The Glories of Avery Patterson, by Carmine

Perhaps if we were playing Navy, or North Florida, A Patt could have gone off in the Garden.

Or Texas or Depaul, right?  He went off against against ranked teams and BE teams as well.

playing D3 ball the next year?

He played in D2 and led all of D2 in 3 point shooting quite naturally.

Quote from: peter on May 24, 2010, 04:28:36 PM

Patterson played with the junior Eugene Lawrence, who enjoyed arguably his best year in the Red Storm uniform.

This is akin to saying in (fill in the blank) year, George W. Bush enjoyed arguably his best year in the White House.  Geno stunk every year of his career as did Bush.  None of it was arguably enjoyable.

72 threes on that team with that coach/point guard tandem is a freakin miracle.  If Avery "three point record holder" Patterson had the priviledge of playing with Omar under the "Program Destroyer",  he would have gone off for 100.

Omar Cook was a better passer.  He was great.  He also played with  head filled with knuckles.  Basically, he was a more talented Edgar Sosa.  Geno was almost as good his junior year, in fact; adjusting for tempo, he was in the top 20 of assist percentage - though more of a turnover machine.  But he was finding guys, and St. John's had a high percentage of assisted shots. 

You are wrong.  Everyone loves to bash Geno, but for much of his career he was an incredibly impressive passer (by rate, not by degree of difficulty, which Omar Cook leads in. Along with dumb-assed passes).  Geno's stink came from his shooting and ballhandling.  Omar Cook wasn't actually much better - but he had so much more ability, making it sadder.  St. John's fans might not talk about this because Geno is a symbol to a lot of people of bad management. But an impartial observer with rate stats or their eyes would see that despite being slow, Geno was tough/ could make the right pass (along with a few if the wrong ones)/ would steal the ball from anyone he could.

Things most people want in a three-point shooter: the knowledge that when he shoots, it has a very good chance of going in.

Things you want in a three-point shooter: Philip Seymour Hoffman in "Along Came Polly" talking about making it rain!   

Carmine, he went off against Depaul? You forgot Cincinatti and world-beater Niagara.

Peter Geno was strong, but his senior year the guy phoned it in.

This is akin to saying in (fill in the blank) year, George W. Bush enjoyed arguably his best year in the White House.  Geno stunk every year of his career as did Bush.

Or how about this. In (fill in the blank) year, Carmine Abbatiello posted on the internets a reasoned, well supported argument concerning a subject that he vaguely understood.

In 2006 Lawrence's per game average was 7 points, 4 rebounds, 6 assists, and 1.25 pps. He shot 38 percent from the floor, and 37 percent from 3.

In 2006 Patterson's per game average was 10 points, 3 rebounds, 1 assist, and 1.05 pps. He shot 35 percent from the floor and 32 percent from three.

To his credit, Patterson - an alleged shooting guard - did manage to score 3 more points per game than PG Lawrence, totalling about 100 points more than GL over the course of the season. To score that field goal and a half more per game Patterson required 120 more shots than GL over the course of a season; in fact, AP missed over 200 shots that year, 30 more misses than Lawrence had attempts.

Other than that 3 point per game difference in their scoring averages, Patterson performed worse than Lawrence in every statistical category. And you claim that Lawrence "stunk." If Lawrence stunk and Patterson was worse, what does that make Patterson? Not to you - because we wouldn't be here if you didn't believe him to be one of the greats - but what word would a person of even normal intelligence use to describe something that's worse than "stunk"? I'll go with sucked one dimensional #$%^ing ass. Others can make their own assessments.

(totals and percentages would have been better if not for NR's mishandling of the PC headband incident).

At best this is absurd, unsupportable conjecture. At worse it's a lie - since I've pointed out these statistics before and you are therefore aware that there exists evidence that disproves your crackpot theories. In the three games before the headband game (vs Providence) Patterson averaged 30+ minutes per game and shot 7 for 25 from 3 (.28 percent). In the three games after (there were only three games left in the season) Patterson averaged the same 30+ minutes and shot 3-19 from 3 (15 percent). However, before the headband incident SJ opponents included Rutgers and South Florida, whereas after the incident SJ played Louisville and DeWk. Even a marginally talented offensive player like AP will fare better against crap teams like RU and SF, as opposed to UL and dOoK, both of which were defensive minded teams that went to the NCAAs that year.

Peter Geno was strong, but his senior year the guy phoned it in.

Sure. But inspired by the example of A-Patts, he had a solid year.  His senior year... I have some opinions about that but I try not to get too far into the character of players and their mindset, because I don't really know. 

I am currently an active basketball official that sees many, many basketball games.  More than enough to spot a stud when I see one and certaintly enough to render my opinion more valuable than yours.

One needs waders.

About a year ago, on another board, Carmine and I - this was before I pigeon holed him as just another nimrod and put him on permanent ignore - had a discussion about saxophone players. I have an undergraduate degree in the saxophone and have played the sax professionally for going on 30 years now. Carmine OTOH demonstrated that he was unable to even distinguish between a photo of an alto sax and a tenor - despite the tenor being much larger than the alto and having a crooked neck as opposed to the alto's straight neck. In fact, Carmine argued vehemently that in a photo of legendary alto player Charlie "Bird" Parker, Parker was a legendary tenor player playing a tenor sax, depite all photographic, historical, and audio evidence to the contrary.

How is this germane? In the course of that discussion, Carmine argued that all aesthetic judgments are equal, so that despite my 30 years of education and experience as a saxophone player, his opinion about the technical and aesthetic expertise of saxophone players was just as valid as mine, because  outside the scientific realm his "less educated opinion is just as valid" as anyone else's.

And yet here, when asked (and unable) to defend his ludicrous opinions about Avery Patterson - perhaps the worst shooting guard in SJ history - Carmine's fall back is exactly the opposite position, that his opinion is more valid than anyone else's merely because of his experience, which experience in this case consists of running around blowing a whistle. I'd say you couldn't make this up, but clearly you can.

Excellent work Doc!  I'm glad you've been paying attention.

What records does Geno hold other than longest tube socks worn into the 21st century?

It's simple.  Show some respect for the players that have made Johnny history.  72 threes is 72 threes any way you slice it.  One day Avery "3 point record holder" Patterson will be justifiably telling his grandchildren about his glorious record breaking glory days as a Redmen while you'll be telling yours about your glory days as a top rated Johnny internet poster.

Thank you for pointing out the difference in neck shapes as an easy way to differentiate the Tenor from the Alto. That has been very helpful to me. Now if you could only help me to know the difference between the soprano and a shiny clarinet,  the bassoon and the oboe, and the french and english horns, I'd be in business.

P.S.  You overrate the Brecker brother way more than I overrate Avery "3 point record holder" Patterson, Brother.

P.S.S.  Peter, Omar Cook was some bad advice and one season away from having an NBA career.  Geno plays in Ubekistan or somewhere.  Cook could run the legnth of the court in the time it takes Geno to go from the baseline to the nearest foul line.  Cook was way, way, way better in his one season than Lawrence ever was.  Of this I'm sure.  However, to the best of my knowledge, Geno never landed a low blow during a contest.

Bird played tenor too you wannabe Phil Schaap.

Miles Davis (featuring Charlie Parker): 'Round Midnight
Track'Round Midnight
GroupMiles Davis (featuring Charlie Parker)
CDCollector (Prestige 7044)
Buy Track
Musicians:
Miles Davis (trumpet), Charlie Parker (tenor sax), Sonny Rollins (tenor sax), Philly Joe Jones (drums), Percy Heath (bass), Walter Bishop (piano).
Composed by Thelonious Monk

Charlie Parker (with Miles Davis): Milestones
TrackMilestones
GroupMiles Davis All-Stars
CDBest of the Complete Savoy & Dial Studio Recordings (Savoy SVY 17120)
Buy Track
Musicians:
Charlie Parker (tenor sax), Miles Davis (trumpet), John Lewis (piano), Nelson Boyd (bass), Max Roach (drums).
Composed by Miles Davis
.

P.S.S.  Peter, Omar Cook was some bad advice and one season away from having an NBA career.  Geno plays in Ubekistan or somewhere.  Cook could run the legnth of the court in the time it takes Geno to go from the baseline to the nearest foul line.  Cook was way, way, way better in his one season than Lawrence ever was.  Of this I'm sure.  However, to the best of my knowledge, Geno never landed a low blow during a contest.

I hope Dwight Hardy has a green light this season.  The fact that Avery holds any kind of record is just sad.  Cook had more TALENT than Geno.  I don't know if you can say he's better; hard to compare.  Cook had talent around him, and he just pouted and chucked and turned the ball over.  His skill was passing, but he thought his skill was shooting.  Boy, it sure wasn't.

One thing I think we can definitively say is that Cook was not way way way better.  He wasn't even way better.  This is my opinion, of course; Omar Cook made me a more serious basketball fan - I had to quantify why a guy who averaged 15 points and 8 assists looked like he sucked that hard.  Omar Cook was an affront to good basketball.  I hope he's enjoying Serbia.

Bird played tenor

As stated, I realized long  that you are an utter nice person, which is why I ignore you. Charlie Parker was an alto saxophone player. The end. That he may have occasionally be c redited as a tenor player does not change either that fact or the fact that you're a pseudo intellectual dilettante who has absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

http://www.charlie-bird-parker.com/ 
"This Page is a tribute to the greatest alto  saxophonist of all time"

http://saxophoneinstrument.com/charlie-parkers-king-alto-saxophone.htm
"Charlie Parker was undoubtedly one of the, if not THE greatest alto saxophonist of American Classical Music"

http://ezinearticles.com/?Charlie-Parker-Bio-Alto-Saxophonist-Legend&id=2583352
"Alto saxophonist Charlie Parker was one of the most influential jazz musicians of all time"

And so on. So to recap: You're a nice person. Please to be #$%^ing off.

Excellent work Doc!  I'm glad you've been paying attention.

What records does Geno hold other than longest tube socks worn into the 21st century?

It's simple.  Show some respect for the players that have made Johnny history.  72 threes is 72 threes any way you slice it.  One day Avery "3 point record holder" Patterson will be justifiably telling his grandchildren about his glorious record breaking glory days as a Redmen while you'll be telling yours about your glory days as a top rated Johnny internet poster.

Thank you for pointing out the difference in neck shapes as an easy way to differentiate the Tenor from the Alto. That has been very helpful to me. Now if you could only help me to know the difference between the soprano and a shiny clarinet,  the bassoon and the oboe, and the french and english horns, I'd be in business.

P.S.  You overrate the Brecker brother way more than I overrate Avery "3 point record holder" Patterson, Brother.

P.S.S.  Peter, Omar Cook was some bad advice and one season away from having an NBA career.  Geno plays in Ubekistan or somewhere.  Cook could run the legnth of the court in the time it takes Geno to go from the baseline to the nearest foul line.  Cook was way, way, way better in his one season than Lawrence ever was.  Of this I'm sure.  However, to the best of my knowledge, Geno never landed a low blow during a contest.

I would highly highly bet that the ONLY person in the world who tells their grandkids about AP's 72 3s, INCLUDING AP himself, is Carmine Abbatiello.

Hopefully not from prison due to stalking Avery Patterson.

Avery Patterson sucked and was the worst kind of player - one with an attitude and who was LAAAAAZY, plain and simple.  Anyone who doesn't realize that needs to remove their head from their arse.

There;s a reason he didn't even pick up at a LOW D-1 after St. John;'s...or are the 300+ D1 coaches all nice persons too, CA?

How is this germane? In the course of that discussion, Carmine argued that all aesthetic judgments are equal, so that despite my 30 years of education and experience as a saxophone player, his opinion about the technical and aesthetic expertise of saxophone players was just as valid as mine, because  outside the scientific realm his "less educated opinion is just as valid" as anyone else's.

And yet here, when asked (and unable) to defend his ludicrous opinions about Avery Patterson - perhaps the worst shooting guard in SJ history - Carmine's fall back is exactly the opposite position, that his opinion is more valid than anyone else's merely because of his experience, which experience in this case consists of running around blowing a whistle. I'd say you couldn't make this up, but clearly you can.

You are right here Doc and I stand corrected.  The judgement of art and guard play is subjective and the opinion of one person on these topics is just as valid as those of another.  My officiating and your music studies renders our opinions no better than those of others on these topics.

Frankly, it was meant for the Kid only as I didn't care for the way he responded to my post with a pissy "Have you ever coached or played organized basketball?" response.

As stated, I realized long  that you are an utter nice person

So to recap: You're a nice person. Please to be #$%^ing off.

If I didn't know better, I might conlude that these are thinly veiled attempts at making me feel badly and hurting my feelings.

Be careful Doc or you might get a slap on the limp wrist from Dave.

Since I've reduced your arguments to slander and name calling.  I smugly declare victory.

Avery sucked!  End of story and hopefully thread.  Good grief.

the more i read his posts the more obvious it became that either one of three things is happening here...1) carmine is baldi, 2) carmine is a huge baldi fan, 3) carmine is related to baldi....hes instigating lol...i cant wait till him and baldi actually have an argument...might end up being the most epicly ridiculous thread in all internet history

You are right here Doc and I stand corrected.  The judgement of art and guard play is subjective and the opinion of one person on these topics is just as valid as those of another.  My officiating and your music studies renders our opinions no better than those of others on these topics.

Not surprisingly, you draw exactly the wrong conclusion. The arts are no less susceptible to understanding through wisdom and education than are any other areas of learning. Dillitantes such as yourself want to believe the opposite because it validates your otherwise ignorant opinions. As for guard play, you are free to believe that the only thing that distinguishes Magic Johnson from John Starks is the opinion of the person watching them play, just as I am free to point out that you have to be a nice person to believe such claptrap.

Since I've reduced your arguments to slander and name calling.  I smugly declare victory.

You smugly declared victory 10 posts ago and have added nothing to the conversation since. For my part I recognize that some mutts are so stupid that they only respond to the boot and thus deserve kicking.