Can Mason Jr......?

....bulk up some and learn to play more down in the post? Can he play with his back to the basket? Would he even benefit from doing so? Can he be effective in a roll like this? Perhaps Seton Hall fans gave me the idea but can he be more like his father?

....bulk up some and learn to play more down in the post? Can he play with his back to the basket? Would he even benefit from doing so? Can he be effective in a roll like this? Perhaps Seton Hall fans gave me the idea but can he be more like his father?

DJ is probably the better choice to go down low, because of his strength and superior rebounding.  But if Stix can average over eight boards for SH at 180 lbs soaking wet, than Mason can play the four. 

....bulk up some and learn to play more down in the post? Can he play with his back to the basket? Would he even benefit from doing so? Can he be effective in a roll like this? Perhaps Seton Hall fans gave me the idea but can he be more like his father?

Not gonna happen! If Norm is here Mason will be trying to play the 2 hoisting up off balance shots and dribbling the ball up by his neck!

Quote from: Dave on February 12, 2009, 04:40:32 PM

....bulk up some and learn to play more down in the post? Can he play with his back to the basket? Would he even benefit from doing so? Can he be effective in a roll like this? Perhaps Seton Hall fans gave me the idea but can he be more like his father?

DJ is probably the better choice to go down low, because of his strength and superior rebounding.  But if Stix can average over eight boards for SH at 180 lbs soaking wet, than Mason can play the four.

DJ though is most effective while slashing to the basket and is more of a creator in doing so. Mason Jr. as we know has his limitations handling and creating his own shot. Mason is longer and already likes to fade away so why not play some back to the basket?

That would call for a more bulk.  If St. John's plays a 4-out kind of system with one post player, he could play the 4 for periods.  Plus his rebounding's never been fantastic... but an interesting idea.

I can't see Mase playing back to the basket, he's been facing the basket for 4 years.  Also: I think Mase isn't as bad as he looks in this system, he just needs a coach to tell him to stop spending 5-6 seconds dribbling with no idea what he's going to do

Quote from: Marillac on February 12, 2009, 04:43:56 PM

Quote from: Dave on February 12, 2009, 04:40:32 PM

....bulk up some and learn to play more down in the post? Can he play with his back to the basket? Would he even benefit from doing so? Can he be effective in a roll like this? Perhaps Seton Hall fans gave me the idea but can he be more like his father?

DJ is probably the better choice to go down low, because of his strength and superior rebounding.  But if Stix can average over eight boards for SH at 180 lbs soaking wet, than Mason can play the four.

DJ though is most effective while slashing to the basket and is more of a creator in doing so. Mason Jr. as we know has his limitations handling and creating his own shot. Mason is longer and already likes to fade away so why not play some back to the basket?

What position a player is playing is defined almost entirely by who he guards.  Basically, DJ is free to do whatever the coach wants him to do offensively. 

I look back to Dudley from BC as a model for DJ.  He was essentialy a 3 1/2 his whole career and played a lot of four after Smith left.  He was a terrific rebounder like DJ, but really opened up his offensive game later in his career, hitting three's and slashing in addition to his post game. 

A good coach can take more advantage of DJ or Mase offensively being covered by a four than they will give up defensively covering the same four. 

IMO DJ is both strong enough and good enough on the boards to play there now.  He is tough enough to boxout bigger PF's and he is quick enough and faster off his feet than most Big East fours. 

Quote from: Dave on February 12, 2009, 04:49:01 PM

Quote from: Marillac on February 12, 2009, 04:43:56 PM

Quote from: Dave on February 12, 2009, 04:40:32 PM

....bulk up some and learn to play more down in the post? Can he play with his back to the basket? Would he even benefit from doing so? Can he be effective in a roll like this? Perhaps Seton Hall fans gave me the idea but can he be more like his father?

DJ is probably the better choice to go down low, because of his strength and superior rebounding.  But if Stix can average over eight boards for SH at 180 lbs soaking wet, than Mason can play the four.

DJ though is most effective while slashing to the basket and is more of a creator in doing so. Mason Jr. as we know has his limitations handling and creating his own shot. Mason is longer and already likes to fade away so why not play some back to the basket?

What position a player is playing is defined almost entirely by who he guards.  Basically, DJ is free to do whatever the coach wants him to do offensively. 

I look back to Dudley from BC as a model for DJ.  He was essentialy a 3 1/2 his whole career and played a lot of four after Smith left.  He was a terrific rebounder like DJ, but really opened up his offensive game later in his career, hitting three's and slashing in addition to his post game. 

A good coach can take more advantage of DJ or Mase offensively being covered by a four than they will give up defensively covering the same four. 

IMO DJ is both strong enough and good enough on the boards to play there now.  He is tough enough to boxout bigger PF's and he is quick enough and faster off his feet than most Big East fours.

i absolutly agree with you marralic ive always believed in playing your best five no matter what position they are with the exception of the point, i think it is better to have teams adjust to you then to adjust to them,, plus if your big guys arent gonna score or rebound anyway then why not put small guys in who can at least score.

DJ = great rebounding SF
DJ = ______ rebounding PF

DJ = great rebounding SF
DJ = ______ rebounding PF

Above average.  Think of the foul trouble DJ could get opposing fours in when he faces up 10 feet from the basket. 

It definitely could work for short stints...but its a gimmick that won't last long.  It may cause a mismatch but the mismatch goes both ways. 

I don't see Mason doing well at exploiting it either.

It definitely could work for short stints...but its a gimmick that won't last long.  It may cause a mismatch but the mismatch goes both ways. 

I don't see Mason doing well at exploiting it either.

How is it a gimmick?  DJ is 6-6 and very long and strong.  He is averaging seven boards a game from the small forward/point forward position this year. 

Randy Foye played SF at 6'4 for Nova and they almost won a national championship (horrible call against UNC cost them).  Stix is playing PF for the Hall and he is 180 after a big meal in clothes. 

Do you think DJ is going to get thrown around down low?  He's a beast.  He knocked Samuels' teeth out.  He grew up banging with Dejaun Blair. 

He'd be an absolute menace on the offensive boards for lumbering PF's that he would go around or over. 

DJ and Mason are both listed at 210lbs coming into this season. If I'm Mason I'd be in the weight room everyday and he could bump up to 220-225 by next season.

Quote from: jumpinjohnny on February 12, 2009, 10:27:22 PM

It definitely could work for short stints...but its a gimmick that won't last long.  It may cause a mismatch but the mismatch goes both ways. 

I don't see Mason doing well at exploiting it either.

How is it a gimmick?  DJ is 6-6 and very long and strong.  He is averaging seven boards a game from the small forward/point forward position this year. 

Randy Foye played SF at 6'4 for Nova and they almost won a national championship (horrible call against UNC cost them).  Stix is playing PF for the Hall and he is 180 after a big meal in clothes. 

Do you think DJ is going to get thrown around down low?  He's a beast.  He knocked Samuels' teeth out.  He grew up banging with Dejaun Blair. 

He'd be an absolute menace on the offensive boards for lumbering PF's that he would go around or over.

Seton Hall hasn't exactly been a powerhouse using that philosophy.  They do it because they only have one big that can walk and chew gum at the same time.

DJ is a tough kid but he would be overpowered down low.  Even JB gets overpowered at times. 

Nova had 3 NBA guards...I think that was the secret to success more than the 4 guard offense.  If Nova even had a decent PF they would've made the final four one of those years.

I would love to see

Lance
Omari
Paris
Mason
Evans

On the court at the same time.

No offense yo. But Mase aint ever show improvement in any of his deficiences.  and that over four year.

What make you think he got skills to change his whole game?

I would love to see

Lance
Omari
Paris
Mason
Evans

On the court at the same time.

No point guard and one average rebounder...    come on..

If I was coaching SJU, and I probably should be, here is what my lineup would look like next year:
C Burrell
F Kennedy
F Lawrence
G Horne
G Boothe

Bench
Evans, Mase, Hardy, Roberts
Play 9 and spread the floor like Nova did a few years ago. I know we don't have the same kind of shooters, but at least this way we would be more enjoyable to watch! 

Quote from: Marillac on February 13, 2009, 01:22:52 AM

Quote from: jumpinjohnny on February 12, 2009, 10:27:22 PM

It definitely could work for short stints...but its a gimmick that won't last long.  It may cause a mismatch but the mismatch goes both ways. 

I don't see Mason doing well at exploiting it either.

How is it a gimmick?  DJ is 6-6 and very long and strong.  He is averaging seven boards a game from the small forward/point forward position this year. 

Randy Foye played SF at 6'4 for Nova and they almost won a national championship (horrible call against UNC cost them).  Stix is playing PF for the Hall and he is 180 after a big meal in clothes. 

Do you think DJ is going to get thrown around down low?  He's a beast.  He knocked Samuels' teeth out.  He grew up banging with Dejaun Blair. 

He'd be an absolute menace on the offensive boards for lumbering PF's that he would go around or over.

Seton Hall hasn't exactly been a powerhouse using that philosophy.  They do it because they only have one big that can walk and chew gum at the same time.

DJ is a tough kid but he would be overpowered down low.  Even JB gets overpowered at times. 

Nova had 3 NBA guards...I think that was the secret to success more than the 4 guard offense.  If Nova even had a decent PF they would've made the final four one of those years.

Three NBA guards?  Only Foye made the NBA.  That is one.

Once again, Stix is averaging almost nine boards and he is 6'5, 30 lbs less than Kennedy, and nowhere near as strong.  He makes opposing four's pay for his midrange game and draws them away from the basket to create space for the guards to get in the lane and for Garcia. 

SH is not a powerhouse, but that has nothing to do with Stix playing the four.  If you watched their games and knew anything about basketball you would know that he is doing a flatout awesome job at the four right now--especially lately.  SH won FIVE STRAIGHT Big East games and if Garcia did't miss those those two games earlier in the year they would be a 16-7 and on the cusp of an NCAA berth. 

We should be so lucky next year. 

you forgot about kyle lowry, and allan ray also got "snubbed" (or so people thought) but played a year with the celtics before heading over to europe

you forgot about kyle lowry, and allan ray also got "snubbed" (or so people thought) but played a year with the celtics before heading over to europe

I did forget Lowrey, you are correct.  I apologize JumpinJohnny.  They had two NBA guards--only one actualy played guard for them--and a good Euro-bound SG. 

However, that is a team that was a bad call away from a Final Four.  We are just talking about making a run at the  tournament here. 

To add, one of the worst things about watching a Norm Roberts coached team is the slow reaction of the big men to fill the lane and help on defense. 

Contrast that with a Howland coached team.  They showed a highlight last night of UCLA-ND and Harangody came behind an excellent double-baseline screen to go ballside low block.  Aboya, the UCLA defender, didn't follow Harangody, rather, beat him to the ballside low block by running in front of the screen and deflected the entry pass. 

Ben Howland's defenders consistently beat or at least try to beat players to spots to force either a charge, pass, or contested shot.  Norm's bigs time and time again fail to move the requisite two to three feet to get set when every person in the arena knows the guard is going to get in the lane after he gets by one of our guards because we extend our defense too far. 

That can either be talent (foot speed) or coaching or a combination.   But since Norm can't coach, why not at least put a guy like DJ who is athletic, smart, and tough enough to make that move on his own. 

How much better off would we be as a team if we had a guy down low that would plug those open lanes?

I also seriously doubt, of all the players on our team, that DJ is going to be backed down to the basket over and over again.  He's too tough. The kid's best friend is Dejaun Blair.  They probably played a thousand one on one games with Blair jusing that move every time.