Quincy Roberts

Quote from: peter on October 18, 2010, 10:04:53 AM

Remember that one of the knocks on Harrison was his defensive intensity.  And depending on who else they recruit (i.e., they may not want to have 4 alpha-scorers on the floor at the same time for chemistry/ ball-movement purposes), staff may want to bring Harrison off the bench as a straight gunner, at least in his first year.

Hard to say without getting a feel of how Lavin wants to run this team.

According to Scout Harrison is the 18th ranked 2 guard in his HS class. Where would QR, a 20 yo 6'5" fourth year college junior rank among those same HS guards?  He'd have to be pretty high, no? He might not shoot the three as well as Harrison (who knows, I haven't seen him) but you have to figure QR plays more D and is a better rebounder and passer. He'll also have the advantage of a year in the system and  four years in the weight room. There's going to be a lot of new faces next year and somebody's going to have to lead by example - my money's on QR.

Shooting the basketball is shooting the basketball, wherever you are.  With the national AAU tourneys, it's not like you can say he's playing against crappy competition.  How has quincy done lately?  Oh wait, he hasnt played AT ALL.

How has quincy done lately?  Oh wait, he hasnt played AT ALL.

As opposed to the medical redshirts who play all the time you mean?

Quote from: Tha Kid on October 18, 2010, 11:14:45 AM

How has quincy done lately?  Oh wait, he hasnt played AT ALL.

As opposed to the medical redshirts who play all the time you mean?

So you have your faith in a guy who barely played as a frosh, and sat out his next year as a medical redshirt, and who came in as a mediocre 3 star who the entire fanbase whinged about since he was an afterthought to all of the top propsects Norm swung and missed on, over a guy who is ranked top 25 in the country by some recruiting services, and may be the best shooter in the nation?

I thought you were smarter than that...

Quote from: Foad on October 18, 2010, 10:39:33 AM

Quote from: Tha Kid on October 18, 2010, 10:26:58 AM

I'm sorry but prior to anointing Quincy ANYTHING, let's see him perform.

Yes by all means, let's not annoint D'Angelo Harrison ANYTHING until we see him perform. Oh wait, not Harrison, Quincy Roberts, let's not annoint him ANYTHING, but by all means let's annoint some HS senior you never heard of until last week as a sure fire starter on a team with 6 scholarships left to fill. I take it you've been down in Texas scouting Harrison. How was the weather?

I actually like Quincy's game but I simply do not see how he will get PT this year. Hardy and Horne are probably the teams 2nd and third best players. Quincy def will be an asset next year but if he does not get any run this season he will have basically sat around for two years.

Even if he doesn't get any PT - and who knows what happens, people are saying he looks great - he will have had a full year of practice against upper classmen in Dunlap's system and a full year of Rico Hines weight training. I hate to keep beating a dead horse, but that's how Louie managed to field a good team year after year - by relying on 4 year players he only put on he court for two. Maybe that's the mom and pop in me talking, but lots of good coaches lose with freshmen - Calhoun lost with Price and Thabeet, and Calimari couldn't win a NC starting 5 first round draft picks - and lot of mediocre ones (Jim Larranga) win with seniors

I thought you were smarter than that...

Is it ad hominem time already? Fine. I didn't think you were smarter than anything, and that includes rocks.

We've got 9 seniors now. Let's se how much winning thru do. I think an NCAA tourney appearance would be stunning.

Quote from: we are sju on October 18, 2010, 10:45:41 AM

Quote from: Foad on October 18, 2010, 10:39:33 AM

Quote from: Tha Kid on October 18, 2010, 10:26:58 AM

I'm sorry but prior to anointing Quincy ANYTHING, let's see him perform.

Yes by all means, let's not annoint D'Angelo Harrison ANYTHING until we see him perform. Oh wait, not Harrison, Quincy Roberts, let's not annoint him ANYTHING, but by all means let's annoint some HS senior you never heard of until last week as a sure fire starter on a team with 6 scholarships left to fill. I take it you've been down in Texas scouting Harrison. How was the weather?

I actually like Quincy's game but I simply do not see how he will get PT this year. Hardy and Horne are probably the teams 2nd and third best players. Quincy def will be an asset next year but if he does not get any run this season he will have basically sat around for two years.

Even if he doesn't get any PT - and who knows what happens, people are saying he looks great - he will have had a full year of practice against upper classmen in Dunlap's system and a full year of Rico Hines weight training. I hate to keep beating a dead horse, but that's how Louie managed to field a good team year after year - by relying on 4 year players he only put on he court for two. Maybe that's the mom and pop in me talking, but lots of good coaches lose with freshmen - Calhoun lost with Price and Thabeet, and Calimari couldn't win a NC starting 5 first round draft picks - and lot of mediocre ones (Jim Larranga) win with seniors

Again unless Lavin continues at his pace in recruiting, I think Quincy will be valuable next year. Also unlike the past 6 years I have confidence the coach will find a way to play his best players. Since the season has not started  I am just speculating on where Quincy will possibly get his minutes. The only way barring injuries would be to take Stith's minutes away and use Q or Hardy as the backup PG. The problem with that as we have all seen is playing a guy who is not really a point usually does not work out well. Another idea would be going small with DJ at the 4 and playing Q or Horne at the three on occasion? Again barring injuries it will be tough to get him more than token minutes.

Again unless Lavin continues at his pace in recruiting, I think Quincy will be valuable next year. Also unlike the past 6 years I have confidence the coach will find a way to play his best players. Since the season has not started  I am just speculating on where Quincy will possibly get his minutes. The only way barring injuries would be to take Stith's minutes away and use Q or Hardy as the backup PG. The problem with that as we have all seen is playing a guy who is not really a point usually does not work out well. Another idea would be going small with DJ at the 4 and playing Q or Horne at the three on occasion? Again barring injuries it will be tough to get him more than token minutes.

I wasn't talking about this year as much as next. This year it'll be hard to take minutes away from the seniors. As much as Lavin might not be under outside pressure to win this year - he'll have the longest honeymoon in history - obviously he'd like nothing more than to succeed right away. The only way that happens is if one or two of Norm's players step up. If Horne (or Hardy but I think maybe he breaks out in a real offense) plays like he did last year it wouldn't surprise me to see QR get some minutes. Ideally he'd play point - ideally meaning he'd have the skills to play point, not that they just stick him there, because with his size he'd be something. He wasn't awful at the point two years ago - he wasn't good either - but that was as a frosh on an awful team. If he could handle it I'd give him minutes over Stith.

While I truly hope he improves, how can anyone say that Roberts wasn't awful at the point?

He couldn't dribble, and every pass was a turnover.

Come on now.

While I truly hope he improves, how can anyone say that Roberts wasn't awful at the point?

He couldn't dribble, and every pass was a turnover.

Come on now.

Wow you're right these are bad numbers

2.5 pts pg / 1.3 reb pg / 54 ass - 51 TOs / 35% FG / 25 % 3pt

Oh wait, that was David Cain as a sophomore, sorry. Quincy Roberts averaged 5 points, 3 rebounds, shot 36 from the floor and 28 from 3 and and playing out of position as a freshman on what was perhaps the worst SJ team ever had 36 assists and 51 TOs, slightly less than Cains (1 to 1 vs 1.4 to 1). So no, he wasn't awful, and at least 36 passes weren't TOs, and clearly he could dribble a little bit since he was playing the point in the BE.

So to recap: I said he wasn't awful and he wasn't.

Foad, sometimes it sounds like you know a lot about the game, and other times it sounds like you're just trying way too hard to be right.

1. Cain was a natural pg. Roberts is not. He's not going to grow into a great pg like Cain did, because the talent that a pg like Cain brings with him can't be taught.

Roberts might become a serviceable 2 guard. Better than that I hope, but that is not an appropriate comparison.

Sju has had a lot of shooting guards try to run the point. James Scott, Derek Brown, Marcus Hatten, etc. Try comparing apples to apples.

2. To say Roberts was playing on the
worst SJU team is simply wrong. Were you in a coma from 03-06?

You support arguments with numbers, but they're the wrong numbers in this case.

Foad, sometimes it sounds like you know a lot about the game, and other times it sounds like you're just trying way too hard to be right.

1. Cain was a natural pg. Roberts is not. He's not going to grow into a great pg like Cain did, because the talent that a pg like Cain brings with him can't be taught.

Roberts might become a serviceable 2 guard. Better than that I hope, but that is not an appropriate comparison.

Sju has had a lot of shooting guards try to run the point. James Scott, Derek Brown, Marcus Hatten, etc. Try comparing apples to apples.

2. To say Roberts was playing on the
worst SJU team is simply wrong. Were you in a coma from 03-06?

You support arguments with numbers, but they're the wrong numbers in this case.

What I said was that QR wasn't awful as a freshman PG. Wasn't awful doesn't mean he was great or good or even adeqaute. It means he didn't stink. Which the numbers tend to prove. If you'd like to try and disprove my statement by doing something other than saying yes he was awful, have at it. In the meanwhile, you got bupkis. Neither did I say that QR would grow into a great PG. What I said was that ideally he could play point, because we need a back up PG and he could get minutes there. If we lived in an ideal world, among other things, my bong would have a vagina.

Foad, he can't distribute the ball or dribble it. At least he couldn't.
I'm hoping that he's worked on his game, and that he's ready to be a great 6th man in the backcourt/frontcourt.

That said, 36 assists and 51 turnovers is terrible. Let's hope it's behind hind him and that his hard work
is about to be paid off.

I fully expect him to get every chance to play. We have one player down, and another in Rob Thomas who isn't expected to play much at all. Plus, we're going to lose a couple of guards for a period of time because we just do with this group.

do you really believe 36 assists to 51 turnovers isnt terrible? bc you're the same guy whos opinion of bad was nba teams finishing in the top 3 of the league...quincy is not a pg, nor should garner a single minute at that position unless he has drastically changed his game...idk why everyones first thought when theres a pg shortage is to hand over the reins to the sg...pg and sg are completely different positions that require a completely different mindset and skillset

If Quincy plays any significant minutes at the point we are in big trouble. Hardy wasn't very good at the point last year but he was alot better then Quincy. We got a new staff so Quincy has a new opportunity. I think he starts off behind both seniors. Maybe he could get a few minutes at the 3. I think he will be ok but unless their is an injury I don't think he will be in the rotation.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Q start right away at the two.  I thought he looked terrible playing the point, but that wasn't his natural position.  He's a bouncy 6'5 wing that can stroke it from three.  He looked at his best--and this is a guy that was betting against St. John's at the time--keeping the ball alive on the offensive side of the ball and jumping passing lanes/disrupting passing with his length, and spotting up for set perimeter shots.
I like the form QR has on his jumper. 

With that written, D'Angelo Harrison has an extrememly exciting highlight tape.  His form looks awesome, his release is fast, and he is extremely efficient with his footwork.  He has an impressive repertoire of moves for a high school kid.  He really reminds me of Scottie Reynolds.  His handle looks tight as well. 

It is very common these days for kids to excel at dunking/finishing and also long-range shooting, but not have the middle game that makes players great.  I think Q falls into this category.  Harrison is one of the rare few that doesn't.

This season will really show us where Q stands.  I expect him to get some time at both wing positions and play better than ever with a true fast-paced game. 

my bong would have a vagina.

I might not get this imagery out of my mind for a very long time.

The best point guard play we've had at SJU in the last 7 years was Malik Boothe for the last 7-8 games of the year.

Let's hope he stays healthy, and we don't have to entertain a back up plan.

That said Lavin isn't stupid. He's not going to play Q at the point because he can't play the point to save his life.

You guys are funny. Not funny ha ha, funny can't read.

"Ideally [quincy] he'd play point - ideally meaning he'd have the skills to play point, not that they just stick him there, because with his size he'd be something. He wasn't awful at the point two years ago - he wasn't good either - but that was as a frosh on an awful team. If he could handle it I'd give him minutes over Stith."

Allow me to parse this for the illiterates in the audience.

It begins with a hypothetical statement. It says that in an ideal world - a world in which rivers of Johnny Walker Black flow down cocaine mountains - Quincy Roberts "would have the skills" of a point guard. Note the conditional "would." In the ideal world he would have such skills, which skills he does not now have.

It goes on to say that two years ago, as a freshman playing out of position, QR "was not good" although he was not "awful," a word meaning "atrocious; exceptionally bad; abominable."  This is I suppose a matter of opinion - whether his play was somewhat better than awful and rose to the level of "not good. A debatable point, although I notice no one debates it - debate requires the application of fact to logic, both of which are in short supply here. Anyway, if he was in fact "atrocious" he was still better than some - examples supplied: Tyshwan Edmunson and David Cain - and so I leave it to you philologists to discover new words for players like those two who were quantums worse than those you deem appalling and atrocious.

And then finally "if he could handle it" - if he did possess the skills - I would give him Malik Stith's minutes, because last year Stith impressed me not at all.

Instead of this paragraph, you imagine a different one, which postulates that QR is a point guard, that he has the skills of a a point guard, and that he should be the point guard, which imaginary points you then refute using brilliant rhetoric such as "Nuh uh" and "is not."

Which don't get me wrong is all quite fascinating. But in the meanwhile my suggestion: Instead of all the braying you do you all should learn to read, and then to comprehend what you have read, and then after that to think about it critically. Only then should you move on to typing, which is the least important bit of the whole process of communication.  I realize that many of you are not interested in communication, preferring instead merely the sound of your own voice. To those I say: Nuh uh.

Put the bong down.