Mo Hicks

Maurice Hicks, the Rice High School boys basketball coach and director of the highly regarded AAU New York Gauchos, is close to joining Steve Lavin's staff at St. John's, Gauchos general manager Rocky Bucano said Wednesday.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/college/st-john-s-close-to-hiring-hicks-for-coaching-staff-1.1862032

  great news! 

Looks like this is getting done.  Nice.  Mo is a great hire.  He gives us access to the best high school and AAU program in the city over the last ten years without alienating anyone. 

Great hire...time to put NYC talent on lockdown.

If it is as the DOBO that would limit the Gaucho/Rice pipeline for a couple of years though.  I wonder if he is coming on as an assistant instead?

Great hire...time to put NYC talent on lockdown.

If it is as the DOBO that would limit the Gaucho/Rice pipeline for a couple of years though.  I wonder if he is coming on as an assistant instead?

Can't wait to see this done. Does this mean we can't get Lamb since he was with the Gauchos?

I don't know how the rule is applied, but theoretically...if Hicks took the position and then Lamb signed, that would be a violation.  However, if Lamb signed his LOI and then Hicks took the position, perhaps that's one way around the rule.  Perhaps that's all why Hicks hasn't formally accepted the position at this point.  Just one theory.

I don't know how the rule is applied, but theoretically...if Hicks took the position and then Lamb signed, that would be a violation.  However, if Lamb signed his LOI and then Hicks took the position, perhaps that's one way around the rule.  Perhaps that's all why Hicks hasn't formally accepted the position at this point.  Just one theory.

Doesn't work that way...its no players 2 years before or 2 years after you are hired.

Thanks for the clarification

Quote from: Alleyoops on April 14, 2010, 04:28:48 PM

I don't know how the rule is applied, but theoretically...if Hicks took the position and then Lamb signed, that would be a violation.  However, if Lamb signed his LOI and then Hicks took the position, perhaps that's one way around the rule.  Perhaps that's all why Hicks hasn't formally accepted the position at this point.  Just one theory.

Doesn't work that way...its no players 2 years before or 2 years after you are hired.

the two years before part seems iffy to me. that would mean that any team with a rice or gauchos player on it as a sophmore or younger would not be allowed to hire mo. not saying your wrong just seems sort of unreasonable

Quote from: jumpinjohnny on April 14, 2010, 04:30:12 PM

Quote from: Alleyoops on April 14, 2010, 04:28:48 PM

I don't know how the rule is applied, but theoretically...if Hicks took the position and then Lamb signed, that would be a violation.  However, if Lamb signed his LOI and then Hicks took the position, perhaps that's one way around the rule.  Perhaps that's all why Hicks hasn't formally accepted the position at this point.  Just one theory.

Doesn't work that way...its no players 2 years before or 2 years after you are hired.

the two years before part seems iffy to me. that would mean that any team with a rice or gauchos player on it as a sophmore or younger would not be allowed to hire mo. not saying your wrong just seems sort of unreasonable

That's the rule:

"In men's basketball, during a two-year period before a prospective student-athlete's anticipated enrollment and a two-year period after the prospective student-athlete's actual enrollment, an institution shall not employ (or enter into a contract for future employment with) an individual associated with the prospective student-athlete in any athletics department noncoaching staff position.  (Adopted:  1/16/10; a contract signed before 10/29/09 may be honored)"

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on April 14, 2010, 04:47:42 PM

Quote from: jumpinjohnny on April 14, 2010, 04:30:12 PM

Quote from: Alleyoops on April 14, 2010, 04:28:48 PM

I don't know how the rule is applied, but theoretically...if Hicks took the position and then Lamb signed, that would be a violation.  However, if Lamb signed his LOI and then Hicks took the position, perhaps that's one way around the rule.  Perhaps that's all why Hicks hasn't formally accepted the position at this point.  Just one theory.

Doesn't work that way...its no players 2 years before or 2 years after you are hired.

the two years before part seems iffy to me. that would mean that any team with a rice or gauchos player on it as a sophmore or younger would not be allowed to hire mo. not saying your wrong just seems sort of unreasonable

That's the rule:

"In men's basketball, during a two-year period before a prospective student-athlete's anticipated enrollment and a two-year period after the prospective student-athlete's actual enrollment, an institution shall not employ (or enter into a contract for future employment with) an individual associated with the prospective student-athlete in any athletics department noncoaching staff position.  (Adopted:  1/16/10; a contract signed before 10/29/09 may be honored)"

Is that it?  Do you have a link to the rules?  It seems pretty vague.  I was going to look tonight but all I've seen up to this point refers to 'AAU coaches'.

Hey Moose

I've been looking searching forever on this...that is the rule.  The NCAA has a database.  I can't link to the direct section but here is the link to the database search engine.  I originally thought it had not been ratified yet but apparently it has.

https://web1.ncaa.org/LSDBi/exec/bylawSearch

If you type in the "Specified Legislative Cite" field 13.8.3.2 it will bring you to the rule.

I couldn't find the definition for an individual associated with a player in the bylaws but I found it in the proposal:


"The definition of an "individual associated with a prospect" is any person who maintains (or directs others to maintain) contact with the prospective student-athlete, the prospective student-athlete's relatives or legal guardians, or coaches at any point during the prospective student-athlete's participation in basketball, and whose contact is directly or indirectly related to the prospective student-athlete's:
(1) Athletic skills and abilities; or
(2) Recruitment by or enrollment in an NCAA institution.
This definition includes, but is not limited to, parents, legal guardians, handlers, personal trainers and coaches. An individual who meets the definition of an individual associated with a prospect retains that status during the enrollment of that prospect at that institution."


I also found a Gary Parrish blog that talks about how broad that definition is:

http://gary-parrish.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/view/6271764?mcctag=Recruiting%20Reform

We can all agree that the father or brother of a prospect is associated, and a summer league coach, too. But what about a person who might've trained a prospect three times during his junior year? Is he associated? What about a guy who runs a prospect's summer program but doesn't actually coach the prospect? Is he associated? What about the son of a prospect's AAU coach? Is he associated? What about a neighbor, a second-cousin, or a man who coached a prospect's older brother and developed a relationship with the prospect while doing so despite never actually coaching the prospect of note? Are those people associated?

Honestly, how are we not going to run into these issues?

Hey Moose

I've been looking searching forever on this...that is the rule.  The NCAA has a database.  I can't link to the direct section but here is the link to the database search engine.  I originally thought it had not been ratified yet but apparently it has.

https://web1.ncaa.org/LSDBi/exec/bylawSearch

If you type in the "Specified Legislative Cite" field 13.8.3.2 it will bring you to the rule.

I couldn't find the definition for an individual associated with a player in the bylaws but I found it in the proposal:


"The definition of an "individual associated with a prospect" is any person who maintains (or directs others to maintain) contact with the prospective student-athlete, the prospective student-athlete's relatives or legal guardians, or coaches at any point during the prospective student-athlete's participation in basketball, and whose contact is directly or indirectly related to the prospective student-athlete's:
(1) Athletic skills and abilities; or
(2) Recruitment by or enrollment in an NCAA institution.
This definition includes, but is not limited to, parents, legal guardians, handlers, personal trainers and coaches. An individual who meets the definition of an individual associated with a prospect retains that status during the enrollment of that prospect at that institution."


I also found a Gary Parrish blog that talks about how broad that definition is:

http://gary-parrish.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/view/6271764?mcctag=Recruiting%20Reform

We can all agree that the father or brother of a prospect is associated, and a summer league coach, too. But what about a person who might've trained a prospect three times during his junior year? Is he associated? What about a guy who runs a prospect's summer program but doesn't actually coach the prospect? Is he associated? What about the son of a prospect's AAU coach? Is he associated? What about a neighbor, a second-cousin, or a man who coached a prospect's older brother and developed a relationship with the prospect while doing so despite never actually coaching the prospect of note? Are those people associated?

Honestly, how are we not going to run into these issues?

I couldnt get to the search area.  It said the session had timed out and I needed to login?  I read Parrish's two blog entries and the rule as you cut and pasted it.  I knew it was ratified but now I'm even more confused.  There is nothing about timing on that rule.  And as Parrish alludes its chalk full of gray areas.

Hiring Hicks would eliminate Rice guys but again for how long?  I don't see any number of years.  As for Gauchos Mo ran the program and therefore directed others to maintain contact with players but again how long is this for?

Lamb was/is a Gaucho, right?

no log in needed...put your mouse over search and click on legislation on the drop down menu.

The rule I posted above states 2 years before expected enrollment or 2 years after actual enrollment....no players could be enrolled from Rice or Gauchos for 2 years from the date of his hire.  Therefore noone from Rice or the Gauchos in the 2010 class or the 2011 class could come.  And that would include Lamb if Hicks was hired as DOBO.

no log in needed...put your mouse over search and click on legislation on the drop down menu.

The rule I posted above states 2 years before expected enrollment or 2 years after actual enrollment....no players could be enrolled from Rice or Gauchos for 2 years from the date of his hire.  Therefore noone from Rice or the Gauchos in the 2010 class or the 2011 class could come.  And that would include Lamb if Hicks was hired as DOBO.

well it says expected and anticipated enrollment...so enrollment applies to his general enrollment in college?  bc no one was ever expecting or anticipating him to enroll at sju

...If it is as the DOBO that would limit the Gaucho/Rice pipeline for a couple of years though.  I wonder if he is coming on as an assistant instead?

Why would that make a difference? Wouldn't both positions be covered under the rule?

Quote from: jumpinjohnny on April 14, 2010, 04:07:16 PM

...If it is as the DOBO that would limit the Gaucho/Rice pipeline for a couple of years though.  I wonder if he is coming on as an assistant instead?

Why would that make a difference? Wouldn't both positions be covered under the rule?

Hiring as an assistant is fine.  NCAA just doesnt want schools adding BS or non coaching positions and stacking them just to entice kids.

Quote from: jumpinjohnny on April 14, 2010, 04:07:16 PM

...If it is as the DOBO that would limit the Gaucho/Rice pipeline for a couple of years though.  I wonder if he is coming on as an assistant instead?

Why would that make a difference? Wouldn't both positions be covered under the rule?

The way I understand it... Hiring Mo as an actual assistant coach is fine and we would be able to recruit guys he has worked with.  Hiring him for a non-coaching position like DOBO would not allow us to recruit kids in contact with him in that 2 yr time frame.  It makes sense because not many head coaches are gonna give one of their 3 assistant jobs away to lure in a recruit and if they do they cant be doing it every year or even every couple years.

Hiring as an assistant is fine.  NCAA just doesnt want schools adding BS or non coaching positions and stacking them just to entice kids.

This was how Memphis' bench, under Calipari, looked akin to a Department of Motor Vehicles' line. He hired Tyreke Evans' trainer, etc.

Hiring as an assistant is fine.  NCAA just doesn't want schools adding BS or non coaching positions and stacking them just to entice kids.

The way I understand it... Hiring Mo as an actual assistant coach is fine and we would be able to recruit guys he has worked with.  Hiring him for a non-coaching position like DOBO would not allow us to recruit kids in contact with him in that 2 yr time frame.  It makes sense because not many head coaches are gonna give one of their 3 assistant jobs away to lure in a recruit and if they do they cant be doing it every year or even every couple years.

Thanks for the clarification guys.

I wondered if we got Kadeem Jack to sign first then hired Mo Hicks would that be a loop hole?