at the helm?

If we are able to play a full season only win 5 games in the BE all I’ll say is I won’t be happy. That should be obvious. But I won’t be calling for his head. It would have to get much much worse for me to not give him at least 4 full seasons here. His track record (and for Christ sake ours!) should earn him that much.

The thing that bothers me is that so may people (not saying you) were raving about how much CMA developed Mullins recruits well that Mullin couldn't do. Everyone said look how great these guys are playing under him and they really fit his system! Now others are saying oh we need CMA recruits in here. Greg Williams was a really talented 4 star kid out of high school. He's gotten better each year I would not say he's not good enough.

Alternate explanation: Mullin's kids benefited from having a year to get acclimated to college while working with two hall of famers and the farther they get from that experience the worse off they are. Last year LJF and Heron regressed. This year Earlington Roberts and even Caraher have regressed. Other than Williams - a pretty good player on a normal four year player trajectory for improvement - what evidence is there that Anderson's made anyone a better player? Because to me they seem to me nearly to a man worse. inb4 Champagnie, because we can't credit Anderson for both having an eye for diamonds in the rough who are better than their rating and for making players better after a summer on campus.

I just think a lot of fans on here are delusional

Bump.

The fact of the matter is that we as a University made the mistake of firing Lavin. He was the best coach weave had here in a long time and if he stayed we would probably be in the same boat as Willard at the Hall and Cooley at Providence. If you want to bring up that Lavin stopped recruiting, I listened to a podcast he was on and said he knew he was out the door and the plan was to bring in Mullin. He also dealt with having to sit out a year as well. He isn't the best in game coach but he's the best we've had and it isn't even close.

I detested Lavin and even I agree that getting rid of him just to get rid of Mullin after four years was just another in the lunatic coaching decisions SJ has made. That said, everything that Lavin says is a self-serving lie, including "an" and "the." That he expects anyone to believe that he quit recruiting because he knew Mullin was coach in waiting, that his assistant coaches were exchanging fraudulent transcripts in darkened parking lots and that he spent the summer recruiting the French Riviera and came home with Amar Alibagowitz because he saw the writing on the wall, that's patently absurd. He recruited poorly because he was lazy slob and a bad judge of talent and character. He gave a scholarship to an arch criminal (Jordan) and a dyed in the wool sociopath (Obekpa) and walked on a mass murderer ("Thurston" Howell Donaldson III) for god sake. Was that Mullin's fault too?