Pelle, Sampson, Garrett Ruled Ineligible for Fall

Quote from: redstorm212 on September 15, 2011, 07:30:58 PM

Anyone know how often players who are ruled ineligible end up sitting out and staying with the team that they committed to? Or do they usually re-open their recruitments?

Aren't the players technically still under scholarship?  The school takes the hit because they're footing the bill for the players to be in school, but they're not yet playing.  Or am I off a bit?

Almost all schools these day have "non-qualifier" rules - that is, if you don't qualify academically, you can't receive your scholarship.  When this same thing happend to Lavin recruit Evan Burns back at UCLA, there were still a few schools around that accepted non-qualifiers.  At UCLA, he couldn't receive the scholarship  funding until he was fully qualified.  At that time, San Diego State had passed a Non Qualifier rule, but it didn't go into effect till the following school year - so in order to be able to afford to attend school while waiting for the Clearinghouse decision, Burns had to enroll at San Diego State, where the tuition could be paid by the scholarship.

six weeks after school started, the Clearinghouse ruled in his favor, and he played as a freshman (was confrence FOY).

I havent had a response to my question as to what changes between now and December for these kids - do they go back to school to complete additional coursework? If so, is it back to high school, or prep schoool, or JC or what?   OR is it like Burns case, where it was a matter of a question about a class he'd already successfully completed, but the Clearinghouse took three months to rule on a challenge as to whether the class itself was viable to complete his minimum core class requirements (it was, and had been for a dozen other D1 athelets from his school in the past).

So does anyone know?   Is it they haven't done enuf work, or is it that there is a question as to the viability of the work that's been done?   Since it's all three who atteneded Rise Academy this summer, it SOUNDS like it's a question as to the Rise classes viability.    I mean, the three students actual high school classes are so disparate as to be ridiculous.   And Garrett is out of Leuzinger and Findlay Prep - they're usually exceptionally good on academics for their prospects...

CR

Besides Burns what other academic casualties did Lavin have at UCLA?

Yes NR did graduate all his players that suited up.  But don't forget Derwin Kitchen and someone else from that class (name escapes me) were also ruled ineligible.

That whole class fell apart. Q.Calhoun lasted a year.

Garrett has suprised me from the beginning.  I thought the 4 were Pelle, Sampson, Nuri and Dom.

Keep in mind guys. The NCAA rule is simply that there are 2 different categories.  1) Qualified and 2) Non-qualified.  The NCAA rule is that if you fall in to no. 2 you need to sit a year, regain eligiblity and then you may be able to get that year back.  Also you do not go on scholly that year.

The Big East rule goes further (ACC, PAC 12, Big 12 also have similar rules).  Simply says you cannot participate in the two big sports, men's basketball and football, if you do not fall into 1.

Those 3 fall into #2..  None have enrolled.  By not enrolling they allow themselves several different avenues including appeal with the opportunity to get qualified later this year.  Too late for fall semester so they will take their shot for December.  Since all 3 failed to qualify technically all 3 NLI's are now null and void.  And by not enrolling they have not endangered their possible SJU futures if worse case scenario they do a prep year or JUCO year.  Now we know why they did not enroll in the summer. 

Quote from: Dan on September 15, 2011, 08:15:11 PM

Out of the three, we REALLY need Pelle.

I agree. I said from the start, Pelle was our most important recruit. Good luck at San Diego St., Fisher will get him eligible

How? can he alter his high school transcripts?

Sadly this is what happens when college sports undermine college academics. People go to certain schools JUST for the sports whether they're on a team or just a fan. Professors give athletes free passes, they have their own tutors not available to non-athletes, etc. Once it is established again that college is for EDUCATION first and sports second, this stuff will continue to happen. How about we tell the kids in the ghetto that no one will recruit you no matter how good you are unless you have good enough grades? I guarantee you inner city school children would try then. The system is setup to promote sports over education. It needs to be reversed and only allow students to be recruited who have solid academic footing for every team in the nation. Really talented at basketball, but you don't care about school? Oh well, have fun playing pickup games and being poor. That's the the cold hard truth.

Why are people thinking Sampson would look to go somewhere else?

CR

Besides Burns what other academic casualties did Lavin have at UCLA?

Well, the biggest was Schea Cotton.  In his case, it again was eventually determined he should have been eligible - he had a learning disability  - doctors verified - that allowed him to be given extra time to complete complete his SATs.  The tests were with full supervision, and with a documented medical release.   The Clearinghouse ruled arbitrarily that even tho virutally every school in the country would accept SAT results under those conditions, they wouldn't.   Schea and his family had to go to court.  It took two and a half years before  the courts initial ruling in his favor was upheld.   He'd won almost immediately (too late for UCLA) and endrolled at UNC Charlotte, when the NCAA appealed and he had to sit a 2nd year.   The NCAA finally lost in superior court, and he was allowed to enroll and play for Mark Gottfried at Alabama (tho they had to sweaat  all the way up till opening day that the NCAA might re-appeal).

Another was as a onetime St. Johns recruit - 7'2 center Josh Moore, out of St. Anthonys in New Jersey (played 3 years there, including the '96 national championship team) - he was a top 50 recruit.   Josh was in Los Angeles for a year post high school as Steve and ULCA tried to get him qualified.   They did (to NCAA standards), but UCLA's admissions office turned him down - he then enrolled at Michigan.  He was later on the Clippers roster for a year.  As a sidenote, Josh is Shaquille O'Neal's cousinl.  BIG family!

Those are the only 3 I can think of (Burns, Cotton, Moore).   A fourth with a similar pattern to Moore was 6'11  260 center Micheal Fey.   Mike was part of the Ced Bozeman, Dijon Thompson, Andre Patterson  #2 ranked recruiting class for Steve, but didn't qualify.   He came down to LA (from Washington State), enrolled in a JC for a year (without playing, to preserve his 4 years eligibilty), then was admitted to UCLA the following year.  He was the starting center as a freshman, lost the job to classmate Ryan Hollins as a soph, regained it as a Junior (put up 9 pts 6 rebs as a Jr under Ben Howland), then injuries and Hollings development lost him the job as a senior.   He was one of 3 Lavin signed players on the Howland team that played Florida for the National Championship in 2006 (Hollins at Center, and Bozeman at SF were both starters on the team, Fey the backup center).

Only other academic casualty I can remember is Matt Barnes, who as a sophmore missed 4 games on academic suspension.

Why are people thinking Sampson would look to go somewhere else?

Jeff Goodman mentioned the possibility.

This is a little embarrassing, and a little more shocking then normal because St. John's tried to get a big name in Jarvis and he ended up being an embarrassment to the school. Then we try to go for the hidden gem and go under the radar with Norm Roberts and that failed. Now we bring in a big name coach who comes out of no where with a top 3 recruiting class which made many people scratch their heads and think something fishy is going on...When something fishy happened with these three player being ineligible critics now scream "I TOLD YOU SO!!!' BUT!!! The good news is that Lavin was accused of many things at UCLA, but a cheater was never one of them, and he never had any major scandals during his tenure. Here is the take away:
1. This is why a Basketball team should never have to recruit double digits players in one season...Where not a football team!
2. The team will be thin during the first half of the season (god forbid one of these players gets injured), but the more important part of the season is during the second semester and with some luck we can get those three players back.
3. Lavin will know how to handle the media and pressure and can do damage control
4. The pressure may actually be a little less because expectations will be lowered and they can take this time to gel and grow together as a team and overcome a little adversity in the process...This may end up being a fun season
5. I blame this on the RED MEN CURSE!!!  ....Sorry I just had to add that....

If it it were up to me, and if it were possible, I would cut all ties and communication with these kids, kindly show them the door, and never welcome them back.  I don't know all the details of their ineligibility, but if they don't have the smarts or discipline to make themselves eligible, I don't want them associated with this university at all.  It's absolutely embarrassing.

Quote from: ras on September 15, 2011, 10:14:55 PM

Why are people thinking Sampson would look to go somewhere else?

Jeff Goodman mentioned the possibility.

That is a done deal I heard tonight - headed back to Brewster

What are the chances any of these guys go through recruiting again? This is complete BS they already committed to us, and we went through all the trouble of signing them, processing them, etc. now we find out they are idiots who don't take school seriously, and they can actually screw US over by going to another school? Of course something like this had to happen...it all seemed way too good to be true for this season. Now we will be right back at the bottom of the BE. Thanks to the 3 complete nice persons.

i think jakaar stays unless he can find another place to play right away. im not sure about pelle. but they can find a (NCAA approved) school this semester take the required classes and be ready in december. i cant understand how this is coach lavins fault. drama queens. some kids need help with school. but now that they dont pass throw them away and find some new mules. classic

dave im trying so hard to bite my tounge right now.

If it it were up to me, and if it were possible, I would cut all ties and communication with these kids, kindly show them the door, and never welcome them back.  I don't know all the details of their ineligibility, but if they don't have the smarts or discipline to make themselves eligible, I don't want them associated with this university at all.  It's absolutely embarrassing.

Thank god it ISN'T up to some one who admits he "doesn't know the details" to make the decsion.

That take alone is "absolutely embarrassing".  Interesting 1st post ever....

dave im trying so hard to bite my tounge right now.

Agreed.

Actually we have a pretty good team. If Garret and Pelle can play in Dec. we will have the needed depth at all positions. I have a lot of faith in Garret, time will tell with Pelle.

Quote from: jumbo_peanuts on September 15, 2011, 10:23:53 PM

If it it were up to me, and if it were possible, I would cut all ties and communication with these kids, kindly show them the door, and never welcome them back.  I don't know all the details of their ineligibility, but if they don't have the smarts or discipline to make themselves eligible, I don't want them associated with this university at all.  It's absolutely embarrassing.

Thank god it ISN'T up to some one who admits he "doesn't know the details" to make the decsion.

That take alone is "absolutely embarrassing".  Interesting 1st post ever....

All I know for sure is that they were ruled ineligible for a reason, and it cost them at least the first half of this season, if not more.


This is what upsets me, is it really that hard to make yourself eligible for college? I mean, come on!!!   You would think that someone who was in line for a scholarship to a great university would do everything in his power to make himself eligible.

And I don't see this as being something that just popped up one morning and came out of nowhere, and the players (and I use that term loosely) had no idea what was going on....

If it it were up to me, and if it were possible, I would cut all ties and communication with these kids, kindly show them the door, and never welcome them back.  I don't know all the details of their ineligibility, but if they don't have the smarts or discipline to make themselves eligible, I don't want them associated with this university at all.  It's absolutely embarrassing.

You take that short-sighted approach and Walter Berry never suit up fo St. John.
Or Boo Harvey never wins five games fo us as a senior.
Or Bootsy Thornton never leads us to a BE championship.

Silly post yo. Silly.