Kyle Anderson - F - St. Anthony's - Paterson, NJ - UCLA

Quote from: MCNPA on July 26, 2011, 06:22:19 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on July 26, 2011, 04:35:03 PM

I have said it all along, I think he stays home and goes to Seton Hall.

I don't think it is out of the question.  I think he might have a rough time there with little supporting talent, but that's his decision. If SJU loses out on him. I still dont think we are going to lose a step moving forward.  The Hall losing out on him means big trouble for them.  He's their Darius Miles or Sylvan Landesberg.  No sweat for us.  Still want to see him here though.

Have to disagree.   It seems like Steve has spoiled fans already.    SJU has made tremendous inroads in only 1 year.  It is landing terrific talent.  But so far nobody "top 30".  So far no McD AA's.     You CAN'T say losing a consensus top FIVE player many consider "yours to lose" to another school doesn't cost you a step moving forward.  You can't say, "oh, we'll just go grab us ANOTHER top 5 player instead".   

There's a REASON Kyle Anderson is a consensus top 5 player.   Despite the nitpicking about quickness, everyone knows he's "that" talented.   Even at Steve's "magical level" of recruiting, being THIS close to landing a top 5 player is still going to be as rare as a yeti sighting.   When you get this strong a strike on your line and DON'T land them in your boat, it IS a HUGE step lost for your program.   HUGE.

A "HUGE" step lost?  I wouldn't go that far....  But it would certainly be a step lost.  Garnering Anderson's services continues our momentum, as well as put the nation on notice that we're a serious player when our staff set their sights on a recruit.  Not to mention, Anderson is probably assured a spot on the McDonald's A-A team. 

By the way, Anderson currently isn't a consensus top 5 player.  The only site or publication that has him amongst their top 5 is Rivals.  At least, that is the only one I can recall.  I'll say by the time the post-summer rankings come out then there is pretty good chance he'll be a "consensus" top 5 recruit.

IMO, that in itself,  to go along with his myriad skills, makes him an important recruit. 

I agree partially cr, but don't think is as big a blow as you might think.

I don't think that SJU suffers a huge blow talent-wise if we lose him.  I think there is certainly some big dividends by landing the kid though.  You have to remember the track that SJU is on now compared to where we were.  Uconn won more titles with nary a top 10 kid than most schools in recent memory, and bunches of the kids in the lower 100 ranking. 

I think maybe that perception-wise for some it might hurt us,mbut considering where we have been and looking at the kids we're strong with over the next few years, I think we're in really great shape regardless.  What landing Kyle Anderson does, certainly does put us at a different level with respect to national recognition recruiting-wise.  It puts other schools on watch and garners a lot more attention for the program amongst bball fans.

I am still quite confident that he will choose SJU.  I still think that SJU offers the most to Kyle and he can shine more here than the others on his list with the guys that Lavin has surrounding him.  If we do lose him, it won't kill us, but landing him certainly has big benefits.

Seems like we're practically thinking along the same lines. 

crgreen, how does anyone know that what kind of player he'll be at the next level?

He's a top 5 recruit, and one that will guarantee nothing for St.John's.
We have enough talent right now to make a final four run in two years.

Adding yet another swingman to a team that already has Harkless, Pointer, Garrett and Sampson
is overkill. This team needs size. I could care less if they land this kid. The fact that he's even looking at the Hall
is a strike against him. If he chooses them, he'll be the one who is sorry. Not us.

While it's true you never know what a player will turn out to be at the next level, the simple fact is, with a top 5 ranking, you do.  You may not know about 2 levels down the road, but top 5 HS to College, the experts pretty much nail that one on the head:

Here's what I mean:

Last 10 years Consensus (RSCI)  top 5 guys

2002:  Amare Stoudemire, Carmelo Anthony, Ray Felton, Rashad McCants, Chris Bosh.  MAYBE you can feel Felton/McCants aren't quite the pro's you thought they'd be.  But at the "next level" from their high school rankings, they won an NCAA title.

2003:  LeBron, Luol Deng, Shannon Brown, Kendrick Brown, Nedudi Ebi.    Three Straight to the NBA.  One a lottery after his frosh year.  One a first rounder after this 17pt jr. year, who's got two NBA rings (and HE'S the "disappointment!)

2004: Dwight Howard, Shaun Livingston, Al Jefferson, Josh Smith and Rudy Gay.  All but Gay straight to the NBA.

2005:  Josh McRoberts, Monta Ellis,  Martell Webster, Tyler Hansbrough, Louis Williams.   McBob is the starting PF for the Indiana Pacers.  Monta Ellis starts for the Warriors.  Webster starts for the Blazers.   Psycho T was a 4 year consensus All American, College Player of the year and NCAA Champion.  Williams skipped college, and is a 6 year NBA vet.

2006:  Greg Oden, Kevin Durant, Spencer Hawes,  Ty Lawson, and Brandon Wright.

2007:  OJ Mayo, Kevin Love, Eric Gordon, Michael Beasley and a tie for 5th - Kyle Singler and Derrick Rose.   Singlers the only one not yet in the pros, and he's got an NCAA title.

2008:  Brandon Jennings, Jrue Holliday, Tyreke Evans, Samardo Samuels, Demar Derozan.   Three are starting PGS in the NBA.  Demar is a 17 a game 2 year starter in the NBA.  Samuels is the "disappointment" - he only started 10 games as a rookie this year, after 17/7 at Louisville last year....

2009: Derick Favors, Demarcus Cousins, John Wall, Avery Bradley, John Henson.  Three lottery picks after 1 year of college, 1 top 20 pick after one year of college, and one sure lotto after 2 yrs, who stayed  for a shot at a title next year (or more likely worried about the lockout).

2010:   Harrison Barnes, Jared Sullinger, Kyrie Irving, Brandon Knight, and Tobias Harris.   Irving was the #1 overall Draft pick, Knight #8, Harris #19.  Sullinger and Barnes would likely have been lotto if hey'd come out.

2011:  The incomings for this year:  Anthony Davis at KY, Austin Rivers at Duke, Michael Gilchrist at KY, Bradley Beal at Florida, Quincy Miller at Baylor.   Yes, I WOULD trade any one of our recruits for any of those 5....

Consensus top 5 HS recruits are virutially ALWAYS high impact players.   Most top 10 kids are.   Top 30 - 40?  There'll be some high impact, and some contributors - and maybe one or two flops.   Once you get out of the top 25 its a crapshoot - the difference between the average #30 kid and the average #50 kid is not going to be as huge as it is between the #10 and #30 player...

I didn't say losing KA would be catastrophic.   I agree Steve Will bring in a pretty good player in his place if  we lose him.   Just that you can't say we wouldn't lose a step if he went elsewhere.    Those opportunities don't come along all that often.   In addition to the tangible asset of that quality of player as a frosh in your lineup, there's also the recruiting mystique.   We're getting top 40 talent now.    Other than KA, the players in 2012 we might get are also that level - and thats exceptional.  But - It will be the 2013 class before we even have a shot at a top 5 again.   Not lose a step?  In terms of the perception of the upcoming classes that St. Johns is a truly elite destination (top 5 talent destination), we lose at least a YEAR.

Thats all I meant.

Quote from: crgreen on July 27, 2011, 03:34:17 AM

Have to disagree.   It seems like Steve has spoiled fans already.    SJU has made tremendous inroads in only 1 year.  It is landing terrific talent.  But so far nobody "top 30".  So far no McD AA's.     You CAN'T say losing a consensus top FIVE player many consider "yours to lose" to another school doesn't cost you a step moving forward.  You can't say, "oh, we'll just go grab us ANOTHER top 5 player instead".   

There's a REASON Kyle Anderson is a consensus top 5 player.   Despite the nitpicking about quickness, everyone knows he's "that" talented.   Even at Steve's "magical level" of recruiting, being THIS close to landing a top 5 player is still going to be as rare as a yeti sighting.   When you get this strong a strike on your line and DON'T land them in your boat, it IS a HUGE step lost for your program.   HUGE.

Agree to disagree with your assertion that a fisherman who brings a yeti to the side of the boat takes a step backward by not getting the yeti aboard. The yeti is a land based creature, so even hooking one is an accomplishment, and if the line breaks while its being gaffed or some other mishap occurs there's no shame in that. In William Faulker's The Old Man and the Yeti the fisherman protagonist (called Boo Radley) fails to land the enormous abominable snowman he hooks while trolling for the Loch Ness monster, which sasquatch is subsequently eaten by chupacabras as he tows the beast back to shore, and yet TOMATS is generally regarded as a story of human courage in the face of overwhemling adversity.

Of greater concern however, is the formatting of your post. The post contains 145 words: nearly one fifth (18 percent), 26 words out 145, have special formatting. Nine words (6 percent) are in ALL CAPS, including THIS and IS. Seventeen words (11 percent) are included within quotation marks, including 5 words and phrases in "scare quotes."  I sometimes advise readers who seemingly have difficulty understanding simple points that Im attempting that I'll underline the important bits so that they can go back and reread them at their leisure, but I do that to be rude and obnoxious. Here you are talking to my boon companion MCN as if he is a slow child to whom you are explaining how to tie his shoes, painstakingly capitalizing LACES and FEET. Are you attempting to be rude as well? Or is it TO BE ride, or to be RUDE. To be capitalized, or not be to capitalized, that is the question.

fun facts:

- The phrase top 5 appears three times, once in scare quotes, once in quotation marks, and once with no special formatting. In that phrase the number 5 appears both as the numeral and the word FIVE, in all caps, ie, top FIVE and top 5. Whereas the phrase top 30, using only numerals and lower case letters, appears but only in "scare quotes"

- In the phrase "you can't say," which begins the 7th and 8th sentences, can't is in all caps in the 7th and lower case in the 8th. So presumably although it is not not permissible to say either thing that follows, but you CAN'T say the first thing louder.

- Both can't and don't appear in ALLCAPS; doesn't, however, doesn't. Does that mean that you CAN'T capitalize doesn't, or that you can capialize it but DON'T choose to, or that you can, but one doesn't.

- Huge appears twice, both times in ALL CAPS. That's big.

- thisNthat: "That" appears in SCARE QUOTES. THIS appears in "all caps."

LOL.   I see your point.  There is just a tad of Jose Ferrer in "A Case of Libel" in the fish in the boat reference.   But I should warn folks on the board - that IS my writing style - it's not going to change.   But the great thing about the boards is the democracy of it all.   If you don't like what I have to say, or even if you only don't like the "format" of what I write......you don't have to read it 

Great post Crgreen with the consensus top 5's thanks for doing that research!

Great post Crgreen with the consensus top 5's thanks for doing that research!

that was all from memory

Quote from: MCNPA on July 26, 2011, 06:22:19 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on July 26, 2011, 04:35:03 PM

I have said it all along, I think he stays home and goes to Seton Hall.

I don't think it is out of the question.  I think he might have a rough time there with little supporting talent, but that's his decision. If SJU loses out on him. I still dont think we are going to lose a step moving forward.  The Hall losing out on him means big trouble for them.  He's their Darius Miles or Sylvan Landesberg.  No sweat for us.  Still want to see him here though.

Have to disagree.   It seems like Steve has spoiled fans already.    SJU has made tremendous inroads in only 1 year.  It is landing terrific talent.  But so far nobody "top 30".  So far no McD AA's.     You CAN'T say losing a consensus top FIVE player many consider "yours to lose" to another school doesn't cost you a step moving forward.  You can't say, "oh, we'll just go grab us ANOTHER top 5 player instead".   

There's a REASON Kyle Anderson is a consensus top 5 player.   Despite the nitpicking about quickness, everyone knows he's "that" talented.   Even at Steve's "magical level" of recruiting, being THIS close to landing a top 5 player is still going to be as rare as a yeti sighting.   When you get this strong a strike on your line and DON'T land them in your boat, it IS a HUGE step lost for your program.   HUGE.

Anyone who thinks KA was Lavin's to lose is just blowing smoke, it was/is just never like that.

Quote from: kjd01067 on July 27, 2011, 11:09:28 AM

Great post Crgreen with the consensus top 5's thanks for doing that research!

that was all from memory

Naw  - had completely forgotten Shannon Brown was that highly ranked! 

Quote from: Poison on July 27, 2011, 08:02:39 AM

crgreen, how does anyone know that what kind of player he'll be at the next level?

He's a top 5 recruit, and one that will guarantee nothing for St.John's.
We have enough talent right now to make a final four run in two years.

Adding yet another swingman to a team that already has Harkless, Pointer, Garrett and Sampson
is overkill. This team needs size. I could care less if they land this kid. The fact that he's even looking at the Hall
is a strike against him. If he chooses them, he'll be the one who is sorry. Not us.

While it's true you never know what a player will turn out to be at the next level, the simple fact is, with a top 5 ranking, you do.  You may not know about 2 levels down the road, but top 5 HS to College, the experts pretty much nail that one on the head:

Here's what I mean:

Last 10 years Consensus (RSCI)  top 5 guys

2002:  Amare Stoudemire, Carmelo Anthony, Ray Felton, Rashad McCants, Chris Bosh.  MAYBE you can feel Felton/McCants aren't quite the pro's you thought they'd be.  But at the "next level" from their high school rankings, they won an NCAA title.

2003:  LeBron, Luol Deng, Shannon Brown, Kendrick Brown, Nedudi Ebi.    Three Straight to the NBA.  One a lottery after his frosh year.  One a first rounder after this 17pt jr. year, who's got two NBA rings (and HE'S the "disappointment!)

2004: Dwight Howard, Shaun Livingston, Al Jefferson, Josh Smith and Rudy Gay.  All but Gay straight to the NBA.

2005:  Josh McRoberts, Monta Ellis,  Martell Webster, Tyler Hansbrough, Louis Williams.   McBob is the starting PF for the Indiana Pacers.  Monta Ellis starts for the Warriors.  Webster starts for the Blazers.   Psycho T was a 4 year consensus All American, College Player of the year and NCAA Champion.  Williams skipped college, and is a 6 year NBA vet.

2006:  Greg Oden, Kevin Durant, Spencer Hawes,  Ty Lawson, and Brandon Wright.

2007:  OJ Mayo, Kevin Love, Eric Gordon, Michael Beasley and a tie for 5th - Kyle Singler and Derrick Rose.   Singlers the only one not yet in the pros, and he's got an NCAA title.

2008:  Brandon Jennings, Jrue Holliday, Tyreke Evans, Samardo Samuels, Demar Derozan.   Three are starting PGS in the NBA.  Demar is a 17 a game 2 year starter in the NBA.  Samuels is the "disappointment" - he only started 10 games as a rookie this year, after 17/7 at Louisville last year....

2009: Derick Favors, Demarcus Cousins, John Wall, Avery Bradley, John Henson.  Three lottery picks after 1 year of college, 1 top 20 pick after one year of college, and one sure lotto after 2 yrs, who stayed  for a shot at a title next year (or more likely worried about the lockout).

2010:   Harrison Barnes, Jared Sullinger, Kyrie Irving, Brandon Knight, and Tobias Harris.   Irving was the #1 overall Draft pick, Knight #8, Harris #19.  Sullinger and Barnes would likely have been lotto if hey'd come out.

2011:  The incomings for this year:  Anthony Davis at KY, Austin Rivers at Duke, Michael Gilchrist at KY, Bradley Beal at Florida, Quincy Miller at Baylor.   Yes, I WOULD trade any one of our recruits for any of those 5....

Consensus top 5 HS recruits are virutially ALWAYS high impact players.   Most top 10 kids are.   Top 30 - 40?  There'll be some high impact, and some contributors - and maybe one or two flops.   Once you get out of the top 25 its a crapshoot - the difference between the average #30 kid and the average #50 kid is not going to be as huge as it is between the #10 and #30 player...

I didn't say losing KA would be catastrophic.   I agree Steve Will bring in a pretty good player in his place if  we lose him.   Just that you can't say we wouldn't lose a step if he went elsewhere.    Those opportunities don't come along all that often.   In addition to the tangible asset of that quality of player as a frosh in your lineup, there's also the recruiting mystique.   We're getting top 40 talent now.    Other than KA, the players in 2012 we might get are also that level - and thats exceptional.  But - It will be the 2013 class before we even have a shot at a top 5 again.   Not lose a step?  In terms of the perception of the upcoming classes that St. Johns is a truly elite destination (top 5 talent destination), we lose at least a YEAR.

Thats all I meant.

Excellent post.  I would not, however, trade a bunch of our recruits for the top five this year. I feel most of our guys are not too far off from them and will be around longer.  Beal is great, but how far off is Harrison at the college level?  I posted a video of Harkless taking to Quincy Miller repeatedly. 

I think a soph D'Angelo Harrison will be better than Rivers or Beal and whatever guards are available in 2012 or 2013. 

 I'm pretty sure you'll think I'm crazy to say this, but I do believe this was somewhat desired (Thomas decommiting) by Steve Lavin and here's why.  SJU does not have many schollies to give this year (2 or 3), and I do think they rate Anderson, Gathers etc. a lot higher than Thomas so this is not necessarily a bad thing (imo).

Quote from: MCNPA on July 26, 2011, 06:22:19 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on July 26, 2011, 04:35:03 PM

I have said it all along, I think he stays home and goes to Seton Hall.

I don't think it is out of the question.  I think he might have a rough time there with little supporting talent, but that's his decision. If SJU loses out on him. I still dont think we are going to lose a step moving forward.  The Hall losing out on him means big trouble for them.  He's their Darius Miles or Sylvan Landesberg.  No sweat for us.  Still want to see him here though.

Have to disagree.   It seems like Steve has spoiled fans already.    SJU has made tremendous inroads in only 1 year.  It is landing terrific talent.  But so far nobody "top 30".  So far no McD AA's.     You CAN'T say losing a consensus top FIVE player many consider "yours to lose" to another school doesn't cost you a step moving forward.  You can't say, "oh, we'll just go grab us ANOTHER top 5 player instead".   

There's a REASON Kyle Anderson is a consensus top 5 player.   Despite the nitpicking about quickness, everyone knows he's "that" talented.   Even at Steve's "magical level" of recruiting, being THIS close to landing a top 5 player is still going to be as rare as a yeti sighting.   When you get this strong a strike on your line and DON'T land them in your boat, it IS a HUGE step lost for your program.   HUGE.

I disagree. Yeah, it would suck if he goes elsewhere but honestly, I think Anderson is looking to be one and done, possibly two year player. With the way Lavin is recruiting, I almost would rather have a 4 year player ranked in the 30-50 range, than KA. I said almost, because I agree, KA is a talent that Lavin is not going to find in another 2012 recruit.

If we lose him, it's potentially a small step lost, but to say it's a huge step lost for our program is a little over the top. With the way Lavin is running this team, St. John's is only going to become more and more attractive to the top 5-10 recruits in the nation, and I believe we will eventually get ours even if it doesn't happen to be Kyle Anderson.

Quote from: crgreen on July 27, 2011, 03:34:17 AM

Quote from: MCNPA on July 26, 2011, 06:22:19 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on July 26, 2011, 04:35:03 PM

I have said it all along, I think he stays home and goes to Seton Hall.

I don't think it is out of the question.  I think he might have a rough time there with little supporting talent, but that's his decision. If SJU loses out on him. I still dont think we are going to lose a step moving forward.  The Hall losing out on him means big trouble for them.  He's their Darius Miles or Sylvan Landesberg.  No sweat for us.  Still want to see him here though.

Have to disagree.   It seems like Steve has spoiled fans already.    SJU has made tremendous inroads in only 1 year.  It is landing terrific talent.  But so far nobody "top 30".  So far no McD AA's.     You CAN'T say losing a consensus top FIVE player many consider "yours to lose" to another school doesn't cost you a step moving forward.  You can't say, "oh, we'll just go grab us ANOTHER top 5 player instead".   

There's a REASON Kyle Anderson is a consensus top 5 player.   Despite the nitpicking about quickness, everyone knows he's "that" talented.   Even at Steve's "magical level" of recruiting, being THIS close to landing a top 5 player is still going to be as rare as a yeti sighting.   When you get this strong a strike on your line and DON'T land them in your boat, it IS a HUGE step lost for your program.   HUGE.

I disagree. Yeah, it would suck if he goes elsewhere but honestly, I think Anderson is looking to be one and done, possibly two year player. With the way Lavin is recruiting, I almost would rather have a 4 year player ranked in the 30-50 range, than KA. I said almost, because I agree, KA is a talent that Lavin is not going to find in another 2012 recruit.

If we lose him, it's potentially a small step lost, but to say it's a huge step lost for our program is a little over the top. With the way Lavin is running this team, St. John's is only going to become more and more attractive to the top 5-10 recruits in the nation, and I believe we will eventually get ours even if it doesn't happen to be Kyle Anderson.

Really think we're getting spoiled by how good SL is recruiting.   Steve doesn't regret signing  Baron Davis or even Jerome Moiso - Both 2 and dones....and any JaRon Rush laments have noting to do with ON court issues.

Many thought Baron, Gadzuric, Rush, Moiso and Kapono were one and done recruits out of high school.  Steve got 2 years out of both Baron and JaRon, and 4 each out of Gadz and Kapono...

Take the best talent.  Period.

Really think we're getting spoiled by how good SL is recruiting.   Steve doesn't regret signing  Baron Davis or even Jerome Moiso - Both 2 and dones....and any JaRon Rush laments have noting to do with ON court issues.

Many thought Baron, Gadzuric, Rush, Moiso and Kapono were one and done recruits out of high school.  Steve got 2 years out of both Baron and JaRon, and 4 each out of Gadz and Kapono...

Take the best talent.  Period.

Yes, that is true, you have to take the best talent if you can. However, I just don't see where it would be a HUGE step lost for our program. A small step lost? probably, but as your above post shows, I highly doubt this will be the last time we are on a top recruits short list.

You're right cr, we are getting spoiled by it.  It is already better than almost all SJU fans would have dreamed.  I think many of us are at a point where we feel it's gravy if SJU lands Anderson.  You've got to understand that we have been fighting for scraps for sooo long now that it all tastes like filet mignon.  It's pretty much the reverse of what Lavin had at UCLA where he had absurd expectations.  Here at SJU, he has already surpassed our early recruiting expectations to the point where it is almost a given that if SJU doesn't land Anderson, Lavin will have some ore top 50 kid in the coffers and we're pretty good with that.  We have not yet gotten to the point where a loss like Anderson really stings.

You had said prior that we have to change our mentality now that Lavin is on board, and have higher expectations.  I think that right now, a lot of us are just enjoying the fact that our roster is already exponentially better than it has been and the ride is going to be really fun.  I see where you're coming from with Anderson.  I think we're going to land him because Lavin has focused in him and he's pretty tuned-in and it seems confident.  In a couple years when we're making deep runs into the tourney again, expectations surely go up.  Right now landing Anderson is just another step up the ladder, and you can't fall down on the way up. 

That said, I know Lavin Is fully tuned on winning the Kyle Anderson sweepstakes, and I feel good about that heading down the stretch.

CRG -
I see why you started in 2002.  2001 must have been the worst incoming class ever.  My god.  A top 5 of Eddy Curry, Kelvin Tolbert, DeJuan Wager, Tyson Chandler (the exception) and Ousmane Cisse.  With Kwame at 6.  Ugly.

The tweet is actually per Raphielle Johnson of NBE Basketball.... 

Kevin Willard, Steve Lavin, Ben Howland & Billy Donovan watching Kyle Anderson in Playaz/I-Can All Stars game right now.

http://twitter.com/#!/CerasolisGhost/status/96345351237287936

If you're going to list the top ranked recruits over the last few years, you need to also list their success at the college level, because that is all we care about here.

I still stand by my original post, I'll take Kemba Walker over John Wall.

Quote from: kjd01067 on July 27, 2011, 11:09:28 AM

Great post Crgreen with the consensus top 5's thanks for doing that research!

that was all from memory

I love cr's posts but Lav may have to get a restraining order.    just kidding cr.  Your posts are full of concrete info and good perspective.  Thanks for joining the Johnny family.

If you're going to list the top ranked recruits over the last few years, you need to also list their success at the college level, because that is all we care about here.

I still stand by my original post, I'll take Kemba Walker over John Wall.

  From a strictly college career, of course i'd take Kemba.  The real question is whether, having the choice out of high school, which player would you take if it could only be one.  Based on talent, the answer is clearly Wall IMO.  Hindsight is 20/20.  As a college coach you have to take the best player, the sure thing.  That was Wall. 

What else matters outside of a college career?