i feels a storms a brewin

Without a quality starting point guard or center we are not finishing in the top half of the league.

The team definitely has some talent but I have zero confidence in the coach to develop and build on it over the course of the season.

Do you think we will finish better than we did last season?

THis has nothing to do with the thread but PMG's post got me started because i knew the last time we made the tourney we didnt have a legitimate pg or c.  Im bored and started looking that the statistics.  Same type of team except for the fact that the 02 team played defense consistently.  Same 3 pt %, assists and turnovers, our biggest on court problems.  02 team scored 4 more pts a game, which obvioulsy matters but the team this year will catch up to that with the new talent added. 

THat being said i dont think this team is close an NCAA tournament team.  Looking at the talent that team had Hatten and Glover but not much else after that.  We have alot more quality players but not that one guy who will take over a game like hatten did to beat georgetown.  THat matters for something. 

But the real difference in why that team went 20-11 is because they played great defense on a consistent basis and we have yet to do that.  That team didnt have the talent offensively to outscore people, neither do we.  I really think this is the biggest factor in how our team will perform this year. 

BTW, i know another reason may be Jarvis vs. Norm as a coach.  Personally i think they are both terrible.  If you want to say Jarvis had his team buy in more to a defensive concept that is fair.   
 
02 team
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/teams/stats?teamId=2599&year=2002

09 team
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/teams/stats?teamId=2599&year=2009

The 02 team also  had Marcus Hatten, a far better scorer than anyone we have this year.

If Dwight Hardy can put up 23 a game, we can be as good as the 02 squad. Will JB perform as well as Glover did? We'll see.

What do you think is more important to this team?

Establishing one 20ppg scorer or having 6 guys scoring in double figures per game?

You need to have a go to in college. I want a 20 point scorer.  I don't think 6 guys in double figures is realistic in a norm offense.

If you have 6 guys scoring in double figures thats not to say one can't score 20 but I think we're trying to run uptempo which should provide a lot of opportunities for everyone to score. I'm just tossing out hypotheticals.

You need to have a go to in college. I want a 20 point scorer.  I don't think 6 guys in double figures is realistic in a norm offense.

 I agree.  You need a guy that can take the ball and get a good shot off at will, especially down the stretch in a close game. Hatten and Hill (before he got hurt) had that ability in recent years..  I'm hopeful that Hardy can be that guy this season.

You need to have a go to in college. I want a 20 point scorer.  I don't think 6 guys in double figures is realistic in a norm offense.

Tha Kid, I think the Go To Guy thing is way overrated. How many games do you find yourself in the proverbial “1.7 seconds to go, down by one, who do you go to” scenario.

A team that had six guys in double figures would have beat us many times last year!!!

I think we are going to run shifts like hockey and we will see major (but scheduled) sub patterns.

Think of it this way… run Forest run!!!

Let's go RED STORM!

Quote from: Tha Kid on September 03, 2009, 08:31:00 PM

You need to have a go to in college. I want a 20 point scorer.  I don't think 6 guys in double figures is realistic in a norm offense.

Tha Kid, I think the Go To Guy thing is way overrated. How many games do you find yourself in the proverbial “1.7 seconds to go, down by one, who do you go to” scenario.

A team that had six guys in double figures would have beat us many times last year!!!

I think we are going to run shifts like hockey and we will see major (but scheduled) sub patterns.

Think of it this way… run Forest run!!!

Let's go RED STORM!

Its not for when there is 1.7 seconds to go...its for when we are in a scoring drought and the offense is stagnant.  Most(if not all) good teams have a guy that can score by creating their own shot or creating an easy shot for a teammate.  We haven't had that since Showtime and Hatten.

Quote from: pmg911 on September 03, 2009, 12:15:10 PM

Without a quality starting point guard or center we are not finishing in the top half of the league.

The team definitely has some talent but I have zero confidence in the coach to develop and build on it over the course of the season.

Do you think we will finish better than we did last season?

Barely..  I say we are 11th or 12th..

I have no faith in Norm Roberts to bring out the most of these players.

Quote from: Dave on September 03, 2009, 01:33:25 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on September 03, 2009, 12:15:10 PM

Without a quality starting point guard or center we are not finishing in the top half of the league.

The team definitely has some talent but I have zero confidence in the coach to develop and build on it over the course of the season.

Do you think we will finish better than we did last season?

Barely..  I say we are 11th or 12th..

I have no faith in Norm Roberts to bring out the most of these players.

11th or 12th is certainly fair a prediction.

However, I have to say, as much as it pains me, Roberts has turned Kennedy and Horne into Big East players, and Evans and Burrell into borderline BE players.

Players are starting to improve under him, we just need more of them.

If 2 of our newcomers are BE players on par with Kennedy and Horne, we'll win 18-20 games. I'm not saying NCAA, but 8-10 finish in the BE is possible.

Maybe this weekend, we'll learn a bit about how good our new guys are.

Quote from: Dave on September 03, 2009, 01:33:25 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on September 03, 2009, 12:15:10 PM

Without a quality starting point guard or center we are not finishing in the top half of the league.

The team definitely has some talent but I have zero confidence in the coach to develop and build on it over the course of the season.

Do you think we will finish better than we did last season?

Barely..  I say we are 11th or 12th..

I have no faith in Norm Roberts to bring out the most of these players.

Do you think that our Big East record will be better or do you think the same record puts us at 11 or 12?

Quote from: pmg911 on September 04, 2009, 09:15:18 AM

Quote from: Dave on September 03, 2009, 01:33:25 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on September 03, 2009, 12:15:10 PM

Without a quality starting point guard or center we are not finishing in the top half of the league.

The team definitely has some talent but I have zero confidence in the coach to develop and build on it over the course of the season.

Do you think we will finish better than we did last season?

Barely..  I say we are 11th or 12th..

I have no faith in Norm Roberts to bring out the most of these players.

11th or 12th is certainly fair a prediction.

However, I have to say, as much as it pains me, Roberts has turned Kennedy and Horne into Big East players, and Evans and Burrell into borderline BE players.

Players are starting to improve under him, we just need more of them.

If 2 of our newcomers are BE players on par with Kennedy and Horne, we'll win 18-20 games. I'm not saying NCAA, but 8-10 finish in the BE is possible.

Maybe this weekend, we'll learn a bit about how good our new guys are.

I am not convinced Norm made Kennedy and Horne better players.  Kennedy and Horne worked their butts off over the summer between frosh and soph year and made THEMSELVES better, for sure.  Horne also got much more PT soph year.  Kennedy honestly wasn't leaps and bounds better.  We'll never know if they improved more bc of the coach or bc of themselves, but with the track record of Roberts, until I see others doing the same, I am going to lean towards that the players did it more themselves...

I am not convinced Norm made Kennedy and Horne better players.  Kennedy and Horne worked their butts off over the summer between frosh and soph year and made THEMSELVES better, for sure.  Horne also got much more PT soph year.  Kennedy honestly wasn't leaps and bounds better.  We'll never know if they improved more bc of the coach or bc of themselves, but with the track record of Roberts, until I see others doing the same, I am going to lean towards that the players did it more themselves...

Then, are you saying that the Coach is not the responsible for the non-improvement of Burrell?

Norm is responsible only for the bad, including freak injuries and clearinghouse non-qualifiers.  He gets no credit for any improvement in players.

My biggest criticism of Norm has been his recruiting failures.  If he could have brought in more stars, his coaching deficiencies wouldn't have mattered.  Unfortunately, the Kitchen-Calhoun-Wright class, which was a pretty good one, just didn't pan out.  That being said, I like some of the current players and I'm hoping for a pretty good year.  Hopefully, we will close the deal on some of the local talent in the upcoming years.  I would also like to see us mentioned in the recruiting of the top kids from around the country.  Some might just want to play in NYC and in the Garden.

Quote from: Poison on September 04, 2009, 09:20:16 AM

Quote from: pmg911 on September 04, 2009, 09:15:18 AM

Quote from: Dave on September 03, 2009, 01:33:25 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on September 03, 2009, 12:15:10 PM

Without a quality starting point guard or center we are not finishing in the top half of the league.

The team definitely has some talent but I have zero confidence in the coach to develop and build on it over the course of the season.

Do you think we will finish better than we did last season?

Barely..  I say we are 11th or 12th..

I have no faith in Norm Roberts to bring out the most of these players.

11th or 12th is certainly fair a prediction.

However, I have to say, as much as it pains me, Roberts has turned Kennedy and Horne into Big East players, and Evans and Burrell into borderline BE players.

Players are starting to improve under him, we just need more of them.

If 2 of our newcomers are BE players on par with Kennedy and Horne, we'll win 18-20 games. I'm not saying NCAA, but 8-10 finish in the BE is possible.

Maybe this weekend, we'll learn a bit about how good our new guys are.

I am not convinced Norm made Kennedy and Horne better players.  Kennedy and Horne worked their butts off over the summer between frosh and soph year and made THEMSELVES better, for sure.  Horne also got much more PT soph year.  Kennedy honestly wasn't leaps and bounds better.  We'll never know if they improved more bc of the coach or bc of themselves, but with the track record of Roberts, until I see others doing the same, I am going to lean towards that the players did it more themselves...

I'm calling hypocrisy on this one. A player improves its because of the player. If a player doesn't improve its because of the coach. It's a two way street. I'm all for giving kudos and criticism but lets be fair when we give either.

Quote from: Tha Kid on September 04, 2009, 09:55:24 AM

I am not convinced Norm made Kennedy and Horne better players.  Kennedy and Horne worked their butts off over the summer between frosh and soph year and made THEMSELVES better, for sure.  Horne also got much more PT soph year.  Kennedy honestly wasn't leaps and bounds better.  We'll never know if they improved more bc of the coach or bc of themselves, but with the track record of Roberts, until I see others doing the same, I am going to lean towards that the players did it more themselves...

Then, are you saying that the Coach is not the responsible for the non-improvement of Burrell?

I actually believe it has more to do with Burrell than Norm.  Burrell doesn't "seem" to have the desire of Paris/DJ for self-improvement and is definitely a "head case."  Norm might be able to do more, but just like with DJ and Paris, I don't know.

Quote from: Tha Kid on September 04, 2009, 09:55:24 AM

Quote from: Poison on September 04, 2009, 09:20:16 AM

Quote from: pmg911 on September 04, 2009, 09:15:18 AM

Quote from: Dave on September 03, 2009, 01:33:25 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on September 03, 2009, 12:15:10 PM

Without a quality starting point guard or center we are not finishing in the top half of the league.

The team definitely has some talent but I have zero confidence in the coach to develop and build on it over the course of the season.

Do you think we will finish better than we did last season?

Barely..  I say we are 11th or 12th..

I have no faith in Norm Roberts to bring out the most of these players.

11th or 12th is certainly fair a prediction.

However, I have to say, as much as it pains me, Roberts has turned Kennedy and Horne into Big East players, and Evans and Burrell into borderline BE players.

Players are starting to improve under him, we just need more of them.

If 2 of our newcomers are BE players on par with Kennedy and Horne, we'll win 18-20 games. I'm not saying NCAA, but 8-10 finish in the BE is possible.

Maybe this weekend, we'll learn a bit about how good our new guys are.

I am not convinced Norm made Kennedy and Horne better players.  Kennedy and Horne worked their butts off over the summer between frosh and soph year and made THEMSELVES better, for sure.  Horne also got much more PT soph year.  Kennedy honestly wasn't leaps and bounds better.  We'll never know if they improved more bc of the coach or bc of themselves, but with the track record of Roberts, until I see others doing the same, I am going to lean towards that the players did it more themselves...

I'm calling hypocrisy on this one. A player improves its because of the player. If a player doesn't improve its because of the coach. It's a two way street. I'm all for giving kudos and criticism but lets be fair when we give either.

OK Dave, you called hypocrisy.  You told me to be fair.

Now show me where I have ever killed Norm for not improving a specific player.  You're more likely to find kudos from me for improving certain guys.  I don't believe for a second that Paris Horne's jump shot imporved because of Norm Roberts.  Why should I?  Do we really believe Norm is a shooting guru that taught him? I don't.  Other than that DJ and Paris experienced normal frosh-soph BE improvement.  Norm did an "adequate" job but those guys killed themselves over the summer without Norm's instruction. 

Now come up with your proof of me being a hypocrite and unfair, or retract it, because that's some bull right there.

they looked good on weds. and good last night. also more recruits was there again. i dont think at anytime during norms tenure has he had this many recruits in 2 days. he has made inroads into the city. kids are talking about yall again. they wasnt before. alot of aau coaches are talking also. thats why i said something is brewing.
he did it smart also. kyle,sterling and doron are good friends. its smart to put them together at once so they can each see they have interest in the school. all the big time school does small things like this.