Lance, Norm, and Poor St Johns fans..

*i ment he WASNT given a scholarship to come in 08-09 and be an impact player...hes ment as a long term project at the 5 spot.

You have good points bballfan you speak the truth but you have to lay some blame on Norm, we still look confused on  defensive & offensive and we are at the end of the season.That falls square on the shoulders of norm and his staff we should be running our sets like clock work right now.

ok so is the most positive solution to fire norm? whos going to replace him then? I've experienced first hand how well the players respond to norm and how much they like him...do all the people calling for norm's replacement realize what a coaching change does to a team...if St Johns was to change coaches now at this fragile stage of the team...they would probably lose next years recruits, a group of the current players would transfer, and st johns would ultimately be worse off then it was at any year with Norm...

and thanks for giving me my props KAHNIGHT lol

I have never called for Norms head, I have always gave him passes but I just don't see an end to this madness.He needs to be removed, he has brought us back to respectability now we need someone to get us to the next level. If we brought in Rod Strickland from the Memphis Tigers & kept Omari's package deal coaches on the staff no one would transfer & incoming freshman would stay.

thats just your opinion but no one really knows how the players are going to react except for the players

i'd only fire norm if STJ is committed to getting a big name coach.  if we are going to fire norm for pecora it's a lateral move. 

You have good points bballfan you speak the truth but you have to lay some blame on Norm, we still look confused on  defensive & offensive and we are at the end of the season.That falls square on the shoulders of norm and his staff we should be running our sets like clock work right now.

that would be the logical thing to happen...that the same group of freshmen would know how to execute on offense after a year of playing together, but no

Thing is, if you can keep part of the staff (responsible for recruiting) and you bring in a superior x and o's guy, a guy who is known to be able to teach a system and get a high level of winning out of the team... that person can build on what's already been made.  Yes, for sure, a little will be lost - some players, some progress.

But does anyone here think that our current coach is going to teach any kind of crisp, cohesive offense?  Mid-majors run sets far better than St. John's does, and it seems like most coaches in the league (and the ACC) find faults to exploit easily.  This is a problem.

And it loses fans every year.  It can't help but lose AAU guys and recruits every year.  People talk, and people read message boards, and people read the paper, and people watch the games.  Seeing a team get worked over without the "it's our first/ second year" excuse is not a marketing tool, especially when the players have been together nearly two calendar years.

Norm is not the only guy on the planet who can make good solid hardworking connects with grassroots ball.  And he's certainly not the guy who is going to bring a good 3-4 years of success in the future, because his current class (soon to swell to 9, maybe even 10 if someone like Jarrid Famous comes) will leave in 2 years, leaving the team in a worse situation.

This is not simple frustration talking.  This is thinking through scenarios, looking at stats and what teams do when they bring back a large number of their minutes (see Basketball Prospectus for that), thinking about the running problems St. John's has had on the court and how nothing seems to change them.

I would wager that there are better coaches in the metropolitan area who can do this job, and probably cleanly (though I won't say who, because I'm not an insider, don't know who plays by the rules or does not).

Bball_fan...any idea why Norm hasn't gotten a verbal from a PG for next year?  Being that we only have one PG on the roster...can Hardy play the PG in the Big East?

yes, 1957 is different than 2009...but scandal is scandal.  the school won a national championship two years after a point shaving scandal.  i could point out that cleveland state is going to the dance and they won four games four years ago.  other teams turn it around.  we're not much different than we were five years ago.

norm can't coach.  marquette's coach pointed out after the game how norm's offense is extremely predictable.  that's why players who could shoot in high school can't shoot at st john's. every coach in the country knows how to defend them.

how would the players react to a new coach coming in?  the ones who don't like it can pack their bags.  we've seen enough of ten point halves (remember duke?)

i'd only fire norm if STJ is committed to getting a big name coach.  if we are going to fire norm for pecora it's a lateral move.

Glad to see you back!

How's the Pirate thing going these days??? You may want to change your avatar until you make your final choice!

Bottom line is the main reason Norm has to go is because he cant coach. I'm not even saying hes a bad coach, I'm saying he cant coach.

The few players who have gotten better, have gotten better due to the fact that they're athletic and have gotten experience.

How can you watch a game coached by Norm and have faith that hell turn things around.

Ive waited 5 years, and just like You do with freshmen in hoping the more experience they get the better players theyll become, I've hoped the same thing for Norm. However, after 5 years his coaching has gotten even worse, if thats possible.

People make it sound like all the "negative" fans have something against Norm. They just want to at least see quality basketball with the players having a clue in what they are doing on the court. Sadly that is far from the case.

If they got Lance for a year or two, and win a few more games because Lance is that good, and not because Norm is getting better as a coach, then really what good does that do for the program?

Maybe I'm wrong and I was living in a dream for the past 10 years but when did Omari and lance hate each other? Every time we hang out at a ball game lance comes up to us and chills with us. Or we go to lance sr. And joke around with him. Where does the hatred come from.

Quote from: peter on March 11, 2009, 05:11:45 PM

Thanks, Monasch, for stopping by!  Good to see you!

If he thinks Henriquez is a good player, the tanning booth must've gotten to his brain.

As for the "situation," don't blame the remaining fans.

How many times have you seen Jordan play?

ok so is the most positive solution to fire norm? whos going to replace him then? I've experienced first hand how well the players respond to norm and how much they like him...do all the people calling for norm's replacement realize what a coaching change does to a team...if St Johns was to change coaches now at this fragile stage of the team...they would probably lose next years recruits, a group of the current players would transfer, and st johns would ultimately be worse off then it was at any year with Norm...

The players response to Norm might be good in practice or in the halls of the school or in the weight but there reszponse to him once they step on the court is a joke. I don't care if the players like him, ultimately when the practice whistle blows and he rolls the balls out, its not a popularity contest.

I have been reading your posts in this thread, you are either close to Norm Roberts or a staff memeber in some fashion or you really don't watch the games that closely.

Norm Roberts is very nice man but is in well over his head as a head coach in the Big East.

Forget about X&O's...    his biggest attribute upon arrival here was his ability as a recruiter and on that front he has been HORRENDOUS,absolutely HORRENDOUS. Its took him 4 years to finally realize he needed local halp and he hired two guys who are connected. His arrogance, or better yet, ignorance, prevented him from doing this from day one.

He has represented the University well and righted a ship that was headed in a bad direction but he has proven completely incapable of getting his players to take that big step foward.

The biggest thing that kills me about this guy though is his complete lack of personal responsibility. It's never his failings and there is always an excuse. Yesterday is a perfect example, his team came out unprepared for Marquette, got embarrassed yet again, and after the game he says the kids were tired and we missed a few shots (they made only 3 in the entire 1st half). How about deflecting some of the heat off his players and onto himself just one time. this is his program and everything that happens in it and to it is ultimately his responsilbilty. He will not take the personal responsibilty because he knows he is on the hot seat and acknowledging any short comings might hurt him down the road.

If the school no longer wishes to be an after thought and source of jokes in the basketball community they need to make a change as soon as spooisble.

Enough is enough. . St. Jonh's basketball has become a complete joke under this guy.

Quote from: bball_fan on March 11, 2009, 07:09:28 PM

ok so is the most positive solution to fire norm? whos going to replace him then? I've experienced first hand how well the players respond to norm and how much they like him...do all the people calling for norm's replacement realize what a coaching change does to a team...if St Johns was to change coaches now at this fragile stage of the team...they would probably lose next years recruits, a group of the current players would transfer, and st johns would ultimately be worse off then it was at any year with Norm...

The players response to Norm might be good in practice or in the halls of the school or in the weight but there reszponse to him once they step on the court is a joke. I don't care if the players like him, ultimately when the practice whistle blows and he rolls the balls out, its not a popularity contest.

I have been reading your posts in this thread, you are either close to Norm Roberts or a staff memeber in some fashion or you really don't watch the games that closely.

Norm Roberts is very nice man but is in well over his head as a head coach in the Big East.

Forget about X&O's...    his biggest attribute upon arrival here was his ability as a recruiter and on that front he has been HORRENDOUS,absolutely HORRENDOUS. Its took him 4 years to finally realize he needed local halp and he hired two guys who are connected. His arrogance, or better yet, ignorance, prevented him from doing this from day one.

He has represented the University well and righted a ship that was headed in a bad direction but he has proven completely incapable of getting his players to take that big step foward.

The biggest thing that kills me about this guy though is his complete lack of personal responsibility. It's never his failings and there is always an excuse. Yesterday is a perfect example, his team came out unprepared for Marquette, got embarrassed yet again, and after the game he says the kids were tired and we missed a few shots (they made only 3 in the entire 1st half). How about deflecting some of the heat off his players and onto himself just one time. this is his program and everything that happens in it and to it is ultimately his responsilbilty. He will not take the personal responsibilty because he knows he is on the hot seat and acknowledging any short comings might hurt him down the road.

If the school no longer wishes to be an after thought and source of jokes in the basketball community they need to make a change as soon as spooisble.

Enough is enough. . St. Jonh's basketball has become a complete joke under this guy.

I'll say over 95% of the posters on this board, Redmen.com and the Big East board agrees with your latter statement, PMG.

Not to mention, Stephen A. Smith, Mike Francesca, Mike Vaccaro and now, (according, to a poster on Redmen.com) Brandon Tierney are on the 95 percentile-board. 

lol wow i guess its good to see all this response to my post...i guess ill respond one by one..

peter..how would you fire norm but keep other coaches responsible for recruiting? when i coaching change takes place the new head coach brings in all of his own personel..Norms main recruiting guy, coach Fred Quaterbalm (i probably spelled his name wrong), has already gotten multiple head coaching offers and has chosen to stay with norm at st johns out of loyalty. so your scenerio is most likely not possibe.

newsman i have no idea what your not about. THERE IS NO POSSIBLE WAY TO COMPARE 1957 TO 2009. ITS IMPOSSIBLE. As for Cleveland St, they going to the tourny because they won theyre conference which a weak conference, no way to compare it to the big east. And when you tell players to "pack their bags." Do you really think thats going to help improve your program? You'll be taking two steps backwards.

Jumpinjohny..Norm has gotten a verbal from a PG...his name is malik stith (spelled his last name wrong)...He's a PG currently at Bridgeton Academy in Maine. Bridgeton plays in NEPSAC class A, which is arguably THE most competive league in highschool basketball. Bridgeton just won the championship in their league about a week or two ago...Once again though its just a verbal commitment, Malik hasnt signed anything yet.

TRabinowitz i've seen Jordan play multiple times in the past 2 years...especially at his prep school, the Winchendon School.

Kob24..Lance and Omari do not like each other...Everytime i've talked to Omari (including last week) about Lance hes made it clear to me that him and Lance "do not gel....at all." And one time Lance told me, "F**K Omari." You take what you want from that.

PMG911...I dont know how you can say Norm has done a "horrendous" job recuiting. He's done an excellent job. you have to keep in mind St Johns had a 2 year ban on any post season play. What type of player wants to come play at school like that. Aside from that he got Mason Jr. Burrell( Who was ranked as the best post-grad in America in his class by scout.com) he got Horne and Kennedy who averaged in the double digits in the Big East this season. I dont care what anyone says, if you can average double digit points in the Big East, that means you can ball. Next year hes gotten Omari Lawrence, who might not be an immidiate "savior" to the program but he will be a strong contributor. Same with Dwight Hardy who like i mentioned earlier, he single handly took the PSAL championship at the garden. and if malik(whos already given his verbal) comes through theres even more depth at the guard play behind boothe(who was an other solid commitment Norm secured). Hes gotten VERY good players for the situation he was in...and hes gotten even better players for next season.

People watch games and just because St Johns doesnt win that means Norm is "running a weak offense." Dont get me wrong, part of the blame needs to be placed on Norm, a BIG part. But people tend to forget that we have the youngest team in the big east. When st johns goes up against big east rivals they are outplayed and outmatched at almost every position. Teams like Uconn, Pitt, etc. all have more depth at every position, thats a major part of why we lose games...once again we will win more games next year with a healthy mason, more experienced players, and the added depth we have coming in next year.

ok so is the most positive solution to fire norm? whos going to replace him then? I've experienced first hand how well the players respond to norm and how much they like him...do all the people calling for norm's replacement realize what a coaching change does to a team...if St Johns was to change coaches now at this fragile stage of the team...they would probably lose next years recruits, a group of the current players would transfer, and st johns would ultimately be worse off then it was at any year with Norm...

and thanks for giving me my props KAHNIGHT lol

How would they lose next year's recruits if Hardy and Lawrence signed LOIs?
Would SJU release them from their LOIs? Hell no. As well they shouldn't.

There is one potential NBA player on this team. Justin Burrell, and he was crying after the game. It certainly sounds like he'd respond to Norm returning by not returning.

And seriously, who are we losing if Norm gets fired? You think the players are really dumb enough to leave the school because Roberts, one of the nation's worst coaches gets fired for going 7-13 in the Big East?

I didn't see Lavor Postell transfer after his second season at SJU, and his coach won 24 games.

Unless u are family and in our circle I don't think Omari would bad mouth anybody to someone he doesn't trust. And the same goes for lance he is a coney island kid he just doesn't speak to anyone. And Omari has never told me he hated lance

Poison...there are clauses in the LOIs that can release players if there is a coaching change...thats why all the Indiana recruits left after Sampson got fired, including Devin Ebanks who went to WV...If Norm were to get fired a lot of players would transfer

Kob24...im just posting what i heard from those two...thats all