What has Norm done well?

Quote from: Dave on December 30, 2008, 11:00:56 AM

Quote from: pmg911 on December 30, 2008, 08:19:16 AM

Quote from: Jacstorm on December 29, 2008, 05:27:09 PM

To add to what Choz said:

Took over a program whose talent level and recruiting relationships were an utter joke. Improved the talent every year.. which includes something we haven’t seen in a long time – individual kids (not all and not all at the same pace) are improving. The recruiting relationships are being rebuilt and improving every year. The school’s reputation, which was in the toilet, is unbelievably better.

Tailored his coaching to his talent. When it was nonexistent he played one way. Now, with some talent, we’re running. Often good plays and play out of time-outs and half-time.

Doing a very difficult job the right way. And before we hear Baylor! Ohio State! I’ve said for a long time that even Baylor was nowhere near in as bad shape as we were.

And by the way, News.. the assistant did his time. In your mind he still shouldn’t be hired?? And Malik, Justin, Omari are tokens??

First and most important..  if you think that the coaches in the city thinking Norm is a good guy means the "recruiting relationships" are repaired you are sorely mistaken. Multiple coaches in the CHSAA would never ever send a top player to Norm.

Baylor had a player on their team MURDER another player and the coach trying to blatantly cover up paying players. Do you really think the situation St. John's was worse than that.?

Malik has shown himself to NOT be a Big East player, Justin Burrell, while from the Bronx, is not a city player. He attended school on Long Island and in CT. Omari is a legit recruit but until he actually steps on the courtt for St. John's, he doesn't count.

Lastly, as a selfish fan, I hope Coach Young can get some players here. The reality of the situation is that Norm showed himself desperate to get some connection to recruit city players because he had failed miseribly since the day he started. He didn't hire some guy who was convicted of disorderly condcut or possesion of a little marajiuna. He hired a convicted DRUG DEALER who got caught with 96lbs of pot. Paid his time or not, this guy could not get a job teaching in any school system in America and his record would immediately disqualify him from mulitple professions.

Can you explain how you know about all the opinions of all the CHSAA coaches?

How has Malik shown he isn't a Big East player?

We praise other schools for their hirings of assistant coaches and administrative  assistants for their connections with certain recruits but when our coach does it we call him desperate. This is clearly what they call a double standard.

If you look at our roster, we have one kid from the CHSAA, Boothe, and many thought he was a reach to go to high major in the first place.  I like Boothe, but I think the situation was too good for his coach to not recommend St. John's. 

If I were a high school coach I would steer just about all of my players away from St. John's, but I would have seen a good fit for Malik with the chance to start four years and possibly play the last 2-3 with a new coach.

Quote from: Dave on December 30, 2008, 11:00:56 AM

Quote from: pmg911 on December 30, 2008, 08:19:16 AM

Quote from: Jacstorm on December 29, 2008, 05:27:09 PM

To add to what Choz said:

Took over a program whose talent level and recruiting relationships were an utter joke. Improved the talent every year.. which includes something we haven’t seen in a long time – individual kids (not all and not all at the same pace) are improving. The recruiting relationships are being rebuilt and improving every year. The school’s reputation, which was in the toilet, is unbelievably better.

Tailored his coaching to his talent. When it was nonexistent he played one way. Now, with some talent, we’re running. Often good plays and play out of time-outs and half-time.

Doing a very difficult job the right way. And before we hear Baylor! Ohio State! I’ve said for a long time that even Baylor was nowhere near in as bad shape as we were.

And by the way, News.. the assistant did his time. In your mind he still shouldn’t be hired?? And Malik, Justin, Omari are tokens??

First and most important..  if you think that the coaches in the city thinking Norm is a good guy means the "recruiting relationships" are repaired you are sorely mistaken. Multiple coaches in the CHSAA would never ever send a top player to Norm.

Baylor had a player on their team MURDER another player and the coach trying to blatantly cover up paying players. Do you really think the situation St. John's was worse than that.?

Malik has shown himself to NOT be a Big East player, Justin Burrell, while from the Bronx, is not a city player. He attended school on Long Island and in CT. Omari is a legit recruit but until he actually steps on the courtt for St. John's, he doesn't count.

Lastly, as a selfish fan, I hope Coach Young can get some players here. The reality of the situation is that Norm showed himself desperate to get some connection to recruit city players because he had failed miseribly since the day he started. He didn't hire some guy who was convicted of disorderly condcut or possesion of a little marajiuna. He hired a convicted DRUG DEALER who got caught with 96lbs of pot. Paid his time or not, this guy could not get a job teaching in any school system in America and his record would immediately disqualify him from mulitple professions.

Can you explain how you know about all the opinions of all the CHSAA coaches?

How has Malik shown he isn't a Big East player?

We praise other schools for their hirings of assistant coaches and administrative  assistants for their connections with certain recruits but when our coach does it we call him desperate. This is clearly what they call a double standard.

If you look at our roster, we have one kid from the CHSAA, Boothe, and many thought he was a reach to go to high major in the first place.  I like Boothe, but I think the situation was too good for his coach to not recommend St. John's. 

If I were a high school coach I would steer just about all of my players away from St. John's, but I would have seen a good fit for Malik with the chance to start four years and possibly play the last 2-3 with a new coach.

Also, I don't see a double-standard with PMG and other posters being mad about hiring a convicted drug felon on the staff when other programs don't have one.  To be a double-standard most variables have to be the same, which they clearly are not here. 

I have no problem hiring somebody who makes one mistake like that and does the time, but guys like PMG and Marco have been pretty consistent on issues like this for years irrespective of the situation or schools/teams involved.

Quote from: Marillac on December 30, 2008, 11:22:25 AM

Quote from: Dave on December 30, 2008, 11:00:56 AM

Quote from: pmg911 on December 30, 2008, 08:19:16 AM

Quote from: Jacstorm on December 29, 2008, 05:27:09 PM

To add to what Choz said:

Took over a program whose talent level and recruiting relationships were an utter joke. Improved the talent every year.. which includes something we haven’t seen in a long time – individual kids (not all and not all at the same pace) are improving. The recruiting relationships are being rebuilt and improving every year. The school’s reputation, which was in the toilet, is unbelievably better.

Tailored his coaching to his talent. When it was nonexistent he played one way. Now, with some talent, we’re running. Often good plays and play out of time-outs and half-time.

Doing a very difficult job the right way. And before we hear Baylor! Ohio State! I’ve said for a long time that even Baylor was nowhere near in as bad shape as we were.

And by the way, News.. the assistant did his time. In your mind he still shouldn’t be hired?? And Malik, Justin, Omari are tokens??

First and most important..  if you think that the coaches in the city thinking Norm is a good guy means the "recruiting relationships" are repaired you are sorely mistaken. Multiple coaches in the CHSAA would never ever send a top player to Norm.

Baylor had a player on their team MURDER another player and the coach trying to blatantly cover up paying players. Do you really think the situation St. John's was worse than that.?

Malik has shown himself to NOT be a Big East player, Justin Burrell, while from the Bronx, is not a city player. He attended school on Long Island and in CT. Omari is a legit recruit but until he actually steps on the courtt for St. John's, he doesn't count.

Lastly, as a selfish fan, I hope Coach Young can get some players here. The reality of the situation is that Norm showed himself desperate to get some connection to recruit city players because he had failed miseribly since the day he started. He didn't hire some guy who was convicted of disorderly condcut or possesion of a little marajiuna. He hired a convicted DRUG DEALER who got caught with 96lbs of pot. Paid his time or not, this guy could not get a job teaching in any school system in America and his record would immediately disqualify him from mulitple professions.

Can you explain how you know about all the opinions of all the CHSAA coaches?

How has Malik shown he isn't a Big East player?

We praise other schools for their hirings of assistant coaches and administrative  assistants for their connections with certain recruits but when our coach does it we call him desperate. This is clearly what they call a double standard.

If you look at our roster, we have one kid from the CHSAA, Boothe, and many thought he was a reach to go to high major in the first place.  I like Boothe, but I think the situation was too good for his coach to not recommend St. John's. 

If I were a high school coach I would steer just about all of my players away from St. John's, but I would have seen a good fit for Malik with the chance to start four years and possibly play the last 2-3 with a new coach.

Why would you steer your kids away? Its comments like these that don't help our program. Kids read these boards. If you sent a few kids to the program then it could change and I think we all know how much potential St. John's yields.

Quote from: Marillac on December 30, 2008, 11:22:25 AM

Quote from: Dave on December 30, 2008, 11:00:56 AM

Quote from: pmg911 on December 30, 2008, 08:19:16 AM

Quote from: Jacstorm on December 29, 2008, 05:27:09 PM

To add to what Choz said:

Took over a program whose talent level and recruiting relationships were an utter joke. Improved the talent every year.. which includes something we haven’t seen in a long time – individual kids (not all and not all at the same pace) are improving. The recruiting relationships are being rebuilt and improving every year. The school’s reputation, which was in the toilet, is unbelievably better.

Tailored his coaching to his talent. When it was nonexistent he played one way. Now, with some talent, we’re running. Often good plays and play out of time-outs and half-time.

Doing a very difficult job the right way. And before we hear Baylor! Ohio State! I’ve said for a long time that even Baylor was nowhere near in as bad shape as we were.

And by the way, News.. the assistant did his time. In your mind he still shouldn’t be hired?? And Malik, Justin, Omari are tokens??

First and most important..  if you think that the coaches in the city thinking Norm is a good guy means the "recruiting relationships" are repaired you are sorely mistaken. Multiple coaches in the CHSAA would never ever send a top player to Norm.

Baylor had a player on their team MURDER another player and the coach trying to blatantly cover up paying players. Do you really think the situation St. John's was worse than that.?

Malik has shown himself to NOT be a Big East player, Justin Burrell, while from the Bronx, is not a city player. He attended school on Long Island and in CT. Omari is a legit recruit but until he actually steps on the courtt for St. John's, he doesn't count.

Lastly, as a selfish fan, I hope Coach Young can get some players here. The reality of the situation is that Norm showed himself desperate to get some connection to recruit city players because he had failed miseribly since the day he started. He didn't hire some guy who was convicted of disorderly condcut or possesion of a little marajiuna. He hired a convicted DRUG DEALER who got caught with 96lbs of pot. Paid his time or not, this guy could not get a job teaching in any school system in America and his record would immediately disqualify him from mulitple professions.

Can you explain how you know about all the opinions of all the CHSAA coaches?

How has Malik shown he isn't a Big East player?

We praise other schools for their hirings of assistant coaches and administrative  assistants for their connections with certain recruits but when our coach does it we call him desperate. This is clearly what they call a double standard.

If you look at our roster, we have one kid from the CHSAA, Boothe, and many thought he was a reach to go to high major in the first place.  I like Boothe, but I think the situation was too good for his coach to not recommend St. John's. 

If I were a high school coach I would steer just about all of my players away from St. John's, but I would have seen a good fit for Malik with the chance to start four years and possibly play the last 2-3 with a new coach.

Why would you steer your kids away? Its comments like these that don't help our program. Kids read these boards. If you sent a few kids to the program then it could change and I think we all know how much potential St. John's yields.

WASJU, what are you saying about the quality of your (and PMG's) posts?!!

But I do think that kids can be influenced by negativity and vitriol, especially if it confirms common scuttlebutt about a program.  One advantage of St. John's, by the way, is that the papers still cover the team in a limited way (and will do so again).  In Chicago, you can't find information about DePaul at all.  That's a sad program.

Quote from: peter on December 30, 2008, 11:56:07 AM

WASJU, what are you saying about the quality of your (and PMG's) posts?!!

But I do think that kids can be influenced by negativity and vitriol, especially if it confirms common scuttlebutt about a program.  One advantage of St. John's, by the way, is that the papers still cover the team in a limited way (and will do so again).  In Chicago, you can't find information about DePaul at all.  That's a sad program.

So if you were a big recruit, you would be swayed by something I posted? As opposed to showing up at a game at the Garden where 850 fans quietly watch us struggle to score 60 points as we lose by 40?
If you think I can sway smeone with my posts, what is Norm's coaching doing?

Quote from: we are sju on December 30, 2008, 12:00:01 PM

Quote from: peter on December 30, 2008, 11:56:07 AM

WASJU, what are you saying about the quality of your (and PMG's) posts?!!

But I do think that kids can be influenced by negativity and vitriol, especially if it confirms common scuttlebutt about a program.  One advantage of St. John's, by the way, is that the papers still cover the team in a limited way (and will do so again).  In Chicago, you can't find information about DePaul at all.  That's a sad program.

So if you were a big recruit, you would be swayed by something I posted? As opposed to showing up at a game at the Garden where 850 fans quietly watch us struggle to score 60 points as we lose by 40?
If you think I can sway smeone with my posts, what is Norm's coaching doing?

Influenced.  Not completely swayed one way or another.  If you didn't write to influence other people's thoughts, then why would you post?  Isn't that the reason for message boards, to commiserate, to argue, to agree, to posit your line of thinking? 

The message board is a voice for the fans.  A good coach can work right on through that; and a good coach can bring in talent no matter what is said about them. 

But there are insiders on here, and longtime fans, and these folks paint a picture to the world at large of the state of the program that's deeper than what one reads in the Daily News.  I have no problem with it, and I'm not saying anything about people only posting hearts and flowers.

And if this many people are pissed off, and there are no defenders of the program and coach, it's the coach that has a serious problem.

what people say on message boards don't matter at all.  so what if a potential recruit reads somebody wouldn't send their guy here, or if a mainstream journalist sees people hate norm?

the only enemy for st john's success is norm roberts and father harrington, that's it.  not the passionate fans who post on the boards, who can "sway a decision" in recruiting.  if norm was a half-decent coach, then no one would be making those comments anyway.  don't make it seem like norm has been under the radar

Quote from: Randomhero423 on December 30, 2008, 12:42:15 PM

what people say on message boards don't matter at all.  so what if a potential recruit reads somebody wouldn't send their guy here, or if a mainstream journalist sees people hate norm?

the only enemy for st john's success is norm roberts and father harrington, that's it.  not the passionate fans who post on the boards, who can "sway a decision" in recruiting.  if norm was a half-decent coach, then no one would be making those comments anyway.  don't make it seem like norm has been under the radar

I disagree.  I don't think it matters that much.  But wouldn't you rather hear a little love for your name rather than "who?  THAT GUY? He sucks!" And haven't we all heard DeVoe Joseph and [the guy who transferred to Rutgers, I forget his name] say they're not certain about the situation/ whether Norm will be coaching?  Where did they get that?  Not from the school, not from the coach.  That has to come from other message boards and/ or other coaches.  Didn't Redmen post some rumor that Dick Weiss later posted as truth, only to find out it was false? 

So don't say that what is said on message boards "don't matter at all".  That's simplistic, and if they didn't matter, none of you would be posting around the clock. 

A good and convincing coach can overcome that.  Never said Norm was under the radar.

Quote from: Marco Baldi on December 29, 2008, 10:32:56 PM

I hate the double posts but I will give the same response.

I know something Norm does well. He doesnt pay his players well, thats something every other coach at St Johns succeeded in

The stipend was legal --- what proof do you have that any other payments were made?  Jarvis paid Keita, yes.  Please detail how Fraschilla, Mahoney, and Looie broke NCAA violations by paying players illegally or stop with this ridiculous accusation.

Quote from: pmg911 on December 30, 2008, 08:19:16 AM

Quote from: Jacstorm on December 29, 2008, 05:27:09 PM

To add to what Choz said:

Took over a program whose talent level and recruiting relationships were an utter joke. Improved the talent every year.. which includes something we haven’t seen in a long time – individual kids (not all and not all at the same pace) are improving. The recruiting relationships are being rebuilt and improving every year. The school’s reputation, which was in the toilet, is unbelievably better.

Tailored his coaching to his talent. When it was nonexistent he played one way. Now, with some talent, we’re running. Often good plays and play out of time-outs and half-time.

Doing a very difficult job the right way. And before we hear Baylor! Ohio State! I’ve said for a long time that even Baylor was nowhere near in as bad shape as we were.

And by the way, News.. the assistant did his time. In your mind he still shouldn’t be hired?? And Malik, Justin, Omari are tokens??

First and most important..  if you think that the coaches in the city thinking Norm is a good guy means the "recruiting relationships" are repaired you are sorely mistaken. Multiple coaches in the CHSAA would never ever send a top player to Norm.

Baylor had a player on their team MURDER another player and the coach trying to blatantly cover up paying players. Do you really think the situation St. John's was worse than that.?

Malik has shown himself to NOT be a Big East player, Justin Burrell, while from the Bronx, is not a city player. He attended school on Long Island and in CT. Omari is a legit recruit but until he actually steps on the courtt for St. John's, he doesn't count.

Lastly, as a selfish fan, I hope Coach Young can get some players here. The reality of the situation is that Norm showed himself desperate to get some connection to recruit city players because he had failed miseribly since the day he started. He didn't hire some guy who was convicted of disorderly condcut or possesion of a little marajiuna. He hired a convicted DRUG DEALER who got caught with 96lbs of pot. Paid his time or not, this guy could not get a job teaching in any school system in America and his record would immediately disqualify him from mulitple professions.

Can you explain how you know about all the opinions of all the CHSAA coaches?

How has Malik shown he isn't a Big East player?

We praise other schools for their hirings of assistant coaches and administrative  assistants for their connections with certain recruits but when our coach does it we call him desperate. This is clearly what they call a double standard.

Quote from: Dave on December 30, 2008, 11:00:56 AM

Quote from: pmg911 on December 30, 2008, 08:19:16 AM

Quote from: Jacstorm on December 29, 2008, 05:27:09 PM

To add to what Choz said:

Took over a program whose talent level and recruiting relationships were an utter joke. Improved the talent every year.. which includes something we haven’t seen in a long time – individual kids (not all and not all at the same pace) are improving. The recruiting relationships are being rebuilt and improving every year. The school’s reputation, which was in the toilet, is unbelievably better.

Tailored his coaching to his talent. When it was nonexistent he played one way. Now, with some talent, we’re running. Often good plays and play out of time-outs and half-time.

Doing a very difficult job the right way. And before we hear Baylor! Ohio State! I’ve said for a long time that even Baylor was nowhere near in as bad shape as we were.

And by the way, News.. the assistant did his time. In your mind he still shouldn’t be hired?? And Malik, Justin, Omari are tokens??

First and most important..  if you think that the coaches in the city thinking Norm is a good guy means the "recruiting relationships" are repaired you are sorely mistaken. Multiple coaches in the CHSAA would never ever send a top player to Norm.

Baylor had a player on their team MURDER another player and the coach trying to blatantly cover up paying players. Do you really think the situation St. John's was worse than that.?

Malik has shown himself to NOT be a Big East player, Justin Burrell, while from the Bronx, is not a city player. He attended school on Long Island and in CT. Omari is a legit recruit but until he actually steps on the courtt for St. John's, he doesn't count.

Lastly, as a selfish fan, I hope Coach Young can get some players here. The reality of the situation is that Norm showed himself desperate to get some connection to recruit city players because he had failed miseribly since the day he started. He didn't hire some guy who was convicted of disorderly condcut or possesion of a little marajiuna. He hired a convicted DRUG DEALER who got caught with 96lbs of pot. Paid his time or not, this guy could not get a job teaching in any school system in America and his record would immediately disqualify him from mulitple professions.

Can you explain how you know about all the opinions of all the CHSAA coaches?

How has Malik shown he isn't a Big East player?

We praise other schools for their hirings of assistant coaches and administrative  assistants for their connections with certain recruits but when our coach does it we call him desperate. This is clearly what they call a double standard.

I used to coach (Freshman & Varsity Assistant) in the league and still talk to a lot of the coaches on a regular basis because I have maintained those friendships through the years and I have known a lot of them through my family and various basketball connections. An example.. 

Please tell me another Big East or another major conference school that has hired a convicted drug dealer as an assistant coach.

Norm Roberts, and I know this for fact, had ample opportunity in the last three years to bring in guys that could help get him players. He said NO NO NO because of his blind loyalty to Glenn Braccia & Chris Casey. This past Spring he turned down another chance to bring in a TOP recruiter and it was only then that he made the move to go get Oz Cross & Coach Kimami Young. He was desperate.

Because Coach Q has worked at various programs and proven that when working with the right head coach can help get players.

What haas Glenn Braccia or Chris Casey every accomplished in the world of college basketbal to have earned the high level assistants job.