Fire the assistants

The whole staff aint earnin.

Need to burn this house down and start buildin a new one.

Quote from: Dave on March 02, 2009, 02:18:23 PM

Coach Q- DJ Kennedy, Dele Coker, Rob Thomas

Coach Casey- Sean Evans(I'm not sure on this one he might have been recruited by Q)

Coach Braica- Justin Burrell, Paris Horne

Good stuff, thanks Dave. Looks like I came to the right place for answers

Also looks like you have to stop ragging on Q.

Quote from: Tha Kid on March 02, 2009, 01:19:12 PM

Quote from: TRabinowitz on March 02, 2009, 12:52:22 PM

WHY would a coach, whose stock is quite possibly the highest in the metro-area (Tim Cluess) take an assistant coaching job (I'm not even sure the pay would be much higher) for a possible lame-duck coach that could very well be fired within the next few years?

To me, it wouldn't make much sense, but you never know.

Why would you leave D2 CW Post for an assistant position in the Big East for a coach that may be fired?  Well 1) if the tema turns around when you get there, you are looked for a serious D1 job elsewhere, 2) if the administration likes you and gets rid of the head coach,  maybe they give you a shot at the job - in the Big east.

Why would it make sense to stay at D2 is the better question?

Job security yo.

The man has a family and a challengin one at that. He need the bennies and the check.

Aint gonna trade a secure job fo sometin that aint gonna last long.

Sides, he has always been the one who call the shot. Aint gonna be no subordinate to a coach who know less than he do.

Choz, do you not think if he came to St. John's under Norm and was let go, he could not get a similar D2 head coaching job back again?  Also - and this I don't know - do D2 head coaches really make more $ than D1 assistants in the Big East?

Perhaps as an assistant they'd allow him to miss a game or two on the road if family problems demanded him to stay - tougher to do that as the head coach.

I agree with you about him always being the leading man though - not going to fly if Norm doesn't listen to his advice and the team is losing.

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 02, 2009, 02:36:33 PM

Quote from: Dave on March 02, 2009, 02:18:23 PM

Coach Q- DJ Kennedy, Dele Coker, Rob Thomas

Coach Casey- Sean Evans(I'm not sure on this one he might have been recruited by Q)

Coach Braica- Justin Burrell, Paris Horne

Good stuff, thanks Dave. Looks like I came to the right place for answers

Also looks like you have to stop ragging on Q.

Yup, this is why I asked. But I wasnt really ragging on him, much worse has been said, wouldnt you agree? Anyways, I do wish he would live up to his rep and grab some top recruits. From the 2 we have coming in, it looks like Q and staff are doing a better job.

How do we have any idea that the assistants have done anything wrong?
What would firing them do?

Fire Roberts. The rest will pack it up with him.

Baldi just upset cause he remember Q lightin up Iona back in the day.

Quote from: TRabinowitz on March 02, 2009, 12:52:22 PM

WHY would a coach, whose stock is quite possibly the highest in the metro-area (Tim Cluess) take an assistant coaching job (I'm not even sure the pay would be much higher) for a possible lame-duck coach that could very well be fired within the next few years?

To me, it wouldn't make much sense, but you never know.

How do you think Buzz Williams became coach at Marquette?

Williams' arrival at Marquette was unique because he left UNO as a head coach to become the associate head coach under Crean.

This would be a slightly different scenario due to
1) Cluess would be moving up from D-II to D-I, as opposed to Williams, who chose to move up the food chain by taking a lesser position at a more high profile D-I job

2) Crean wasn't a proverbial lame duck (as some view Roberts), instead he was openly pursued by other high profile programs

Two other very longshot possibilities but still worthy of a call:
You wonder if Pete Gillen, a Brooklyn native with plenty of experience at Catholic Universities (Notre Dame, Fairfield, Providence, Xavier) and contacts, would be interested in being an associate head coach here. Realistically, Steve Lappas, who still lives in the area, might be more willing to give it a shot. Both are far more accomplished than Roberts, but might be bored with television. Danny Nee was willing to work under Freddie Hill.

Frankly, I wish Harrington would just begin anew.

Quote from: Choz4Life on March 02, 2009, 02:36:10 PM

Quote from: Tha Kid on March 02, 2009, 01:19:12 PM

Quote from: TRabinowitz on March 02, 2009, 12:52:22 PM

WHY would a coach, whose stock is quite possibly the highest in the metro-area (Tim Cluess) take an assistant coaching job (I'm not even sure the pay would be much higher) for a possible lame-duck coach that could very well be fired within the next few years?

To me, it wouldn't make much sense, but you never know.

Why would you leave D2 CW Post for an assistant position in the Big East for a coach that may be fired?  Well 1) if the tema turns around when you get there, you are looked for a serious D1 job elsewhere, 2) if the administration likes you and gets rid of the head coach,  maybe they give you a shot at the job - in the Big east.

Why would it make sense to stay at D2 is the better question?

Job security yo.

The man has a family and a challengin one at that. He need the bennies and the check.

Aint gonna trade a secure job fo sometin that aint gonna last long.

Sides, he has always been the one who call the shot. Aint gonna be no subordinate to a coach who know less than he do.

Choz, do you not think if he came to St. John's under Norm and was let go, he could not get a similar D2 head coaching job back again?  Also - and this I don't know - do D2 head coaches really make more $ than D1 assistants in the Big East?

Perhaps as an assistant they'd allow him to miss a game or two on the road if family problems demanded him to stay - tougher to do that as the head coach.

I agree with you about him always being the leading man though - not going to fly if Norm doesn't listen to his advice and the team is losing.

Any college coachin job is hard to come by. It's even harder if you is limitin y'self geographically: NYC, LI, etc.

So you hold on to what you got. Cause even if you got a good resume, you may need to sit out one or two year fore a spot come open.

Lotta brothers is willin to jump at the chance. Just dont think TC is one of them.

I do believe Tim Welsh was once considered a solid offensive mind; he might be one of those "better assistant than head coach" types. 

Though really, I think he just needed more help recruiting (and a little more defense).  That's just me.  Pete Gillen would be interesting, but he's another guy with enough experience that he would be a threat to take the HC job.  And do you want Pete Gillen as HC? 

And I agree that if Cluess is happy where he is and has always called the shots, it might not be all that interesting for him to step into an uncertain situation.  He can just wait for one of the D-I jobs on the Island or Brooklyn to open up if he wants D-I.  And if he's making enough money and building a D-II legacy... why leave?

Quote from: TRabinowitz on March 02, 2009, 12:52:22 PM

WHY would a coach, whose stock is quite possibly the highest in the metro-area (Tim Cluess) take an assistant coaching job (I'm not even sure the pay would be much higher) for a possible lame-duck coach that could very well be fired within the next few years?

To me, it wouldn't make much sense, but you never know.

It makes a lot of sense. He gets an assistant gig at school in a major conference. If things go well he shares in the responsibility and that opens plenty of doors for him as another resume builder. Or if the team does bad and Norm gets canned then Cluess has his foot in the door already.

good point...and if there is success with this, and he moves on somewhere as a head coach, maybe the things he implements in his time at sju leaves norm with the know how to do it by himself in the future

Tim Cluess aint gonna turn this thing around.

cluess isn't just a division two coach...he's a division two coach whose team just finished the season undefeated and number two in the country. 

my gut is norm is the kind of guy who won't listen to advice...so cluess would be wasted here.

as far as assistants...the two aau guys have brought in presumably some top talent in their first try and are in the running for the number one player in the country.  the others are mediocrities and their recruiting skills are reflected in our record...(forgetting about norm's x and o ineptitude here).

How do we have any idea that the assistants have done anything wrong?
What would firing them do?

Fire Roberts. The rest will pack it up with him.

If things are working and the head coach isn't leaving then rearranging the cabinet might help. Obviously Coach Roberts has some flaws and the assistants are supposed to support and strengthen the head coach. X and O guy would be exactly what we need.

Cluess is the first guy that comes to mind.

Welsch didn't come to mind until Pico mentioned him but he would be a pretty nice candidate and I'm sure that would pay more than SNY analyst gig.

Quote from: Poison on March 02, 2009, 02:49:57 PM

How do we have any idea that the assistants have done anything wrong?
What would firing them do?

Fire Roberts. The rest will pack it up with him.

If things are working and the head coach isn't leaving then rearranging the cabinet might help. Obviously Coach Roberts has some flaws and the assistants are supposed to support and strengthen the head coach. X and O guy would be exactly what we need.

Cluess is the first guy that comes to mind.

Welsch didn't come to mind until Pico mentioned him but he would be a pretty nice candidate and I'm sure that would pay more than SNY analyst gig.

The biggest problem with Norm Roberts is his judgement.

This isn't going to happen. He's not getting rid of anyone. It would push him closer to the door to let the University know that he's made even more poor choices than they are aware of.

Quote from: Dave on March 02, 2009, 04:04:56 PM

Quote from: Poison on March 02, 2009, 02:49:57 PM

How do we have any idea that the assistants have done anything wrong?
What would firing them do?

Fire Roberts. The rest will pack it up with him.

If things are working and the head coach isn't leaving then rearranging the cabinet might help. Obviously Coach Roberts has some flaws and the assistants are supposed to support and strengthen the head coach. X and O guy would be exactly what we need.

Cluess is the first guy that comes to mind.

Welsch didn't come to mind until Pico mentioned him but he would be a pretty nice candidate and I'm sure that would pay more than SNY analyst gig.

The biggest problem with Norm Roberts is his judgement.

This isn't going to happen. He's not getting rid of anyone. It would push him closer to the door to let the University know that he's made even more poor choices than they are aware of.

Maybe someone leaves on their own? Q to Fordham?

Quote from: Dave on March 02, 2009, 04:04:56 PM

Quote from: Poison on March 02, 2009, 02:49:57 PM

How do we have any idea that the assistants have done anything wrong?
What would firing them do?

Fire Roberts. The rest will pack it up with him.

If things are working and the head coach isn't leaving then rearranging the cabinet might help. Obviously Coach Roberts has some flaws and the assistants are supposed to support and strengthen the head coach. X and O guy would be exactly what we need.

Cluess is the first guy that comes to mind.

Welsch didn't come to mind until Pico mentioned him but he would be a pretty nice candidate and I'm sure that would pay more than SNY analyst gig.

The biggest problem with Norm Roberts is his judgement.

This isn't going to happen. He's not getting rid of anyone. It would push him closer to the door to let the University know that he's made even more poor choices than they are aware of.

I don't think so at all. I think it speaks volumes that he is trying to improve the program and isn't tolerated mediocrity.

Quote from: Poison on March 02, 2009, 09:30:40 PM

Quote from: Dave on March 02, 2009, 04:04:56 PM

Quote from: Poison on March 02, 2009, 02:49:57 PM

How do we have any idea that the assistants have done anything wrong?
What would firing them do?

Fire Roberts. The rest will pack it up with him.

If things are working and the head coach isn't leaving then rearranging the cabinet might help. Obviously Coach Roberts has some flaws and the assistants are supposed to support and strengthen the head coach. X and O guy would be exactly what we need.

Cluess is the first guy that comes to mind.

Welsch didn't come to mind until Pico mentioned him but he would be a pretty nice candidate and I'm sure that would pay more than SNY analyst gig.

The biggest problem with Norm Roberts is his judgement.

This isn't going to happen. He's not getting rid of anyone. It would push him closer to the door to let the University know that he's made even more poor choices than they are aware of.

I don't think so at all. I think it speaks volumes that he is trying to improve the program and isn't tolerated mediocrity.

Whether we admit it or not, we missed A Patterson, C Jackson and Q Calhoun. Maybe they were mediocre when they were here, but they've improved, and we have not.

I'm not sure we could beat the team that Roberts started with.

Choz has it right: job security.  He's got two young boys and he wants to stay in the area.  His stock is high enough where he's going to get to call his shots job-wise and he is really not far off from a head coaching job on the D1 level. 

I don't know how being an assistant coach under Norm Roberts would improve his resume.

Choz has it right: job security.  He's got two young boys and he wants to stay in the area.  His stock is high enough where he's going to get to call his shots job-wise and he is really not far off from a head coaching job on the D1 level. 

I don't know how being an assistant coach under Norm Roberts would improve his resume.

Ast Coach at St. John's University a Big East Conference School

or

Head Coach at D2 CW Post a school outside of long island/ny no one knows about.

It's great he's doing well there and he might get a sniff from a small d-1 team to get a head coaching gig at the likes of a NEC school but coaching at the d-2 to D-1 level things change and schools might want to see experience at D-1 level before hiring him.

Norm had Chuck Martin under him who is now head coach of Marist.

agree...you can go from small time D1 coach to big time D1 coach but not big time D2 coach to big time D1 coach...it would be a good move for him to come here as an assistant, bc if he succeeds, great, he can move on to bigger and better things...if he fails, he can always go back to D2