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In all honesty...

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Tha Kid

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Re: In all honesty...
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2009, 07:25:19 AM »
Quote from: bball_fan on May 15, 2009, 05:08:03 PM

Not sure how hardy is on defense but its safe to say this man can "score"...averaging 39 his senior year at JFK.  :o Obviously sju can use all the "scorers" it can get. Omari also a pretty good scorer and defender at his position.  :)

...

Factor in all these with our "top" scorer in "Mase" coming back and the rest of our starters.

Also, definitly "watch out" :o for Rob Thomas next season. We all saw "flashes" of his "potential" towards the end of last season. Watch him come in and be a major factor for st johns. I have personally "witnessed" him in practice after the season ended and he continues to impress me. Hopefully his "hard work in practice" will transfer over to games next season.   ;D :) :-*




All I've done to the above post is add a few quotations and smilies, no words.  If that is not OldRed trying to disguise himself, then I'll change my icon to a picture of Marco Baldi's mug.
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Tha Kid

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BBall Fan: "Leave Norm Alone"
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2009, 07:30:38 AM »
Quote from: bball_fan
For the sake of the thread, lets put aside any animosty towards Norm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc&feature=PlayList&p=A2C58CDFF32FA25C&index=0&playnext=1#
« Last Edit: May 16, 2009, 07:31:25 AM by Tha Kid »
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Poison

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Re: BBall Fan: "Leave Norm Alone"
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2009, 09:15:29 AM »
is that a woman?
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peter

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Re: In all honesty...
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2009, 11:40:23 AM »
Yeah, I don't know if bball fan is Old Red outrageous.  Old Red is posting on Redmen and mostly in his usual style - misspellings, compilations of player links, exaggerated claims of how good Mase is going to be.  All of which is welcome here, too, as long as folks are civil.

Marillac - you can talk about WWII and talk about military strategy vs the philosophy of evil and propaganda.  We watch the players on the court, not Norm.

But in short - don't know that bball fan is Old Red, and he brings up a point we can talk about.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2009, 11:46:00 AM by peter »
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TONYD3

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Re: In all honesty...
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2009, 12:04:56 PM »
I say we win 20 + and get a 7 seed. I really believe that. Last years team wasn't that bad. Add mase and Omari that is a huge upgrade over Tomas and Ty. We also add a juco shooter and ANOTHER WING player. I am sure we will play a weak schedule. We will win 20 and go to the dance. I gurantee it.

ps I also thought we would beat Syracuse last year. I also thougtht we would beat Maryaland in the holiday tournament.
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sjd8886

Re: In all honesty...
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2009, 12:22:09 PM »
you know, i couldnt even read past your first sentence...what the $%#& are you talking about?????...progress is being made with this recruiting class????...im sorry but i cant read past that sentence, i just cant...not after 4 other recruiting classes just like this resulted in what we have now...maybe you actually wrote something intelligent farther along in your post but i just cant read it...in fact, im just going to stop reading anything you write from now on
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peter

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Re: In all honesty...
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2009, 12:32:38 PM »
Quote from: TONYD3 on May 16, 2009, 12:04:56 PM
I say we win 20 + and get a 7 seed. I really believe that. Last years team wasn't that bad. Add mase and Omari that is a huge upgrade over Tomas and Ty. We also add a juco shooter and ANOTHER WING player. I am sure we will play a weak schedule. We will win 20 and go to the dance. I gurantee it.

ps I also thought we would beat Syracuse last year. I also thougtht we would beat Maryaland in the holiday tournament.
Uh oh!  A GUARANTEE.  Someone start negotiating bets!
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Poison

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Re: In all honesty...
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2009, 01:17:10 PM »
Brownlee seem like a DJ Kennedy type.
Just a baller. Plays wherever. These multiple position guys give a coach options. Roberts needs more versatile guys. I'm pretty happy with this signing because of that.

And as far the 6th man bit, I see that as a positive.
A lot of recruits come here and expect to start because of how bad we've been. This kid sounds like a man.

If he can bring it up like DJ can, then let's let him.
I'd rather have an undersized guy with skill than a 6'11 Jasuloines who is overmatched almost every time he plays.
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redstorm1

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Re: In all honesty...
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2009, 02:07:25 PM »
i want 2 believe that we get 20+..all we have 2 do is win 4 more games n i deffinetly think thats possible...last year we had absolutly no depth and no back up options if ANYONE got in foul trouble it was over....that effects how intense players play...i think now we have the added depth to play intense the whole 40 minutes...browlee and mase could both have the option of playing the 4 so if one of are bigs gets in trouble we have that option now...i would say around 20-22 wins and atleast a NIT...another thing i dont remember playing maryland in the holiday tournament ???
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DoodyNY33

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Re: In all honesty...
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2009, 07:02:38 PM »
Quote from: bball_fan on May 15, 2009, 05:08:03 PM
For the sake of the thread, lets put aside any animosty towards Norm.

Ok well moving forward in St Johns basketball can we admitt that with this recruiting class progress is being made. Now time to weigh the good with the ugly:

Last year Ty was forced to play at the 1, which was not his position, ty is a natural 2. obviously this was a recipe for disaster. especially after boothe got injured. now with boothe healthy and stith coming in, we do have added depth. having said that, stith might be a decent spark off the bench but he will not be an instant program changer his freshman year.

Not sure how hardy is on defense but its safe to say this man can score...averaging 39 his senior year at JFK. Obviously sju can use all the scorers it can get. Omari also a pretty good scorer and defender at his position.

With the latest JUCO signing of justin we also have added depth at the 3/4 which is definetly needed.

Factor in all these with our top scorer in Mase coming back and the rest of our starters.

Also, definitly watch out for Rob Thomas next season. We all saw flashes of his potential towards the end of last season. Watch him come in and be a major factor for st johns. I have personally witnessed him in practice after the season ended and he continues to impress me. Hopefully his hard work in practice will transfer over to games next season.

So what are everyones thoughts?

I know I'm gonna be criticized for saying this, but I don't think this recruiting class is all that great.  Once again, nobody coming in is ranked in the top 50 on any legitimate scouting service and none of these players appear to be a "can't miss" type of talent.  Granted, it's a hell of a lot better than the crap we brought in last year (which might have been the worst recruiting I've ever seen as a St. John's fan), but I don't see one of these players coming in and immediately contribute to the cause.  I'm sorry if that seems like a really pessimistic approach, but in all likelihood the freshmen being brought in by Villanova, UConn, Syracuse, Georgetown, and Marquette are gonna be far superior to the group we have coming in.
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kob24

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Re: In all honesty...
« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2009, 07:42:33 PM »
Most of those schools u mentioned offered Omari
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TONYD3

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Re: In all honesty...
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2009, 07:44:43 PM »
Us winning 20 and making the dance is not likely or probable, but there is a chance. I am going to hope it happens, will it to happen, and dream it happens.  Our players are not great. That is a fact. But this team has more potential then any other Stj team in long time. Paris and DJ are not great but they are fun to root for(and hopefully getting better). Evans had some good games. We now have 2 backup point guards (better then 1). Getting Mason back is a huge positive (can't undersatand any one who doesn't see that). He is not great but he is a threat. Dele could improve. Even coach could improve. The biggest reason we will improve is that most of our players are now Juniors and seniors instead of freshman and sophmores. 
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sjd8886

Re: In all honesty...
« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2009, 07:55:37 PM »
Quote from: TONYD3 on May 16, 2009, 07:44:43 PM
Us winning 20 and making the dance is not likely or probable, but there is a chance. I am going to hope it happens, will it to happen, and dream it happens.  Our players are not great. That is a fact. But this team has more potential then any other Stj team in long time. Paris and DJ are not great but they are fun to root for(and hopefully getting better). Evans had some good games. We now have 2 backup point guards (better then 1). Getting Mason back is a huge positive (can't undersatand any one who doesn't see that). He is not great but he is a threat. Dele could improve. Even coach could improve. The biggest reason we will improve is that most of our players are now Juniors and seniors instead of freshman and sophmores.

yes the team does get marginally better talent wise every year...but if u havent noticed, even with that little improvement on paper we are still getting schooled almost every game...every loss to a top big east team by 19...how is norm still here? at this point who even knows if we can bring in a big name coach...i used to think so but i really dont know anymore...the next coach will have to be a good x's and o's man and will have to earn his recruits the hard way....winning...but to get back on track, this recruiting class still is sub par for the big east...how do we win when we are bringing in a middle of the pack to end of the pack recruiting class for teams in our conference, and an incompetent coach at the helm?  we most likely again, wont, unless some real magic happens to the kids this offseason...some could win alot of games with this team, not norm...im prepared for another long year
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DoodyNY33

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Re: In all honesty...
« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2009, 10:07:59 PM »
Quote from: kob24 on May 16, 2009, 07:42:33 PM
Most of those schools u mentioned offered Omari

KOB, I don't doubt that they did.  And I've heard from posters that Brownlee was being sought after by Pitino.  So maybe they'll be major contributors for the team - after all, we never know how someone will respond until they get on the court.

But again, I don't see any of these players being program changers for St. John's.  I don't see them as players who will be feared from the first time they suit up.  And that's what this team desperately needs at this stage in the game.  They need a bona fide star to take a chance on them and basically get attention for the school.  So while I don't think this class is as bad as last year (it would be pretty hard to duplicate that performance), I also don't see it as this breakthrough either.  I see it as bringing in some possible solid contributors.
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redstorm1

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Re: In all honesty...
« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2009, 10:35:36 PM »
u guys gota c some progress tho...look at next year and even this years top 100 recruits n u will c st johns atleast on 4 or 5 players list...its been a while since we even had that!...now we just need 2 bring in the ones that will stay 4 years and slowly build it up...if we bring in those "bona fide" stars they will b gone after 1 year..ok they will get attention 2 the school but as quick as it would come it would go..
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kob24

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Re: In all honesty...
« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2009, 10:46:42 PM »
But it's a known fact that Omari was offered from Pitt,uconn,and louiville. U can go on anywhere on the web and find that out. And I believe that random posted a old article with Omari saying he wasn't coming here and everyone was saying norm missed out on another stud from newyork. Now u telling me if he decided to go to Marquette or uconn he would have been feared? I can't speak for brownlee he isn't one of my guys but as far as Omari y'all have a huge steal. But since he commited here he isnt good . And don't get it twisted I'm not considering him a program changer all by himself but he is the type of player norm should have been getting since year 3. U should be estatic he chose y'all over his other high major NCAA tournament ready teams.
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redstorm1

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Re: In all honesty...
« Reply #36 on: May 16, 2009, 10:58:53 PM »
Quote from: kob24 on May 16, 2009, 10:46:42 PM
But it's a known fact that Omari was offered from Pitt,uconn,and louiville. U can go on anywhere on the web and find that out. And I believe that random posted a old article with Omari saying he wasn't coming here and everyone was saying norm missed out on another stud from newyork. Now u telling me if he decided to go to Marquette or uconn he would have been feared? I can't speak for brownlee he isn't one of my guys but as far as Omari y'all have a huge steal. But since he commited here he isnt good . And don't get it twisted I'm not considering him a program changer all by himself but he is the type of player norm should have been getting since year 3. U should be estatic he chose y'all over his other high major NCAA tournament ready teams.

exactly and when was the last time we got a highly touted kidd out of nyc!?..this was a huge grab 4 us and he had a lot more GREAT schools offering him then jus pitt louisville uconn marquette he had tons of offers im excited 2 c what he can do 2 help build the program cuz he seems excited 2 play here
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Classof2013

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Re: In all honesty...
« Reply #37 on: May 16, 2009, 11:45:50 PM »
i haven't seen omari since last year. but i have a gut feeling he won't be a contributor next year.  physically he just sounds very very behind and we have a log jam at the 2/3.  this is all from what i've heard, so don't take for the gospel. but he just sounds really behind athletically in that he has to slim down and regain his quickness/burst.  this is the big east so it was goign to be tough for him anyway.  i think omari will be a very good get for us for the overhaul though, just don't see it in his first year.  i know nothing about bromlee so i can't say a word, but i know he picked us over oklahoma state.

i still don't see progress.  last year's class was the worst class in STJ history, even mr. **** ******* couldn't go lower than that this year...  this year we still missed out on our top targets, like every other year.  we got omari which is very nice, but missed out on scott and lance. 

those top 100 guys i wouldn't bank on.  all of those new heights kids were gonna come here for young not for norm.  doesn't mean we are out of it but it does mean we don't have an advantage.  add that to norm obviously being on the hot seat and we are in trouble.  i expect next year's class to suck until a new coach comes in.

the wrecklessness in the scholarships is why no one can be encouraged.  it is a flat out joke and disgrace that we will have 9 free scholarships in two years. NINE.  that's a staggering amount.  in 2 years we will be rebuilding even more than what norm had to rebuild when he got here.  that's why no one can be happy about this program, or even be slightly encouraged.  next year we are a fringe NCAA team at best. 

all i will say is, if norm is here in two years with 9 free scholarships. we are done
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kob24

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Re: In all honesty...
« Reply #38 on: May 17, 2009, 12:35:08 AM »
What makes Omari different than Scott?
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DoodyNY33

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Re: In all honesty...
« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2009, 12:37:35 AM »
Quote from: kob24 on May 16, 2009, 10:46:42 PM
But it's a known fact that Omari was offered from Pitt,uconn,and louiville. U can go on anywhere on the web and find that out. And I believe that random posted a old article with Omari saying he wasn't coming here and everyone was saying norm missed out on another stud from newyork. Now u telling me if he decided to go to Marquette or uconn he would have been feared? I can't speak for brownlee he isn't one of my guys but as far as Omari y'all have a huge steal. But since he commited here he isnt good . And don't get it twisted I'm not considering him a program changer all by himself but he is the type of player norm should have been getting since year 3. U should be estatic he chose y'all over his other high major NCAA tournament ready teams.

KOB, I never said in any of my posts that Lawrence was not good.  And from what I've heard on all of these boards, I'm expecting him to contribute for St. John's over the course of his career in Queens.  What I'm saying is exactly what you just said ... on the surface, he's not a program changing player.  He's probably not someone who will come in next year and average 15 ppg from the start.  And while he may be an integral piece in rebuilding the program, he's probably not the player who will make St. John's relevant once more.

Plus, he's not really the recruit I'm questioning Norm about.  If Norm was bringing in 4 players with Omari's apparent skill set, I wouldn't be so lukewarm on the class.  It just seems like we're bringing in a crop of players that nobody really knows what to expect (once again).  2 JC recruits and 1 questionable PG signing.  And while people will give me the laundry list of apparent accomplishments that these players may have, I heard the same stuff being thrown around when we signed Edmondson, Wait, Cavataio, etc. and the same result seems to keep coming up over and over again.  I'm just wondering when people will learn their lesson, that's all.
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