Lavin and "Norm's guys"

It seems that Lavin has made a concentrated effort to distance himself from Norm's core players. Hardy and Brownlee both bench players have taken on the role as go to players and Stith has taken a prominent role in the rotation. Meanwhile Norm favorites Horne, Boothe, Evans and Burrell have played considerably less and DJ seems to be an afterthought on offense. Does anyone think this is a coincidence? Now Hardy and Brownlee are clearly working out, but I think DJ needs to have a bigger role and Burrell should play more.

It seems that Lavin has made a concentrated effort to distance himself from Norm's core players. Hardy and Brownlee both bench players have taken on the role as go to players and Stith has taken a prominent role in the rotation. Meanwhile Norm favorites Horne, Boothe, Evans and Burrell have played considerably less and DJ seems to be an afterthought on offense. Does anyone think this is a coincidence? Now Hardy and Brownlee are clearly working out, but I think DJ needs to have a bigger role and Burrell should play more.

Fun from RM agrees with you:

"What's interesting to me is that according to the commentators last night, Lavin calls Boothe the "heart and soul" of the team. They said that over and over. It's odd to sit the team's heart and soul at crunch time, in favor of a kid you counseled to transfer a couple of months ago. It could be Lavin is already playing for next year or it could be he's seasoning Stith for January or it could be he's distancing himself from Norm by favoring players who've only been in the system a year (Brownlee Hardy Stith > Boothe Horne Burrell). But clearly something's going on, because he's making some interesting and dare I say demented personnel decisions. "

I think it's coincidence.  Honestly I think it's more likely that it's harder to reprogram "norm's guys" bc Hardy, Brownlee, and Stith only had 1 year of Norm.  So my guess is they are "getting the new system" quicker than "Norm's guys."

Polee played less than "Norm's guys" last night, so that would certainly go against your theory, right?

You really have it the opposite. What did Brownlee, Hardy, and Stith all have in common last season?

They didn't get a chance.

They are all more inclined to buy into what Lavin is asking them to do where as the other guys are used to another way. This isn't even my opinion its truth.

It could also be that Norm's original core of players are... limited, offensively.

You really have it the opposite. What did Brownlee, Hardy, and Stith all have in common last season?

They didn't get a chance.

They are all more inclined to buy into what Lavin is asking them to do where as the other guys are used to another way. This isn't even my opinion its truth.

Dave, how was that opposite? That was my point.

Quote from: we are sju on December 08, 2010, 01:56:41 PM

It seems that Lavin has made a concentrated effort to distance himself from Norm's core players. Hardy and Brownlee both bench players have taken on the role as go to players and Stith has taken a prominent role in the rotation. Meanwhile Norm favorites Horne, Boothe, Evans and Burrell have played considerably less and DJ seems to be an afterthought on offense. Does anyone think this is a coincidence? Now Hardy and Brownlee are clearly working out, but I think DJ needs to have a bigger role and Burrell should play more.

Fun from RM agrees with you:

"What's interesting to me is that according to the commentators last night, Lavin calls Boothe the "heart and soul" of the team. They said that over and over. It's odd to sit the team's heart and soul at crunch time, in favor of a kid you counseled to transfer a couple of months ago. It could be Lavin is already playing for next year or it could be he's seasoning Stith for January or it could be he's distancing himself from Norm by favoring players who've only been in the system a year (Brownlee Hardy Stith > Boothe Horne Burrell). But clearly something's going on, because he's making some interesting and dare I say demented personnel decisions. "

Sorry, threads there are sometimes too long and I miss some posts. Didn't mean to hijack your thoughts.

Quote from: Foad on December 08, 2010, 02:11:08 PM

Quote from: we are sju on December 08, 2010, 01:56:41 PM

It seems that Lavin has made a concentrated effort to distance himself from Norm's core players. Hardy and Brownlee both bench players have taken on the role as go to players and Stith has taken a prominent role in the rotation. Meanwhile Norm favorites Horne, Boothe, Evans and Burrell have played considerably less and DJ seems to be an afterthought on offense. Does anyone think this is a coincidence? Now Hardy and Brownlee are clearly working out, but I think DJ needs to have a bigger role and Burrell should play more.

Fun from RM agrees with you:

"What's interesting to me is that according to the commentators last night, Lavin calls Boothe the "heart and soul" of the team. They said that over and over. It's odd to sit the team's heart and soul at crunch time, in favor of a kid you counseled to transfer a couple of months ago. It could be Lavin is already playing for next year or it could be he's seasoning Stith for January or it could be he's distancing himself from Norm by favoring players who've only been in the system a year (Brownlee Hardy Stith > Boothe Horne Burrell). But clearly something's going on, because he's making some interesting and dare I say demented personnel decisions. "

Sorry, threads there are sometimes too long and I miss some posts. Didn't mean to hijack your thoughts.

Great minds fish alike.

Was there anyone---including the opposition---who didn't KNOW that Hardy would be taking the last shot?  Hardy cannot shoot over a defender.  He may be a great 3 pt threat in practice, and when he can get an open look, but he struggles when he is defended.  I would have looked to Brownlee or DJ in that spot.  I would have also preferred Boothe in the game instead of Stith.

Was there anyone---including the opposition---who didn't KNOW that Hardy would be taking the last shot?  Hardy cannot shoot over a defender.  He may be a great 3 pt threat in practice, and when he can get an open look, but he struggles when he is defended.  I would have looked to Brownlee or DJ in that spot.  I would have also preferred Boothe in the game instead of Stith.

So you thought that we could have gotten a better look with 5 seconds left than the guy who up to that point was 10-17 shooting.

Yes because he is a 6'2" shooting guard whose overall shooting percentage has not been that good thus far this season.  He is easily stopped when the defense is focused on him, and it seemed obvious to me at the time that he would be the guy getting the ball for the last shot.

Yes because he is a 6'2" shooting guard whose overall shooting percentage has not been that good thus far this season.  He is easily stopped when the defense is focused on him, and it seemed obvious to me at the time that he would be the guy getting the ball for the last shot.

With 5 seconds left in a college game, if you are able to get the ball into the hands of your hottest shooter who has a decent look you can't really complain.

The fact is, this game should of never even of come down to a shot like that from Hardy.  Win or lose, the way this game came down to it, is/was not going to be a defining moment for this team.  If that was the case, than the ASU win should of propelled us to learning from our mistakes and gotten us to the next level on how to win games.  Something we have not seen from these guys the last few years consistently.  Even if we win last night, as I hope and pray we do every night, pretty much every one of these comments have been dead on for this team since the season started.  The comments for why we lost would of held true even if we won last night by one rather than losing by 1.  For me, with this group whether they win by 1 or 30 I am just happy. 

Lavin is correct by saying today in the DN "the mistakes costing us now are correctable"  however only if the players want to correct them. 

Quote from: Dave on December 08, 2010, 02:15:51 PM

You really have it the opposite. What did Brownlee, Hardy, and Stith all have in common last season?

They didn't get a chance.

They are all more inclined to buy into what Lavin is asking them to do where as the other guys are used to another way. This isn't even my opinion its truth.

Dave, how was that opposite? That was my point.

It's not that Lavin is distancing himself from Norm's guys its that the newer players have more to prove to new coach since they didn't get the shot before.