Small ball or bruiser ball?

What do you want to see St. John's do this season? Can both work? What would work better? Lets get some discussion going!

I think small ball mostly but I always think you need a legit big man to control the paint on offense and defense. I change my starting lineup almost daily it seems but a lot of people seem to love Polee so I would say a lineup of Boothe, Hardy, DJ, Polee, and Burrell/Coker could work well.

I do prefer a more traditional line up so maybe Boothe, Hardy, DJ, Burrell, Coker...let's hope Boothe can keep defenses honest.  He's our best hope at PG but if he can't shoot I'd rather take my chances with Hardy at PG(assisted by Horne and DJ).

For small ball I like Hardy Horne DJ Brownlee and Burrell.  I'm not sure if Hardy can handle the point full time but that is our best offensive team. 

Haven't seen Polee yet.  I would be surprised if he got in the starting 5 though.

At this point I have full trust in Lavin to put a line-up out there that will win games.  If that means going against the grain and having a small ball type line-up....I'm all for it if we win!  I do think with the addition of only Polee, he makes our possible line-ups much more versatile!

My personal opinion is we should go with a more traditional line-up, but I'm willing to give Lavin time if the smallish line-up is what he think will work.

I think we'll go small.  Our best players are mostly smaller.  We would be a better looking team with our best five on the floor instead of trying to fit into some mold.  The zone can hide mismatches to a degree.

Our bigs really aren't that good.  I'd rather give up a few buckets a game to get more from the offensive side.

Look at what Nova did and DJ way better suited to play the four that Randy Foye ever was.  I can't imagine a PF trying to cover DJ on the other side, but DJ has the size/strength/rebounding to hold his own and even better PF's on the defensive end.

Doesn't sound like there's going to be any room for Stith or Roberts. Lavin hasn't mentioned them once.

Doesn't sound like there's going to be any room for Stith or Roberts. Lavin hasn't mentioned them once.

Has Lavin talked up DJ Kennedy at all? In every interview, Steve seems to always mention the same 3 names. What about Horne?

Lavin has talked about DJ but its just the same rhetoric of he can do it all.

We don't have the bruisers to play bruiser ball.

We don't have the bruisers to play bruiser ball.

I disagree Coker, Burrell, Evans, Brownlee, Thomas...St. John's could play big with 3 of these guys on the court at once.

We have bruisers, but they only bruise each other.

Quote from: STJ11Redmen on November 04, 2010, 09:07:03 PM

We don't have the bruisers to play bruiser ball.

I disagree Coker, Burrell, Evans, Brownlee, Thomas...St. John's could play big with 3 of these guys on the court at once.

If we are counting Brownlee and Thomas as bruisers it's a different story, but at tip-off Rob didn't look in any sort of shape to be on the court in a Big East game and Brownlee is more of a slasher than a bruiser IMO.  I mean, sure we can play a bunch of big men but if we are relying on Coker, Evans and Rob Thomas to give us quality minutes we are going to be in some trouble.  I do however think a lineup of Hardy, Kennedy, Brownlee, Polee and Burrell may be able to work well for us against some of the bigger teams we play.

We have bruisers, but they only bruise each other.

They bruise the backboard and rim too

Quote from: Dave on November 04, 2010, 09:17:16 PM

Quote from: STJ11Redmen on November 04, 2010, 09:07:03 PM

We don't have the bruisers to play bruiser ball.

I disagree Coker, Burrell, Evans, Brownlee, Thomas...St. John's could play big with 3 of these guys on the court at once.

If we are counting Brownlee and Thomas as bruisers it's a different story, but at tip-off Rob didn't look in any sort of shape to be on the court in a Big East game and Brownlee is more of a slasher than a bruiser IMO.  I mean, sure we can play a bunch of big men but if we are relying on Coker, Evans and Rob Thomas to give us quality minutes we are going to be in some trouble.  I do however think a lineup of Hardy, Kennedy, Brownlee, Polee and Burrell may be able to work well for us against some of the bigger teams we play.

Maybe bruiser isn't the best word to convey the message I intended. A big lineup but I do feel Brownlee is a bruiser at the 3. We have some big boys who can play outside.

I just don't think we have the talent or size to go up against big teams and win...so why not beat them running?  Make them put a PF on DJ and try and stay in a man-to-man.  DJ will drive past the PF at will.  Let them try to keep a center on Polee or Brownlee.  I love Brownlee in the open court.

What we do have is a bevy of talented, athletic, and experienced wings.  Let's run with that.  Boothe, Hardy, Horne, DJ and Polee/Brownlee will put five shooters on the floor to beat a zone.

I just don't think we have the talent or size to go up against big teams and win...so why not beat them running?  Make them put a PF on DJ and try and stay in a man-to-man.  DJ will drive past the PF at will.  Let them try to keep a center on Polee or Brownlee.  I love Brownlee in the open court.

What we do have is a bevy of talented, athletic, and experienced wings.  Let's run with that.  Boothe, Hardy, Horne, DJ and Polee/Brownlee will put five shooters on the floor to beat a zone.

I agree 110%

Now Marillac do you think that applies against all our opponents across the board? Or is there times we will get burnt going small?

Quote from: Marillac on November 05, 2010, 12:51:07 AM

I just don't think we have the talent or size to go up against big teams and win...so why not beat them running?  Make them put a PF on DJ and try and stay in a man-to-man.  DJ will drive past the PF at will.  Let them try to keep a center on Polee or Brownlee.  I love Brownlee in the open court.

What we do have is a bevy of talented, athletic, and experienced wings.  Let's run with that.  Boothe, Hardy, Horne, DJ and Polee/Brownlee will put five shooters on the floor to beat a zone.

I agree 110%

Now Marillac do you think that applies against all our opponents across the board? Or is there times we will get burnt going small?

what five shooters do you see out of that lineup? i count three

Quote from: Marillac on November 05, 2010, 12:51:07 AM

I just don't think we have the talent or size to go up against big teams and win...so why not beat them running?  Make them put a PF on DJ and try and stay in a man-to-man.  DJ will drive past the PF at will.  Let them try to keep a center on Polee or Brownlee.  I love Brownlee in the open court.

What we do have is a bevy of talented, athletic, and experienced wings.  Let's run with that.  Boothe, Hardy, Horne, DJ and Polee/Brownlee will put five shooters on the floor to beat a zone.

I agree 110%

Now Marillac do you think that applies against all our opponents across the board? Or is there times we will get burnt going small?

I'm sure there will be times when we will need to bring in the beef.  In a perfect world we'd start 2 g's, 2 f's and a center, but our best players are Boothe and a handful of wings.  Our bigs are average at best.  Our strength is with our wings. 

The five shooters, Mase, would be the three good ones you spotted and then Boothe and either Brownlee or Polee.  I expect Boothe to really pick up his game this year.  I don't think he'll be a gunner from deep, but he'll shoot well enogh to have to be defended.  I think he'll be our most improved player.

The problem with this years team is that is has a little talent but it is pretty much all in the same spot. We have some talented wings but have little to no talent up front or at the point. The difference this year is I have confidence that the coaching staff will find a way to play are best players at the same time. Unfortunately that will always result in unorthodox lineups. This whole guess what lineup we will use was more interesting when Norm was the coach because some of the people posting their ideas about lineups and rotations were actually more knowledgable than the coach. This coaching staff will find a way to play the best players we have. It is a flawed roster however and I wouldn't expect miracles. If Lavin and staff get us to the tourney he did a great job. Patience is needed!

I expect Boothe to be transformed.  He's been plagued by a horrible coaching staff and injuries.  He played so well at the end of last season IMO, and I think he was better than most for the rest of it.  We beat Providence if we have him and that gives us 18 wins for the year.  I think we only go as far as Boothe takes us this year.  I think he can be a borderline All-Big East player.  A big reason Boothe looked so slow on defense last year was because of  half-assed pressure D and mostly the ineptitude of our big men in reacting.  Collectively, we must have had the worst reaction time and footwork of any front court in the country and that KILLS the guards defensively when there is no shot-blocker guarding the basket. 

Remember no player suffers more from a poor coaching staff than the PG--he's an extension of the coach on the floor.  Norm wanted them to run, but did not install the infrastructure.  It's like the option game in football, you don't just run the option once in a while--you are either an option team or not.  The same goes for running.  I already notice from the terminology the kids are using now that this infrastructure is being put put in place by Dunlap and co. 

Going small is what I've been screaming for for three years with this roster.  DJ can be just like Lazar from Marquette at the four.  We can also steal some points by pressing and trapping with more athletes, eliminate missed FT's from our bigs like Evans (40% career FT shooter), and get some easy points in transition.
I'm  not sure how long we can run with Polee at center, but Brownlee at center is more than enough.  He's a strong kid that won't get moved off the block.