Norm restored integrity to this program...

Quote from: we are sju on March 11, 2010, 09:17:15 AM

a case could be made that he did as much damage as Jarvis.

Go ahead and make it.

I agree with Foad.  Norm left this program in a fine spot for someone to take over and succeed.  Jarvis didn't.

Quote from: we are sju on March 11, 2010, 09:17:15 AM

a case could be made that he did as much damage as Jarvis.

Go ahead and make it.

Sure why not.
Norm inherited an embarrasing scandal depleted team. However he also inherited the best two players he ever coached.

While it is true he lost some scholies, as he proved later on he was not a good recruiter anyway, so how much did that really hurt him?

The fan support was great his first couple years. No one expected anything and everyone was behind him. He was in a no lose situation.

Many schools have come back from scandals. Baylor, Kentucky, every school Calipari leaves. It is not like we received the NCAA death penalty.

He had the built in excuse of blaming Jarvis which he beat to death, burned, buried, dug up, beat some more, re burned and buried again only to dig up and beat whenever the need arised.

Though he did not inherit a good situation, the school had been to an NCAA as recently as 3 years previous.

NOW FOR THE NEW COACH
Team has been a basketball wasteland for going on 8 years. It is an after thought with NY players openly mocking it.

Kids have no idea who Barkley, Bootsy and Postall are let alone Mullin and Berry.

Schools like Uconn, Louisville and Pitt have been sucking the area dry for talent and that pipeline will have to be broken.

Though he was a terrible coach who played a terrible style of play, using Norm as an excuse will not work the same way as using Jarvis who was a polarizing figure.

Our style of play was so awful that even with a new coach kids will still remember our 17 point halves and 50 point games. A new coach will almost have to play an uptempo game even if that is not his prefered style or the fact that he won't have the personal to do it.

The fans now having sat through 8 years of truly disgusting basketball will not have nearly the patience that it showed for Norm.

The defense rests.

I think I made Clarence Darrow proud.   

Quote from: we are sju on March 11, 2010, 10:40:10 AM

If he is anything like he is old man, he will not strike out in little league

Right, he'll wait till he's a little older.

Hey if he saves me college tuition he can k all he wants in College. My pops seemed pretty happy with it  Matter of fact whenever I would complain about my playing time my father would smile and say"don't you realize how much beer money you saved me".

Quote from: Tha Kid on March 11, 2010, 10:25:27 AM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 11, 2010, 10:22:27 AM

Quote from: Tha Kid on March 11, 2010, 10:11:09 AM

Baldi - you are a moderator.  How is this relevant to my post at ALL?  Put it somewhere else.  If Baldi - a moderator - refuses to do so, can one of the legit moderators here do so?  This thread was essentially recognizing Norm's time here, yet Baldi is trying to hijack it.

How is not relevant?

How IS it relevant is the better question.  Why are you hijacking a thread that compliments Norm for once?  You're in a mood to troll and it's #$%^ing up every thread even the ones that aren't all FIRE NORM and everything.  It is a #$%^ing embarassment that you are a moderator and I seriously hope peter or dave sees what you're doing here and gets rid of your post --- it belongs elsewhere --- NOT this thread which was intended to be a kind of nice farewell to Norm.

They can do whatever they want with it ratboy. Looks like someone took a squirt in your mocha latte

Baldi don't call names or attack posters. Come on man you know better than this.

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 11, 2010, 10:27:07 AM

Quote from: Tha Kid on March 11, 2010, 10:25:27 AM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 11, 2010, 10:22:27 AM

Quote from: Tha Kid on March 11, 2010, 10:11:09 AM

Baldi - you are a moderator.  How is this relevant to my post at ALL?  Put it somewhere else.  If Baldi - a moderator - refuses to do so, can one of the legit moderators here do so?  This thread was essentially recognizing Norm's time here, yet Baldi is trying to hijack it.

How is not relevant?

How IS it relevant is the better question.  Why are you hijacking a thread that compliments Norm for once?  You're in a mood to troll and it's #$%^ing up every thread even the ones that aren't all FIRE NORM and everything.  It is a #$%^ing embarassment that you are a moderator and I seriously hope peter or dave sees what you're doing here and gets rid of your post --- it belongs elsewhere --- NOT this thread which was intended to be a kind of nice farewell to Norm.

They can do whatever they want with it ratboy. Looks like someone took a squirt in your mocha latte

Baldi don't call names or attack posters. Come on man you know better than this.

This guy calls me an embarasment, I wont have that. Thats enough on this issue for me

Quote from: Dave on March 11, 2010, 11:47:28 AM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 11, 2010, 10:27:07 AM

Quote from: Tha Kid on March 11, 2010, 10:25:27 AM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 11, 2010, 10:22:27 AM

Quote from: Tha Kid on March 11, 2010, 10:11:09 AM

Baldi - you are a moderator.  How is this relevant to my post at ALL?  Put it somewhere else.  If Baldi - a moderator - refuses to do so, can one of the legit moderators here do so?  This thread was essentially recognizing Norm's time here, yet Baldi is trying to hijack it.

How is not relevant?

How IS it relevant is the better question.  Why are you hijacking a thread that compliments Norm for once?  You're in a mood to troll and it's #$%^ing up every thread even the ones that aren't all FIRE NORM and everything.  It is a #$%^ing embarassment that you are a moderator and I seriously hope peter or dave sees what you're doing here and gets rid of your post --- it belongs elsewhere --- NOT this thread which was intended to be a kind of nice farewell to Norm.

They can do whatever they want with it ratboy. Looks like someone took a squirt in your mocha latte

Baldi don't call names or attack posters. Come on man you know better than this.

This guy calls me an embarasment, I wont have that. Thats enough on this issue for me

I never said you were an embarassment.  I think it's an embarassment you are a moderator considering you troll, flame, and call names.  Cut it out.

Regardless if they move Baldi's flaming post about Norm staying, I'd appreciate it if you did the right thing and deleted all the rest of your posts baldi...since you claim to not want to hijack things...and since you're a mod...

Quote from: Foad on March 11, 2010, 10:23:45 AM

Quote from: we are sju on March 11, 2010, 09:17:15 AM

a case could be made that he did as much damage as Jarvis.

Go ahead and make it.

Sure why not.
Norm inherited an embarrasing scandal depleted team. However he also inherited the best two players he ever coached.

While it is true he lost some scholies, as he proved later on he was not a good recruiter anyway, so how much did that really hurt him?

The fan support was great his first couple years. No one expected anything and everyone was behind him. He was in a no lose situation.

Many schools have come back from scandals. Baylor, Kentucky, every school Calipari leaves. It is not like we received the NCAA death penalty.

He had the built in excuse of blaming Jarvis which he beat to death, burned, buried, dug up, beat some more, re burned and buried again only to dig up and beat whenever the need arised.

Though he did not inherit a good situation, the school had been to an NCAA as recently as 3 years previous.

NOW FOR THE NEW COACH
Team has been a basketball wasteland for going on 8 years. It is an after thought with NY players openly mocking it.

Kids have no idea who Barkley, Bootsy and Postall are let alone Mullin and Berry.

Schools like Uconn, Louisville and Pitt have been sucking the area dry for talent and that pipeline will have to be broken.

Though he was a terrible coach who played a terrible style of play, using Norm as an excuse will not work the same way as using Jarvis who was a polarizing figure.

Our style of play was so awful that even with a new coach kids will still remember our 17 point halves and 50 point games. A new coach will almost have to play an uptempo game even if that is not his prefered style or the fact that he won't have the personal to do it.

The fans now having sat through 8 years of truly disgusting basketball will not have nearly the patience that it showed for Norm.

Wow, what load of of irrelevant twaddle. All this stuff about style of play, Baylor, excuses, and whatever else, has nothing to do with the state of the program.

Jarvis left the new coach a scandal plagued team facing NCAA probation and a loss of scholarships. In the final year of Jarhead's tenure the team won 6 games. Off the court Jarvis destroyed what had previously been one of SJ few assets - its historic association with NYC high schools - by announcing that he was no longer going to offer scholarships to NYC high school players.

Norm is leaving the new coach nine good citizen seniors on a team that won 17 games, having repaired the bridges to the community that Jarvis had destroyed.

You just said this AM that this team is can make the Sweet 16 next year with a new coach. (I agree with you. I think this is a tournament team next year with the same coach, and exactly the sort of team - athletic seniors that play defense - that can make a run.) Now you're claiming that the coach who left the team facing NCAA sanctions left it better off than the coach who left the team on the cusp of a tournament run. I don't think so.

The defense rests.

If this is the best you can do you'd be better off going whole hog and having a long nap.

Quote from: we are sju on March 11, 2010, 10:57:58 AM

Quote from: Foad on March 11, 2010, 10:23:45 AM

Quote from: we are sju on March 11, 2010, 09:17:15 AM

a case could be made that he did as much damage as Jarvis.

Go ahead and make it.

Sure why not.
Norm inherited an embarrasing scandal depleted team. However he also inherited the best two players he ever coached.

While it is true he lost some scholies, as he proved later on he was not a good recruiter anyway, so how much did that really hurt him?

The fan support was great his first couple years. No one expected anything and everyone was behind him. He was in a no lose situation.

Many schools have come back from scandals. Baylor, Kentucky, every school Calipari leaves. It is not like we received the NCAA death penalty.

He had the built in excuse of blaming Jarvis which he beat to death, burned, buried, dug up, beat some more, re burned and buried again only to dig up and beat whenever the need arised.

Though he did not inherit a good situation, the school had been to an NCAA as recently as 3 years previous.

NOW FOR THE NEW COACH
Team has been a basketball wasteland for going on 8 years. It is an after thought with NY players openly mocking it.

Kids have no idea who Barkley, Bootsy and Postall are let alone Mullin and Berry.

Schools like Uconn, Louisville and Pitt have been sucking the area dry for talent and that pipeline will have to be broken.

Though he was a terrible coach who played a terrible style of play, using Norm as an excuse will not work the same way as using Jarvis who was a polarizing figure.

Our style of play was so awful that even with a new coach kids will still remember our 17 point halves and 50 point games. A new coach will almost have to play an uptempo game even if that is not his prefered style or the fact that he won't have the personal to do it.

The fans now having sat through 8 years of truly disgusting basketball will not have nearly the patience that it showed for Norm.

Wow, what load of of irrelevant twaddle. All this stuff about style of play, Baylor, excuses, and whatever else, has nothing to do with the state of the program.

Jarvis left the new coach a scandal plagued team facing NCAA probation and a loss of scholarships. In the final year of Jarhead's tenure the team won 6 games. Off the court Jarvis destroyed what had previously been one of SJ few assets - its historic association with NYC high schools - by announcing that he was no longer going to offer scholarships to NYC high school players.

Norm is leaving the new coach nine good citizen seniors on a team that won 17 games, having repaired the bridges to the community that Jarvis had destroyed.

You just said this AM that this team is can make the Sweet 16 next year with a new coach. (I agree with you. I think this is a tournament team next year with the same coach, and exactly the sort of team - athletic seniors that play defense - that can make a run.) Now you're claiming that the coach who left the team facing NCAA sanctions left it better off than the coach who left the team on the cusp of a tournament run. I don't think so.

Quote

The defense rests.

If this is the best you can do you'd be better off going whole hog and having a long nap.

Honestly my heart wasn't in it but I got tired of people waxing poetic about Norm.Yes the next coach walks into a better situation for next season. Which is why this had to be done now. If the admin waited another year the next coach would have walked into an equal if not worse situation.
Two things I do believe are that one, a lot of the problems Jarvis caused Norm made worse by his overall lack of success and relevancy. Most prominent being the schools's status for top recruits.
Number two is this team would have fallen short of an NCAA bid next year with Norm as coach. Two more wins maybe and an NIT for sure, but no dance.

Honestly my heart wasn't in it but I got tired of people waxing poetic about Norm.Yes the next coach walks into a better situation for next season. Which is why this had to be done now. If the admin waited another year the next coach would have walked into an equal if not worse situation.Two things I do believe are that one, a lot of the problems Jarvis caused Norm made worse by his overall lack of success and relevancy. Most prominent being the schools's status for top recruits.
Number two is this team would have fallen short of an NCAA bid next year with Norm as coach. Two more wins maybe and an NIT for sure, but no dance.

1. There's no question that Norm wasn't the best choice, or even a good one. That he fell short as an X and O guy doesn't mean he deserves to be villified. To continue your eulogy analogy, not every deserves one, but everyone gets one, except maybe Hitler.

2. If the admin waits another year they'll never make a change, because the team will win next year regardless and Norm will have filled 8 more scholarships. This is the tipping point.

3. You will never convince me that Jarvis was not the worst coach ever. His trajectory was straight down: from the elite 8 to probation. I'd take Norm over him today, tomorrow, yesterday, and on the moon.

Quote from: we are sju on March 11, 2010, 01:04:56 PM

Honestly my heart wasn't in it but I got tired of people waxing poetic about Norm.Yes the next coach walks into a better situation for next season. Which is why this had to be done now. If the admin waited another year the next coach would have walked into an equal if not worse situation.Two things I do believe are that one, a lot of the problems Jarvis caused Norm made worse by his overall lack of success and relevancy. Most prominent being the schools's status for top recruits.
Number two is this team would have fallen short of an NCAA bid next year with Norm as coach. Two more wins maybe and an NIT for sure, but no dance.

1. There's no question that Norm wasn't the best choice, or even a good one. That he fell short as an X and O guy doesn't mean he deserves to be villified. To continue your eulogy analogy, not every deserves one, but everyone gets one, except maybe Hitler.

2. If the admin waits another year they'll never make a change, because the team will win next year regardless and Norm will have filled 8 more scholarships. This is the tipping point.

3. You will never convince me that Jarvis was not the worst coach ever. His trajectory was straight down: from the elite 8 to probation. I'd take Norm over him today, tomorrow, yesterday, and on the moon.

Again I had no love for Jarvis except I loved the Elite 8 team.
The Elite 8 team, the following year despite the disappointing NCAA loss and the Hatten experiance make me hate Jarvis less as a COACH then I do Norm. Was Jarvis a blowhard dirt bag? It appears so. And like yourself I didn't think he was a particularly good coach. It is just no matter how it turned out he banked more good times for me than Norm did.