Seton Hall beats #19 USC!!!

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Re: Seton Hall beats #19 USC!!!
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2008, 03:14:21 PM »
How'd OJ do?

NBA

Exactly.

Cmon, you gotta be fir about this.  Does Gonzo cross the line quite a bit?  In my opinion (and many others') he does.  But the man can coach.  He's beaten a high-major with 7 scholarship players and he's easily handled the other 2 mid-majors he has played.  He is a very, very good coach.

Like my grams say: "Even a broken clock is right twice a day."



when was the last time we beat a ranked team? When was the last time we beat a good team?


What that gotta do wit Hall ball?

which is why this is going to offtopic.
When you're a kid from New York and you do it in New York, that lasts forever!

Marillac

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Re: Seton Hall beats #19 USC!!!
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2008, 03:15:20 PM »
This notion that UCLA is down is patently ridiculous.  The UCLA senior class is UCLA basketball.  Darren Collison, Josh Shipp, Alfred Aboya, and Michael Roll have been logging serious minutes since UCLA went on this run.  They each have three final fours under their belt--Shipp actually having four. Add to that redshirt junior, James Keefe.

The stars like Farmar, Love, Westbrook, etc have come and gone.  None staying for more than two years, but the team keeps rolling because of the core I listed above. 

You add to them two future lottery pick guards in Jrue Holliday and Malcom Lee and they still have as much talent 1-3 as any team in the country--if not more.

They might be a little light up front, but they also have one of the top four coaches in the country.


Aboya, Keefe and Roll are role players.  UCLA lost 53% of their mins played, 58% of their scoring and 66% of their rebounding but you think they're not down.  Let me clarify, by down I mean they are more a 10-25 team than a surefire final four pick . . . it is all relative.  Yes the frosh guards are good but what they really need is Gordon or Morgan to make an impact as a frosh.  A little light up front is a bit of an understatement.

I don't think you are giving those three enough credit.  Keefe was HUGE for them late and Aboya and Roll were more than role players, and would probably start at 95% of the schools in the country.

You are exactly right that what they need is Morgan or Gordon to step up, but the signature of Howland's UCLA teams has been defense and guard play.  Before Love, they didn't really have a terrific big man.  

I think Aboya and Keefe make up a very nice front.  Will they have trouble against a frontline of a UNC or G'town?  Probably. But their guard play can hang with UNC and outplay G'town by a good margin.  

Re: Seton Hall beats #19 USC!!!
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2008, 03:18:55 PM »
This notion that UCLA is down is patently ridiculous.  The UCLA senior class is UCLA basketball.  Darren Collison, Josh Shipp, Alfred Aboya, and Michael Roll have been logging serious minutes since UCLA went on this run.  They each have three final fours under their belt--Shipp actually having four. Add to that redshirt junior, James Keefe.

The stars like Farmar, Love, Westbrook, etc have come and gone.  None staying for more than two years, but the team keeps rolling because of the core I listed above. 

You add to them two future lottery pick guards in Jrue Holliday and Malcom Lee and they still have as much talent 1-3 as any team in the country--if not more.

They might be a little light up front, but they also have one of the top four coaches in the country.


Aboya, Keefe and Roll are role players.  UCLA lost 53% of their mins played, 58% of their scoring and 66% of their rebounding but you think they're not down.  Let me clarify, by down I mean they are more a 10-25 team than a surefire final four pick . . . it is all relative.  Yes the frosh guards are good but what they really need is Gordon or Morgan to make an impact as a frosh.  A little light up front is a bit of an understatement.

I don't think you are giving those three enough credit.  Keefe was HUGE for them late and Aboya and Roll were more than role players, and would probably start at 95% of the schools in the country.

You are exactly right that what they need is Morgan or Gordon to step up, but the signature of Howland's UCLA teams has been defense and guard play.  Before Love, they didn't really have a terrific big man.  

I think Aboya and Keefe make up a very nice front.  Will they have trouble against a frontline of a UNC or G'town?  Probably. But their guard play can hang with UNC and outplay G'town by a good margin.  
Outside shooting and, by quality standards, an average frontcourt will be their downfall.

Marillac

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Re: Seton Hall beats #19 USC!!!
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2008, 04:04:24 PM »
This notion that UCLA is down is patently ridiculous.  The UCLA senior class is UCLA basketball.  Darren Collison, Josh Shipp, Alfred Aboya, and Michael Roll have been logging serious minutes since UCLA went on this run.  They each have three final fours under their belt--Shipp actually having four. Add to that redshirt junior, James Keefe.

The stars like Farmar, Love, Westbrook, etc have come and gone.  None staying for more than two years, but the team keeps rolling because of the core I listed above. 

You add to them two future lottery pick guards in Jrue Holliday and Malcom Lee and they still have as much talent 1-3 as any team in the country--if not more.

They might be a little light up front, but they also have one of the top four coaches in the country.


Aboya, Keefe and Roll are role players.  UCLA lost 53% of their mins played, 58% of their scoring and 66% of their rebounding but you think they're not down.  Let me clarify, by down I mean they are more a 10-25 team than a surefire final four pick . . . it is all relative.  Yes the frosh guards are good but what they really need is Gordon or Morgan to make an impact as a frosh.  A little light up front is a bit of an understatement.

I don't think you are giving those three enough credit.  Keefe was HUGE for them late and Aboya and Roll were more than role players, and would probably start at 95% of the schools in the country.

You are exactly right that what they need is Morgan or Gordon to step up, but the signature of Howland's UCLA teams has been defense and guard play.  Before Love, they didn't really have a terrific big man.  

I think Aboya and Keefe make up a very nice front.  Will they have trouble against a frontline of a UNC or G'town?  Probably. But their guard play can hang with UNC and outplay G'town by a good margin.  
Outside shooting and, by quality standards, an average frontcourt will be their downfall.

Outside shooting?  Collison is a manchild from the perimeter.  He shot 52.5% from three last year.  That is ridiculous.  He was 44.5% from three as a soph and he's again over 50% this year.

Josh Shipp shot 32.4% from three with 5.5 attempts per game last year.  Not amazing, but with that many attempts it is good.  Roll is also a career 36.6% shooter from deep and should be at 40% or above this year.  The super frosh Holiday can also stroke and as well as the soph Dragovic, who hasn't shot it well yet but has a rep as a great shooter.  In addition, Keefe is also a great shooter for a PF.

It's not like Westbrook was a killer from deep last year.  He's the only guard they lost.  He only shot 33% last year.  Their shooting will be as good or better than last year.  The ony question with them is the frontcourt, but that was also a question the first two times they wen to the Final Four and that worked out pretty well for them.


Re: Seton Hall beats #19 USC!!!
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2008, 04:19:44 PM »
This notion that UCLA is down is patently ridiculous.  The UCLA senior class is UCLA basketball.  Darren Collison, Josh Shipp, Alfred Aboya, and Michael Roll have been logging serious minutes since UCLA went on this run.  They each have three final fours under their belt--Shipp actually having four. Add to that redshirt junior, James Keefe.

The stars like Farmar, Love, Westbrook, etc have come and gone.  None staying for more than two years, but the team keeps rolling because of the core I listed above. 

You add to them two future lottery pick guards in Jrue Holliday and Malcom Lee and they still have as much talent 1-3 as any team in the country--if not more.

They might be a little light up front, but they also have one of the top four coaches in the country.


Aboya, Keefe and Roll are role players.  UCLA lost 53% of their mins played, 58% of their scoring and 66% of their rebounding but you think they're not down.  Let me clarify, by down I mean they are more a 10-25 team than a surefire final four pick . . . it is all relative.  Yes the frosh guards are good but what they really need is Gordon or Morgan to make an impact as a frosh.  A little light up front is a bit of an understatement.

I don't think you are giving those three enough credit.  Keefe was HUGE for them late and Aboya and Roll were more than role players, and would probably start at 95% of the schools in the country.

You are exactly right that what they need is Morgan or Gordon to step up, but the signature of Howland's UCLA teams has been defense and guard play.  Before Love, they didn't really have a terrific big man. 

I think Aboya and Keefe make up a very nice front.  Will they have trouble against a frontline of a UNC or G'town?  Probably. But their guard play can hang with UNC and outplay G'town by a good margin. 

Maybe not but I go to a couple games a year and lots of my friends are season ticket holding alums.  And as many agree with me as you.   ;)

Yes, Keefe was extremely highly touted out of HS and finally reached half of his potential last year in the tournament, but he hasn't excelled yet this year.  Aboya is a role playing big, doesn't do anything tremendously (he's playing over 30 and rebounding less than JB) and Roll is eh, although he can get hot from the outside. 

No Howland team is ever going to suck but this team at least in November (kind of makes this discussion pointless but still fun) is nowhere near as good as any of the last three unless Jrue plays up to the standards of Afflalo and Westbrook (he well may but those standards are pretty high and neither of them did it as frosh) and one of the frosh provide an interior presence of some sort.  Of course it's early and my opinion has every right to change every Friday through March.

Oh and Collison is shooting 50% from 3 again this year but the rest of the team is shooting 30%.

One more thing I don't like so far is that Collison is the only guy averaging more than 10 pts per game so far.  I guess it's fair to say that they're all having a slow start but really he's the PG, someone else needs to step up and score.


Marillac

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Re: Seton Hall beats #19 USC!!!
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2008, 04:33:26 PM »
This notion that UCLA is down is patently ridiculous.  The UCLA senior class is UCLA basketball.  Darren Collison, Josh Shipp, Alfred Aboya, and Michael Roll have been logging serious minutes since UCLA went on this run.  They each have three final fours under their belt--Shipp actually having four. Add to that redshirt junior, James Keefe.

The stars like Farmar, Love, Westbrook, etc have come and gone.  None staying for more than two years, but the team keeps rolling because of the core I listed above. 

You add to them two future lottery pick guards in Jrue Holliday and Malcom Lee and they still have as much talent 1-3 as any team in the country--if not more.

They might be a little light up front, but they also have one of the top four coaches in the country.


Aboya, Keefe and Roll are role players.  UCLA lost 53% of their mins played, 58% of their scoring and 66% of their rebounding but you think they're not down.  Let me clarify, by down I mean they are more a 10-25 team than a surefire final four pick . . . it is all relative.  Yes the frosh guards are good but what they really need is Gordon or Morgan to make an impact as a frosh.  A little light up front is a bit of an understatement.

I don't think you are giving those three enough credit.  Keefe was HUGE for them late and Aboya and Roll were more than role players, and would probably start at 95% of the schools in the country.

You are exactly right that what they need is Morgan or Gordon to step up, but the signature of Howland's UCLA teams has been defense and guard play.  Before Love, they didn't really have a terrific big man. 

I think Aboya and Keefe make up a very nice front.  Will they have trouble against a frontline of a UNC or G'town?  Probably. But their guard play can hang with UNC and outplay G'town by a good margin. 

Maybe not but I go to a couple games a year and lots of my friends are season ticket holding alums.  And as many agree with me as you.   ;)

Yes, Keefe was extremely highly touted out of HS and finally reached half of his potential last year in the tournament, but he hasn't excelled yet this year.  Aboya is a role playing big, doesn't do anything tremendously (he's playing over 30 and rebounding less than JB) and Roll is eh, although he can get hot from the outside. 

No Howland team is ever going to suck but this team at least in November (kind of makes this discussion pointless but still fun) is nowhere near as good as any of the last three unless Jrue plays up to the standards of Afflalo and Westbrook (he well may but those standards are pretty high and neither of them did it as frosh) and one of the frosh provide an interior presence of some sort.  Of course it's early and my opinion has every right to change every Friday through March.

Oh and Collison is shooting 50% from 3 again this year but the rest of the team is shooting 30%.

One more thing I don't like so far is that Collison is the only guy averaging more than 10 pts per game so far.  I guess it's fair to say that they're all having a slow start but really he's the PG, someone else needs to step up and score.



UCLA will be there in the Elite Eight again and pushing for yet another Final Four appearance.  They almost didn't reach it last year thanks to my WKU Hilltoppers, but they got by in a close game. 

After this year, they might have some problems replacing all those vets. 

Marillac

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Re: Seton Hall beats #19 USC!!!
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2008, 04:38:01 PM »
And don't forget Collison, Roll, and Shipp practiced every day against eachother Jordan Farmar for a year, Russell Westrbrook for two years, and now with Lee and Holliday.  Not to mention playing against guys like Bayless and OJ Mayo in conference. 

The bigs last year got to bang around with Kevin Love for a year.  That can only help.

Re: Seton Hall beats #19 USC!!!
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2008, 04:51:50 PM »
After this year, they might have some problems replacing all those vets. 

That's right, they only have 4 top 100 guys coming in next year (vs 5 top 100 guys this year).

LOL

Re: Seton Hall beats #19 USC!!!
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2008, 07:10:12 PM »
After this year, they might have some problems replacing all those vets. 
That's right, they only have 4 top 100 guys coming in next year (vs 5 top 100 guys this year).

LOL
It's a problem I wish we'd have. :) They might lose Holliday to the draft.
My cousin follows recruiting a lot closer, but he thought the overall caliber of players in UCLA's 2008 class is a notch above their 2009 class.

Re: Seton Hall beats #19 USC!!!
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2008, 07:17:33 PM »
Seton Hall is no joke.  I just watched them beat Virginia Tech by 4 today.  Jeremy Hazell is the real deal.  This team is dangerous.
"When excuses become your reason for losing then it is time to find the nearest mirror." -Mike Dunlap

Marillac

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Re: Seton Hall beats #19 USC!!!
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2008, 07:52:18 PM »
Seton Hall is no joke.  I just watched them beat Virginia Tech by 4 today.  Jeremy Hazell is the real deal.  This team is dangerous.

He's an animal.  If he ever decided to play defense, he woudl be a surefire first round pick.