St. John's - program and fan base expectations

As far as potential of the programs as well as legacy...

Elite of the elite (nuthin really needs to be said here)
Duke
UNC
Kentucky
Kansas
UCLA
Indiana
UConn

Elite (programs that have the ability to be Top 25 year in and out)
St. John - yes, we belong. The committment the school has gone and made in the last 1 1/2 year has been a revelation.
G'town - will always have juice.
L'Ville - second in state, but still mad support.
Nova - same spot as Gtown and St. John.
Arizona - closest to being in the first group.
Maryland - quiet since winnin it all, but still has the foundation.
NC State - third school in the state, but 70s and early 80s show it can be a force, strong base.
Purdue - second school in the state, but year in and out a force even if they dont get beyond the hurdle.
Michigan - still reelin from Fab Five fallout, but still has the makins. Second sport on campus.
Ohio State - close to being in the first group if it wudn't the second sport on campus.
Gonzaga - Monson and Few showed a force can be made, but can it be sustain for 'nother generation?

Surely they is some I'm missin out on, but from the top of my head these are it.

As far as potential of the programs as well as legacy...

Elite of the elite (nuthin really needs to be said here)
Duke
UNC
Kentucky
Kansas
UCLA
Indiana
UConn

Elite (programs that have the ability to be Top 25 year in and out)
St. John - yes, we belong. The committment the school has gone and made in the last 1 1/2 year has been a revelation.
G'town - will always have juice.
L'Ville - second in state, but still mad support.
Nova - same spot as Gtown and St. John.
Arizona - closest to being in the first group.
Maryland - quiet since winnin it all, but still has the foundation.
NC State - third school in the state, but 70s and early 80s show it can be a force, strong base.
Purdue - second school in the state, but year in and out a force even if they dont get beyond the hurdle.
Michigan - still reelin from Fab Five fallout, but still has the makins. Second sport on campus.
Ohio State - close to being in the first group if it wudn't the second sport on campus.
Gonzaga - Monson and Few showed a force can be made, but can it be sustain for 'nother generation?

Surely they is some I'm missin out on, but from the top of my head these are it.

I don't know man. Michigan is about as elite as UNLV. It's fake elite. Maryland was once elite. Now they are a pretty good program.

Syracuse has got to be considered an elite program. They are right there with Uconn, Kansas and everyone else. Almost every singe year they are ranked. AND in the rare season where they aren't ranked, they are still very difficult to beat. Just ask any SJU coach. Even Louie. That's an elite program.

How many programs have had more consecutive winning seasons than Syracuse?

Nah you right. They'd be in the "Elite of the Elite." 'Cuse that is.

Michigan State, Texas, Florida are also "programs that have the ability to be Top 25 year in and out" and probably are higher in the pecking order than SJU

Here's an interesting question:

What's the best program never to win it all?

Illinois? Purdue? Pittsburgh? It's a tough one. It was once Syracuse.

I feel like elite also refers to the culture surrounding a program. Even though we haven't won any NCAA tournaments, we go back over 100 years. Before I decided to go to St. John's I would hear men in their 40's and 50's especially in my family talking about the glory days and how fun it was to root for St. John's then. We are not DePaul or Providence who are mid majors in a major conference. We are a legitimate Big East school. When you think St. John's you think basketball. I just graduated from Marist last year and it was fun to root for a D 1 team, but I always longed for that something extra. I wanted to watch my school on ESPN consistently. I didn't want to be laughed at for having to root for the Marist women's team (among top mid major programs) because our men's team sucked. I actually remember watching Marist play St. John's a few years back around Christmas time for the Holiday Classic I believe. One of our guys Jay Gavin was on fire and it was back and forth in the end. St. John's ended up winning, but I would always dream of being able to go to the garden and see fellow fans on such a big stage. Well, I now attend St. John's, and I'm so excited for the season. The culture surrounding this team is certainly elite and they have instilled countless memories in its fans from long ago.

Michigan State, Texas, Florida are also "programs that have the ability to be Top 25 year in and out" and probably are higher in the pecking order than SJU

No doubt, no doubt.

I'll put State in the first group.
Second group Fla and Tex belong cause while they good, they aint No 1 on they campus.

You're not an elite program if you've never been to a FF.

You're not an elite program if you've never been to a FF.

St. John's was...

We also  made it to the NCAA finals{ a long time ago} and lost to Kansas.

As far as potential of the programs as well as legacy...

Elite of the elite (nuthin really needs to be said here)
Duke
UNC
Kentucky
Kansas
UCLA
Indiana
UConn

Elite (programs that have the ability to be Top 25 year in and out)
St. John - yes, we belong. The committment the school has gone and made in the last 1 1/2 year has been a revelation.
G'town - will always have juice.
L'Ville - second in state, but still mad support.
Nova - same spot as Gtown and St. John.
Arizona - closest to being in the first group.
Maryland - quiet since winnin it all, but still has the foundation.
NC State - third school in the state, but 70s and early 80s show it can be a force, strong base.
Purdue - second school in the state, but year in and out a force even if they dont get beyond the hurdle.
Michigan - still reelin from Fab Five fallout, but still has the makins. Second sport on campus.
Ohio State - close to being in the first group if it wudn't the second sport on campus.
Gonzaga - Monson and Few showed a force can be made, but can it be sustain for 'nother generation?

Surely they is some I'm missin out on, but from the top of my head these are it.

This list makes no sense. There does not seem to be any guidline used in making this list. It almost seems like you just listed the programs you heard of. I think it would have been more relevant if you would have just listed the socks in your sock drawer.   

As far as potential of the programs as well as legacy...

Elite of the elite (nuthin really needs to be said here)
Duke
UNC
Kentucky
Kansas
UCLA
Indiana
UConn

Elite (programs that have the ability to be Top 25 year in and out)
St. John -
G'town -
L'Ville -
Nova -
Arizona -
Maryland - 
NC State - 
Purdue -
Michigan -
Ohio State - 
Gonzaga -
Surely they is some I'm missin out on, but from the top of my head these are it.

There are many ways to try to quantify elite.

So for fun- how about looking at final four appearances

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Men's_Division_I_Final_Four_appearances_by_school

18 North Carolina, UCLA*
15 Duke
14 Kentucky
13 Kansas
10 Ohio State*
8 Indiana, Michigan State, Louisville
6 Arkansas, Cincinnati, Michigan**, Oklahoma State
5 Georgetown, Houston, Illinois
4 Arizona, Connecticut, Florida, Kansas State, LSU, Oklahoma, Syracuse, UNLV, Utah, Villanova*
3 California, Iowa, Marquette, Memphis**, N.C. State, San Francisco, Texas
2 Baylor, Bradley, Butler, CCNY, Colorado, Dartmouth, DePaul, Georgia Tech, Holy Cross, La Salle, Maryland, NYU, Oregon State, Providence, Purdue, St. John's, Stanford, Temple, USC, Virginia, West Virginia, Wisconsin

Based on appearances Ohio State belongs in the "Elite of the Elite"

And sorry to say St Johns & Gonzaga not there... but both could be in 5 years !

Defining elite is almost impossible.   I'm a Steve Lavin fan.   But even I don't consider UCLA was "elite" during his run as the UCLA head coach.   And yet....in his 6 years there, the Bruins finished in the top 25 in at least one of the major postseason polls EVERY year.   Only 1 other coach  and 2 other schools accomplished that over that period (Coach K and Duke, and Texas, which changed coaches mid-stream).

So in that respect (relative to everyone else in D-1), could you consider Steve's UCLA program elite over that period?

My personal expectation is that we will win a national championship within the next five years. But if it doesn't happen, I won't be calling for Lavin's head like the UCLA fan base. At least rooting for the team won't be a draining experience like it was during the Norm years. The last time I was this energized about the team was Barkley's last year.

I think we'll be Sweet 16 regulars for years to come. And I think Lavin wins 500 games here before retiring.

The only sports team that has any right to expect a championship is the Yankees. UCLA is delusional if they do. One in the last 30 years means that you are one of many, and in no manor shape or form a dominant program.

I expect to be relevant. That's all, and that's all that any of should expect. I'd be fine a with an NIT season here and there I'd it meant that we were recovering from losing high level talent to the league. If it's good enough for Uconn and SU, it's more than good enough for us.

The only sports team that has any right to expect a championship is the Yankees. UCLA is delusional if they do. One in the last 30 years means that you are one of many, and in no manor shape or form a dominant program.

I expect to be relevant. That's all, and that's all that any of should expect. I'd be fine a with an NIT season here and there I'd it meant that we were recovering from losing high level talent to the league. If it's good enough for Uconn and SU, it's more than good enough for us.

Uh oh.  Time for another mind-set adjustment.  What's good for UConn and SU is MORE than good enuf for SJU?  The Lavinator don't play that....

How is that?

How is that?

"More"  than good enuf kinda implies that less than whats good enuf for those other schools would be good enuf for St. Johns.   Steve Lavin will have fans setting the bar far higher than that VERY shortly.

Quote from: Poison on September 13, 2011, 07:06:49 PM

How is that?

"More"  than good enuf kinda implies that less than whats good enuf for those other schools would be good enuf for St. Johns.   Steve Lavin will have fans setting the bar far higher than that VERY shortly.

He has already set the bar very high. After 7 years of being terrible it's going to take a lot of success to turn this fan base into unappreciative snots. Then again, we are in NY, and no other city can match the intensity of NY. Not on any day.

I agree with CR. Lavin is a winner and I dont believe he will be jumping ship for a better offer. I believe with each passing year our recruits will be even better and the program will escalate. Lavin saw a sleeping giant with SJU. With MSG and the NY media there is no better place for a winning program.