Your 2011//12 starting lineup

I like Garret's outside shot, although it is a bit slow.  The form looks pretty decent.   I think he'll be a very able shooter for us by his second year.  I see him as a SG.  Baseball guys usually fair better in the long run with sharpening skills.  I worry that he could struggle to find PT with Harkless and Pointer, but I wouldn't be shocked if he earned  starting spot either.  He's ultra athletic--more than Harkless IMO, and he will get after it on defense.  He definitely fits Lavin's system to a T.  I worry that Lindsey might not find so much time on the floor unless he commits himself to the defensive end, because of guys like Garrett, Pointer, and Greene who are all ready to "get lost in the defense" like Lavin preaches.  Also with Greene, he's a shooter and Lindsey isn't.  I'm very impressed with what I've seen on Greene.  He looks like he can do it all, and he probably played a more competitive schedule this past year than Nuri.  I think his ceiling is much higher.

Garrett's shot doesn't look bad, but in the two games I've watched Garrett he was definitely off-the-mark.  Maybe, he's a streaky shooter.  I'll take streaky shooting from him for now, if that's the case.  NTSG watched Garrett over the summer and he mentioned something to the effect about Garrett needing to hone his jumper.  I like Garrett's hustle, energy, fluidity and the way he passes the ball.

Here you go with the Lindsey stuff again....  LOL  You continue to go against what scouts AND Lavin stated about Lindsey.  Lindsey will find time on the court and will still play an integral role in what the Johnnies do next season.  I'll continue to say so, until I see differently.  Lindsey's shortcomings can be corrected.  He has the lateral ability to be a defender.  Not to mention, I'm not sure how much man we'll be playing anyhow.  If, he's coachable then I'm more than sure his shortcomings can and will be corrected.  Lindsey is a scorer.  Plain and simple.  A guy who can find ways to put the ball in the hole.

Have you ever seen Greene play other than a couple of video clips he has on the internet?  I don't think you've seen him or you would've stated it awhile back.  I've briefly watched Greene play a couple of times at the Peach Jam.  He seemed to be a pretty decent player when I saw him last summer.  I find it rather funny you're propping up one player you've only witness play per video clips, while you consistently poke holes in the game of someone who could be the JUCO POY and has been getting solid reviews per scouts.

I guess you were disappointed that Lindsey fell short of your personal expectations, albeit one game, and now you've consistently gone against what scouts and Lavin has stated about Lindsey.  I'm sure you saw the couple of games of Garrett on tv and he didn't shoot the ball well at all.  He had a terrific floor game versus Yates, but his jumper was definitely off.  It (Garrett's jumper) was off against Yates and Lincoln.

I've noticed you said, he'll be an able shooter by his sophomore year.  Based on?  Maybe, Lindsey's behind-the-arc jumper comes around, as well.  I've never seen you say such since you've watched Lindsey.

You see how all of this works, right?  I want all of these kids to do well, as they will be representing St. John's.  No doubt about it!  If, they are palying well then it usually means the Johnnies are doing well.  Granted, Greene might have a higher ceiling than Lindsey, considering Lindsey is older.  But, how can you really be so absolute when you've yet to see Greene play in person and only have seen Lindsey play once?

Nuri will be our starting pg.  Come on marillac.  Reality check.   Many of us didnt think hardy would get lost in the d either...

How can anyone say they know who will be starting? It's all speculation.

How can anyone say they know who will be starting? It's all speculation.

  Exactly!  No one on this board has seen any of these guys play any extended minutes besides youtube highlights and a couple of Garret's games which were on ESPN. I think MJ and maybe Dave have actually see these guys play enough to the point where i would listen to what they say. 

  That being said, any proclamations at this point are absurd. Its fine to speculate, but to say anything with absolute certainty is foolish. 

Even if all of us have seen them play, you never know how a kid will handle being a freshman in NYC, where winning is the only acceptable outcome.

Even if all of us have seen them play, you never know how a kid will handle being a freshman in NYC, where winning is the only acceptable outcome.

IMO, it doesn't have anything to do with handling NYC.  Winning is the only acceptable outcome with several college basketball teams from much smaller areas than NYC.  NYC didn't seem so important on winning when Norm was at the helm for 2 years too long.  It is gonna come down to our newcomers handling the rigors of college basketball.

On that note, I think we'll be fine at the end of the day.

Mj, NYC, told this program that it had no love for them when they were losers. We had no fans.

Mj, NYC, told this program that it had no love for them when they were losers. We had no fans.

It still is gonna come down to how our players adjust to college basketball.  It isn't gonna have anything to do with NYC.

We're all just speculating on little bits (even if some of us take their speculating very far). I do see the concerns with Nuri's defense and jump shot. But a college staff can help correct flaws, sometimes quickly - remember how Paris Horne started as a freshman? And he got better about knowing when to shoot and honing his form.

But Nuri, in particular, looked like it was easy for him to penetrate; and that's one of the most important skills a PG can have (well, ball handling would be #1 and passing/ floor command is a close #2).

I'd say my one "worry" with Nuri is that he won't be able to be on campus in the summer. Even if Rico and Lav and crew aren't able to hold practices, they can have limited contact with their players and help them design practice/ work out the early kinks (along with Stith and Polee). Anyone remember the contact rules in the summer?

Quote from: Marillac on March 27, 2011, 05:06:56 AM

I like Garret's outside shot, although it is a bit slow.  The form looks pretty decent.   I think he'll be a very able shooter for us by his second year.  I see him as a SG.  Baseball guys usually fair better in the long run with sharpening skills.  I worry that he could struggle to find PT with Harkless and Pointer, but I wouldn't be shocked if he earned  starting spot either.  He's ultra athletic--more than Harkless IMO, and he will get after it on defense.  He definitely fits Lavin's system to a T.  I worry that Lindsey might not find so much time on the floor unless he commits himself to the defensive end, because of guys like Garrett, Pointer, and Greene who are all ready to "get lost in the defense" like Lavin preaches.  Also with Greene, he's a shooter and Lindsey isn't.  I'm very impressed with what I've seen on Greene.  He looks like he can do it all, and he probably played a more competitive schedule this past year than Nuri.  I think his ceiling is much higher.

Garrett's shot doesn't look bad, but in the two games I've watched Garrett he was definitely off-the-mark.  Maybe, he's a streaky shooter.  I'll take streaky shooting from him for now, if that's the case.  NTSG watched Garrett over the summer and he mentioned something to the effect about Garrett needing to hone his jumper.  I like Garrett's hustle, energy, fluidity and the way he passes the ball.

Here you go with the Lindsey stuff again....  LOL  You continue to go against what scouts AND Lavin stated about Lindsey.  Lindsey will find time on the court and will still play an integral role in what the Johnnies do next season.  I'll continue to say so, until I see differently.  Lindsey's shortcomings can be corrected.  He has the lateral ability to be a defender.  Not to mention, I'm not sure how much man we'll be playing anyhow.  If, he's coachable then I'm more than sure his shortcomings can and will be corrected.  Lindsey is a scorer.  Plain and simple.  A guy who can find ways to put the ball in the hole.

Have you ever seen Greene play other than a couple of video clips he has on the internet?  I don't think you've seen him or you would've stated it awhile back.  I've briefly watched Greene play a couple of times at the Peach Jam.  He seemed to be a pretty decent player when I saw him last summer.  I find it rather funny you're propping up one player you've only witness play per video clips, while you consistently poke holes in the game of someone who could be the JUCO POY and has been getting solid reviews per scouts.

I guess you were disappointed that Lindsey fell short of your personal expectations, albeit one game, and now you've consistently gone against what scouts and Lavin has stated about Lindsey.  I'm sure you saw the couple of games of Garrett on tv and he didn't shoot the ball well at all.  He had a terrific floor game versus Yates, but his jumper was definitely off.  It (Garrett's jumper) was off against Yates and Lincoln.

I've noticed you said, he'll be an able shooter by his sophomore year.  Based on?  Maybe, Lindsey's behind-the-arc jumper comes around, as well.  I've never seen you say such since you've watched Lindsey.

You see how all of this works, right?  I want all of these kids to do well, as they will be representing St. John's.  No doubt about it!  If, they are palying well then it usually means the Johnnies are doing well.  Granted, Greene might have a higher ceiling than Lindsey, considering Lindsey is older.  But, how can you really be so absolute when you've yet to see Greene play in person and only have seen Lindsey play once?

I said "I think" Garrett will e an able shooter for us.  Nobody really knows...it's all total speculation--which is what we are allowed to do as fans.  The reason why I knock Nuri's outside shot and not Garrett's is because Nuri has AWFUL--not just bad--but awful form and he is 21 years old.  Garrett is a high school kid with so much more room to improve.  Also, as a baseball guy, I put more faith in him developing skills since baseball is such a skilled sport. 
In the end,  I have no idea about Garrett.   I think Mo has NBA skill and size, and Dom is a freaking animal.  It'll be tough to find burn with those two.  At the same time, I could also see him starting if he has a great summer, because he seems more well-rounded than Dom and he is more athletic than Mo.  I think SF will be such a battle, but I think Harrison will be the MAN and a kid we need on the court because of his outside shot.

I think Nuri will start at point and average about 16 ppg--look at my posts above.  I am, however, very concerned with his defense.  He played as lackluster as I've ever seen somebody play at that end.  His team looked compltely different and so much better at that end when he sat.  It was like  new team. 

As Tha Kid points out, Hardy had a pretty awful defensive season for us last year and was very steady thisyear.  That gives me hope.  I really have no clue what will happen next year, and I think that is implied with every post by every poster on every fan site. 

I said "I think" Garrett will e an able shooter for us.  Nobody really knows...it's all total speculation--which is what we are allowed to do as fans.  The reason why I knock Nuri's outside shot and not Garrett's is because Nuri has AWFUL--not just bad--but awful form and he is 21 years old.  Garrett is a high school kid with so much more room to improve.  Also, as a baseball guy, I put more faith in him developing skills since baseball is such a skilled sport. 
In the end,  I have no idea about Garrett.   I think Mo has NBA skill and size, and Dom is a freaking animal.  It'll be tough to find burn with those two.  At the same time, I could also see him starting if he has a great summer, because he seems more well-rounded than Dom and he is more athletic than Mo.  I think SF will be such a battle, but I think Harrison will be the MAN and a kid we need on the court because of his outside shot.

I think Nuri will start at point and average about 16 ppg--look at my posts above.  I am, however, very concerned with his defense.  He played as lackluster as I've ever seen somebody play at that end.  His team looked compltely different and so much better at that end when he sat.  It was like  new team. 

As Tha Kid points out, Hardy had a pretty awful defensive season for us last year and was very steady thisyear.  That gives me hope.  I really have no clue what will happen next year, and I think that is implied with every post by every poster on every fan site. 

I, recall you once saying, Garrett had a poor release on Redmen.  Now, you like Garrett's outside shot and "think" he'll be an able shooter because of his baseball is such a skilled sport.  Basketball is also a skilled sport from what I recall, as well.  I've heard and have been told by several people who has played baseball that it's the easiest sport to hone your skills versus football and basketball.  So, I don't know why baseball is such a more skilled sport than basketball by your logic.  If, that happens to be the case it still doesn't mean he'll make the necessary moves in becoming the basketball player you believe he can be.  Quite frankly, I do believe Garrett will be fine.  I agree it's all speculation, but some of your postings come off as absolutes.

Lindsey's form is awful?  I guess that is opinionated.  I didn't see where his form was awful.  A tad unorthodox, but I believe awful is a stretch.  I just believe he didn't meet your "Superman-like" status of what you perceived him to be in the game you witnessed. 

You say, you have no clue in what will happen next season, but you continue to say--seemingly, absolutely--the Johnnies will finish no higher than .500 next season.

Quote from: Marillac on April 02, 2011, 03:00:55 PM

I said "I think" Garrett will e an able shooter for us.  Nobody really knows...it's all total speculation--which is what we are allowed to do as fans.  The reason why I knock Nuri's outside shot and not Garrett's is because Nuri has AWFUL--not just bad--but awful form and he is 21 years old.  Garrett is a high school kid with so much more room to improve.  Also, as a baseball guy, I put more faith in him developing skills since baseball is such a skilled sport. 
In the end,  I have no idea about Garrett.   I think Mo has NBA skill and size, and Dom is a freaking animal.  It'll be tough to find burn with those two.  At the same time, I could also see him starting if he has a great summer, because he seems more well-rounded than Dom and he is more athletic than Mo.  I think SF will be such a battle, but I think Harrison will be the MAN and a kid we need on the court because of his outside shot.

I think Nuri will start at point and average about 16 ppg--look at my posts above.  I am, however, very concerned with his defense.  He played as lackluster as I've ever seen somebody play at that end.  His team looked compltely different and so much better at that end when he sat.  It was like  new team. 

As Tha Kid points out, Hardy had a pretty awful defensive season for us last year and was very steady thisyear.  That gives me hope.  I really have no clue what will happen next year, and I think that is implied with every post by every poster on every fan site. 

I, recall you once saying, Garrett had a poor release on Redmen.  Now, you like Garrett's outside shot and "think" he'll be an able shooter because of his baseball is such a skilled sport.  Basketball is also a skilled sport from what I recall, as well.  I've heard and have been told by several people who has played baseball that it's the easiest sport to hone your skills versus football and basketball.  So, I don't know why baseball is such a more skilled sport than basketball by your logic.  If, that happens to be the case it still doesn't mean he'll make the necessary moves in becoming the basketball player you believe he can be.  Quite frankly, I do believe Garrett will be fine.  I agree it's all speculation, but some of your postings come off as absolutes.

Lindsey's form is awful?  I guess that is opinionated.  I didn't see where his form was awful.  A tad unorthodox, but I believe awful is a stretch.  I just believe he didn't meet your "Superman-like" status of what you perceived him to be in the game you witnessed. 

You say, you have no clue in what will happen next season, but you continue to say--seemingly, absolutely--the Johnnies will finish no higher than .500 next season.

LOL now you are just arguing to argue.  I never said anything bad about Garrett's release.  His mechanics aren't picture perfect, but you can tell he can shoot it fairly well.  I think he could be 35% or a little higher as a soph if he puts in the work. If you think baseball isn't a much more skilled sport that basketball, I don't know what to tell you!   Athletic ability and size are king in basketball.  Skill is all you need to play baseball--look at Pete Rose.  It is a general statement, but I trust multiple sport athletes that play baseball for developing skill.  It's not a fool-proof formula--just a generalization.

I think we'll be .500 and, yes, I'm pretty confident about that.  History shows that freshman don't typically win.  We don't have lottery level talent either, so I think we'll be in for a long season next year.  It should be exciting, but I expect we'll be pretty damn nasty year two.  Possibly Sweet 16?  Just one man's opinion. 

LOL now you are just arguing to argue.  I never said anything bad about Garrett's release.  His mechanics aren't picture perfect, but you can tell he can shoot it fairly well.  I think he could be 35% or a little higher as a soph if he puts in the work. If you think baseball isn't a much more skilled sport that basketball, I don't know what to tell you!   Athletic ability and size are king in basketball.  Skill is all you need to play baseball--look at Pete Rose.  It is a general statement, but I trust multiple sport athletes that play baseball for developing skill.  It's not a fool-proof formula--just a generalization.

I think we'll be .500 and, yes, I'm pretty confident about that.  History shows that freshman don't typically win.  We don't have lottery level talent either, so I think we'll be in for a long season next year.  It should be exciting, but I expect we'll be pretty damn nasty year two.  Possibly Sweet 16?  Just one man's opinion. 

Actually, you did say something bad about Garrett's shot on Redmen several months ago.  I can't remember which particular recruits thread, but I'm too tired to go hunting for it now.  I know it's there, as I stumbled upon it a few days ago.  Nevertheless, I feel Garrett is one of those kids who'll continue to hone his game and be a good player throughout his duration at St. John's.  So, we're in agreement, as far as that is concerned.  LOL   

I don't knock your opinion about what you believe the team will do next season.  I knock it because you seem so absolutely sure about it.  I don't look for us to roll people over nor do I believe we're gonna roll over for teams, either.   Maybe, somewhere in between, and get better as the season wears on.   I still believe Lindsey will be a linchpin to helping us get to 19-20 wins next season.  IMO, college hoops is somewhat watered down and we don't need lottery talent to get to 19-20 wins a season from now.  I think we'll have sufficient talent to find our way into the NCAA Tournament.

I know we have a great recruiting class coming in, but where can we realistically expect to finish next year? I haven't really heard much talk about it, and it's probably a little too early to tell. Do you guys think we will be an NCAA tourny team next year?

nuri pg
harrison sg
harkless sf
polee pf
that is a guarantee. If he decides to go small then i belive he will put in pointer at the sf and move polee and harkless up a positon. if he goes big which i think he will he is gonna play the kid big kid from cali

nuri pg
harrison sg
harkless sf
polee pf
that is a guarantee. If he decides to go small then i belive he will put in pointer at the sf and move polee and harkless up a positon. if he goes big which i think he will he is gonna play the kid big kid from cali

Agreed

Iona would get every rebound against that line up. How would they handle the BE?

Iona would get every rebound against that line up. How would they handle the BE?

On what basis do you make that statement?  We would be starting a line-up of 6'10, 6'8, 6'8, 6'3, 6'2 all of which are extremely athletic.  Rebounding has just as much to do with desire and technique than it does with size.  Take for example Harrison who averaged 10.3 rebounds a game in hs and also from what I saw in the all-star game will continue to be a great rebounding guard on the next level.  Another example would be DJ leading the team this year in rebounds, if one looked just at size they would think that JB should have lead the team in rebounds or maybe Coker should have but DJ made it a priority to rebound.  You making the assertion that the line-up presented would be out rebounded by Iona is purely comical and you have no facts to back it up.

My basis for the statement is that we have one player who can realistically play 4/5 at the BE level, and he's a freshman. We need more size. A lot more.

My basis for the statement is that we have one player who can realistically play 4/5 at the BE level, and he's a freshman. We need more size. A lot more.

Once again, there is more to rebounding than size.  Yes, size can help but it isn't essential to boarding.  One of our our best rebounding teams that I can remember lacked size.  The '98-'99 team wasn't tall at all and they usually manhandled the opposition on the boards.

Rebounding is all about positioning, determination, hustle and knowing when and where the ball is gonna bounce.