Five Observations From St. John's

WOW!


http://blogs.msg.com/gameon/2009/10/06/five-observations-from-st-johns/

   I was expecting a little more after the "wow" exclamation.  I wasn't that excited to hear that once again we will be depending on our defense to "grind out victories".  Sounds like a lot of 50-60 pt games again.  I thought we had some go to scorers this year?  Hardy, mason, horne, DJ.  what gives?   Or does it just come down to the fact that Norm knows no other way than slow down, grind it out hoops.

  Excited to hear about Brownlee though.  Dele losing weight....blah  blah  blah.   I'll be happy if he gives 8 minutes grabs 4 boards and blocks 2 shots.

  If this guy was at more than one practice and came away from it with the opinion that Dele is our best big.  We may be in a lot of trouble.  Burrell, Evans,  Thomas?   

  If this guy was at more than one practice and came away from it with the opinion that Dele is our best big.  We may be in a lot of trouble.  Burrell, Evans,  Thomas?

Maybe he doesn't think they're tall enough to be bigs in which case Dele is our only big ergo the best.  All jokes aside I've always hoped that Dele would grow into a good contributor for this team, as many bigs who don't go to St Johns seem to do over a four year career.  He's obviously a physical specimen, has shown good touch on short jumpers and free throws and decent soccer trained feet.  If he only understood the game of basketball he'd have a chance.  Maybe he's getting it.

Also since practices can't start until next weekend either this guy took his time getting this to press after Labor day weekend or he's been watching pick up games an informal workouts.

Quote from: boo3 on October 07, 2009, 05:41:01 PM

  If this guy was at more than one practice and came away from it with the opinion that Dele is our best big.  We may be in a lot of trouble.  Burrell, Evans,  Thomas?

Maybe he doesn't think they're tall enough to be bigs in which case Dele is our only big ergo the best.  All jokes aside I've always hoped that Dele would grow into a good contributor for this team, as many bigs who don't go to St Johns seem to do over a four year career.  He's obviously a physical specimen, has shown good touch on short jumpers and free throws and decent soccer trained feet.  If he only understood the game of basketball he'd have a chance.  Maybe he's getting it.

Also since practices can't start until next weekend either this guy took his time getting this to press after Labor day weekend or he's been watching pick up games an informal workouts.

Or we have another Jason Blair

12 Deep means we can be much more aggressive defensively...and having more depth at PG is nice to hear (last years situation was mad frustrating...1PG on the team?) Solid D keeps us in games when we struggle offensively and God knows we will struggle at some points this year... looking forward to seeing the guys in action.

While I have no idea of this author’s actual experience with this team, we are left to believe that he viewed one practice. While he came away with a positive feeling, it’s far from a conclusive analysis.

I think we all agree on point #1, but the consensus concern is distributing the minutes. That’s where Norm has to shine this year, and it’s not going to be an easy job.

The defense part of point #2 is right on the mark. I agree that we have enough athletic guys to defend, pressure, and force teams into TO’s this season. The presence of Malik III will give Malik II some rest while still maintaining a PG on the floor. Spoke to a HS coach of Stith who was very high on this young man, both athletically and basketball IQ wise.

Based on everything I have heard and read about this year’s team, I disagree with his last sentence. We may or may not have a ‘dominant’ scorer, but that still remains to be seen. We have plenty of bullets in the clip, just have to see if we can get them chambered and fired on target!

I love points 3 and 4, looking forward to seeing both these guys do their thing!

As for #5, I too am hoping that he considered Dele the ONLY big. Maybe JB, JB2 and Sean were playing in bare feet that day.

Apparently this guy is the Letterman of Top 5's

http://blogs.msg.com/gameon/2009/09/23/on-the-hardwood-five-observations-from-seton-hall/

http://blogs.msg.com/gameon/2009/09/29/on-the-hardwood-five-observations-from-knicks-media-day/

Just to give you some comparative examples of his work. I wouldn't exactly call his piece of St. John's positive nor is it negative but merely just observations. I don't think the fact that he mentioned only something about Dele a slight to anyone else. Who knows if even everyone was there, had class, or whatever. These aren't organized practices but just workouts.

Let's say thank you to this guy for showing us some respect at a key time for recruiting. When everyone else is talking about what we were, he's talking about what we'll be.

Coker has dropped 20 pounds. That's nice to hear. If he gave us 4.5 ppg, and 5 board, I'd be happy if he moved his feet on d.

While I have no idea of this author’s actual experience with this team, we are left to believe that he viewed one practice. While he came away with a positive feeling, it’s far from a conclusive analysis.

I think we all agree on point #1, but the consensus concern is distributing the minutes. That’s where Norm has to shine this year, and it’s not going to be an easy job.

The defense part of point #2 is right on the mark. I agree that we have enough athletic guys to defend, pressure, and force teams into TO’s this season. The presence of Malik III will give Malik II some rest while still maintaining a PG on the floor. Spoke to a HS coach of Stith who was very high on this young man, both athletically and basketball IQ wise.

Based on everything I have heard and read about this year’s team, I disagree with his last sentence. We may or may not have a ‘dominant’ scorer, but that still remains to be seen. We have plenty of bullets in the clip, just have to see if we can get them chambered and fired on target!

I love points 3 and 4, looking forward to seeing both these guys do their thing!

As for #5, I too am hoping that he considered Dele the ONLY big. Maybe JB, JB2 and Sean were playing in bare feet that day.

Good post.  Sums it up pretty good.

Looking forward to the beginning of the season to see how the rotation sorts out.  I always thought its best to have an 8 man rotation for the most part.  It will be interesting to see how the minutes are divided up.

Last year when I went to the St. John's team scrimage at SI Dele looked really good. In drills Dele shows a great amount of talent. He runs the floor well, has solid low post moves and really has a soft touch for a big man.

His issue last year was that he gets in foul trouble so quickly that he never has a chance to show his offensive talent. If he learns to adjust to game speed and stays on the floor without fouling Dele could make a big impact.

I thought that Dele's most conspicuous improvement last year was in his timing and execution of blocked shots. I wouldn't be surprised to see him loom as a force under the basket this year and if that happens he could become a game changer.

I thought that Dele's most conspicuous improvement last year was in his timing and execution of blocked shots. I wouldn't be surprised to see him loom as a force under the basket this year and if that happens he could become a game changer.

Agreed. I know that in the past, articles like this have always overhyped our guys. However, Dele is a specimen. If he did get into better shape than last year and he was able to polish his game a bit (at least on the defensive and rebounding end), we could surprise alot of people.

For instance, if he was playing C and Burrell at PF (with his decent jump shot) we could spread the floor nicely to allow some open shots and drives to the basket.

I hope he is right about Coker because this team will never win with 6'7 Sean Evans playing center. Coker's development is one of the keys for this team.

As for Booth, he has not been able to effectively pressure the ball as a Freshman & Sophmore so makes this guy think he can do it a as Junior. He can be an effective ball distributor  and does deliver the ball to guys in good position at times but his rep as a lock down defender coming out of high school was garbage and just not true.

Quote from: qcredman on October 08, 2009, 10:48:59 AM

I thought that Dele's most conspicuous improvement last year was in his timing and execution of blocked shots. I wouldn't be surprised to see him loom as a force under the basket this year and if that happens he could become a game changer.

Agreed. I know that in the past, articles like this have always overhyped our guys. However, Dele is a specimen. If he did get into better shape than last year and he was able to polish his game a bit (at least on the defensive and rebounding end), we could surprise alot of people.

For instance, if he was playing C and Burrell at PF (with his decent jump shot) we could spread the floor nicely to allow some open shots and drives to the basket.

First off, I gotta disagree wit y'all bout Dele and blockin.

Dele aint no shot blocker and should never try to do it.

He dont jump real high and he aint all that long limbed.

Dele gonna foul like mad if he try to block them shots.

Plus fo evry missed block, Dele aint in no position to rebound.

Dele's D come wit footwork first and his body second. Best believe.

The only tru shot blocker on this team should be Justin since he's got the limbs and athleticism to do it.

Right on point exactly Choz.

For Dele to get minutes & be important to this team he needs to
Rebound & stay out of foul trouble.
His points and blocks are gravy.

If Dele can give us 15 minutes & 5 rebounds,
I don't care about his blocks (a few putbacks would be nice though)

I hope he is right about Coker because this team will never win with 6'7 Sean Evans playing center. Coker's development is one of the keys for this team.

As for Booth, he has not been able to effectively pressure the ball as a Freshman & Sophmore so makes this guy think he can do it a as Junior. He can be an effective ball distributor  and does deliver the ball to guys in good position at times but his rep as a lock down defender coming out of high school was garbage and just not true.

I know we haven't seen eye to eye on this in the past but I don't see any reason why we can't be successful with Sean Evans playing Center.

Besides UConn who had a legit C in the Big East last year? Louisville and Pitt didn't seem to suffer.

I do think having a legit center does pay dividends but its not required. Generally in this era of basketball these big men are far and few inbetween and if they do play college ball its one and done.

Speaking of the number 5 here are my 5 problems that the team will have to overcome to be competitive this season:
5. PONT GUARD PLAY. Boothe has been AWFUL! Now in fairness to him, he is still playing in an offense that was geared towards a slow moving headband. Hopefully Boothe shows something otherwise Stith might have to play more and well becuase no team can be succesful without a good point unless they have a superstar wing player.

4. 25 WING PLAYERS ON THE ROSTER. The main problem with this is two of them happen to be our best all round players and one is probably our best scorer. Having depth is great except all of our depth is at the two and three position. Horne and Kennedy should be on hte court as much as possible! Now with Off Balance Jumper jr back and a couple of decent recruits they will play less. Your best players should always play a lot. If Hardy and Lawrence are indeed going to warrant time, I am not sure how this can work?

3. STYLE OF PLAY. I don't care what anyone thinks, I will not believe we will play any differently until I see it in a BE game! For 5 years no matter the personal we have played the same way. Now I guess Norm felt he was outgunned so he tried to limit the other team's possesions and ugly up the game. If he continues this style of play there is absolutely NO WAY you can legitimetely play more than 9 guys let alone 6 wing guys!

2. FRONTCOURT. Unless Coker suddenly realized that he is supposed to actually grab rebounds and not foul every living person in his vicinity he is nothing more than a black man's Sean Muto. Evans was our most productive Big and he hustles and plays hard. That being said he is totally raw and undersized. Rob Thomas is the only big that has any inside moves but he has bad knees, will not play that much is probably only 6-4 and can't even jump over Malik Boothe er I mean a phonebook. The key is Burrell! If he plays anything close to the way he did last year this team will stink again!

1. GO TO PLAYER. Our best two all -around players, though decent scorers aren't really go to players! I like Kennedy and Horne and think they would be solid players on even a really good BE team but your 2 and 3 position players should be your prime time guys. Horne and Kennedy are just not at that level. Mason will most likely be the go to guy, but it is a role that frankly he is ill suited for. When he was a Frosh and Soph he played the game right and was a Horne/ Kenendy kind of player. In his junior year he stopped doing all of the little things and some big things like rebounding and not dribbling the ball up by his neck. His jumpshot is never the same two times in a row and he stopped driving to the hoop sometime in the middle of his sophmore year. His biggest flaw however is a selfishness that is not fun to watch and if a poster with an in on this team is to be believed not fun to play with either.

So those are the 5 things this team will have to overcome to be competitive in the BE this year IMO.
BTW I did not even include the actual coaching

Quote from: Johnny4Life on October 08, 2009, 11:12:04 AM

Quote from: qcredman on October 08, 2009, 10:48:59 AM

I thought that Dele's most conspicuous improvement last year was in his timing and execution of blocked shots. I wouldn't be surprised to see him loom as a force under the basket this year and if that happens he could become a game changer.

Agreed. I know that in the past, articles like this have always overhyped our guys. However, Dele is a specimen. If he did get into better shape than last year and he was able to polish his game a bit (at least on the defensive and rebounding end), we could surprise alot of people.

For instance, if he was playing C and Burrell at PF (with his decent jump shot) we could spread the floor nicely to allow some open shots and drives to the basket.

First off, I gotta disagree wit y'all bout Dele and blockin.

Dele aint no shot blocker and should never try to do it.

He dont jump real high and he aint all that long limbed.

Dele gonna foul like mad if he try to block them shots.

Plus fo evry missed block, Dele aint in no position to rebound.

Dele's D come wit footwork first and his body second. Best believe.

The only tru shot blocker on this team should be Justin since he's got the limbs and athleticism to do it.

Most of Dele's fouls came from 25+ feet away from the basket. Stupid pick and roll fouls trying to push the guard out. I think he is a fine shotblocker.

He doubled his shot blocking production with keeping his personal fouls about even. If we can get Dele up to 15 mpg and get him around 4ppg, 4.5rpg, 1.5bpg that would be awesome.

I don't think Dele's was a cause of concern on defense as much as he was on offense. I don't know whether it was the fact he was more aggressive or lackadaisical but his turnovers were very frequent. Either we have to put him into a position to where he won't turn over the ball as much or really work on his hand strength(which would help with rebounding and finishing dunks)

My two biggest criticisms of Norm's coaching are:

  1.  On offense, having the big men come out past the foul line to set the pick.  They are then out of position to do anything offensively down low and have give up their rebounding position.

   2.  On defense, when the other team sets a pick, the big switches to cover and then has to scramble back down low.  I don't like to see big men too far away from the basket.  The only exception is that Justin is pretty effective at scoring from 8-12 feet out.  He has an incredibly soft touch on his shot for someone as big and strong as he is.