Kentucky - Game Thread

Quote from: realfan on December 03, 2011, 12:05:23 PM

Quote from: mjdinkins on December 03, 2011, 12:03:07 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on December 03, 2011, 09:40:53 AM

Gilchrist has one thing going in his favor.  He always plays harder than the players he's playing against.

Exactly, MCN!  I found that out about Gilchrist while watching him on the AAU circuit.  He was better than the majority of those guys, but he was also outworking 'em.  He's a talented player (needs some work on his jumper), but he also goes hard.  As, you stated....  He's usually going harder than the opposition.  You gotta love those kinda kids.  Some things he'll do may not always show up on the stat sheet.

Quote

A guy like mo Harkless is taller and more talented.  Mo just needs to play with Gilchrists intensity at both ends.  Guys like Pointer and Amir have that fire.  With some seasoning they'll be tough.

Harkless started to show some gumption midway through the second half.  He needs to get a bit stronger and more aggressive.  Quite frankly, he could be a lottery pick in another season or two.  He has that type of talent.  Imagine, if he brought it like Gilchrest, Pointer and Garrett.  Sheesh!

the problem is, due to our situation (THANKS NORM) Moe is forced to play out of position and be a 4, when he should be a 3, where he will play at the next level.  When the cubard is filled and there are more players up front, he will blossom.

Isnt Norms fault that Polee,Ron Roberts,Sampson and Pelle arent here

  So whose fault is it?

 Polee-  His dad
Ron Roberts- i don't know the details, but i'll say Lavin to give Marco a point
Sampson-  Sampson
Pelle- Pelle


 Lets get over it.  They aren't here.  Who cares? Move on.

Quote from: Marco Baldi on December 03, 2011, 12:17:12 PM

Quote from: realfan on December 03, 2011, 12:05:23 PM

Quote from: mjdinkins on December 03, 2011, 12:03:07 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on December 03, 2011, 09:40:53 AM

Gilchrist has one thing going in his favor.  He always plays harder than the players he's playing against.

Exactly, MCN!  I found that out about Gilchrist while watching him on the AAU circuit.  He was better than the majority of those guys, but he was also outworking 'em.  He's a talented player (needs some work on his jumper), but he also goes hard.  As, you stated....  He's usually going harder than the opposition.  You gotta love those kinda kids.  Some things he'll do may not always show up on the stat sheet.

Quote

A guy like mo Harkless is taller and more talented.  Mo just needs to play with Gilchrists intensity at both ends.  Guys like Pointer and Amir have that fire.  With some seasoning they'll be tough.

Harkless started to show some gumption midway through the second half.  He needs to get a bit stronger and more aggressive.  Quite frankly, he could be a lottery pick in another season or two.  He has that type of talent.  Imagine, if he brought it like Gilchrest, Pointer and Garrett.  Sheesh!

the problem is, due to our situation (THANKS NORM) Moe is forced to play out of position and be a 4, when he should be a 3, where he will play at the next level.  When the cubard is filled and there are more players up front, he will blossom.

Isnt Norms fault that Polee,Ron Roberts,Sampson and Pelle arent here

  So whose fault is it?

 Polee-  His dad
Ron Roberts- i don't know the details, but i'll say Lavin to give Marco a point
Sampson-  Sampson
Pelle- Pelle


 Lets get over it.  They aren't here.  Who cares? Move on.

I care! We have 7 players for chrissakes. And we're going to lose alot more games because of it

Just watched the UNC/Kentucky game.  What a battle!  Not sure UNC could have played better, and only lost by a point.  Kentucky is so talented, it's sick.  I think we'll get there, just not for a few years, assuming Lavin can fill the holes with another two solid recruiting classes.

Just watched the UNC/Kentucky game.  What a battle!  Not sure UNC could have played better, and only lost by a point.  Kentucky is so talented, it's sick.  I think we'll get there, just not for a few years, assuming Lavin can fill the holes with another two solid recruiting classes.

Uk didn't play a real good game at all. Unc played some of their best ball and UK still won.  Some of the problem IMO, is Teague.  He's speedy as hell, but gets the offense into bad spots at times.  Does other things real well in the running game.  Regardless, UK beat a fantastic and talented unc team today.

Just watched the UNC/Kentucky game.  What a battle!  Not sure UNC could have played better, and only lost by a point.  Kentucky is so talented, it's sick.  I think we'll get there, just not for a few years, assuming Lavin can fill the holes with another two solid recruiting classes.

It was a pretty good game.  Kentucky withstood UNC's blows and made a good comeback.  Kentucky, as long as Cal is there, will always have the one and done kids (with a handful of kids who'll stay), so they'll be stocked with talent.  I believe we'll have the kids who'll primarily stay for, at least, two years.  So, we can very, well get to that level.  We were there a little over a decade ago, so I don't why we won't be on that level in another season or two.   

  I can't believe the Davis kid was 6' 2" as a junior in high school.  Talk about being handed a lottery ticket...geez.

Quote from: Marco Baldi on December 02, 2011, 10:28:20 PM

Quote from: Poison on December 02, 2011, 10:26:35 PM

I love this staff, and they have proven to develop talent and find the right balance for what they have. That said, a little objectivity never hurt anyone. Sure it may upset some of the homers out there, but basically ignoring the frontcourt was a wrong move here. They will be overmatched by every single BE team in the paint.

Kentucky ate us alive. It wasn't just about their talent. They pushed us around.

I think it was Gilchrist who was laughing at us

That's cute of him since he was the 4th or 5th most effective freshman in the game.  UK's freshman did not play well. Raided Davis who wasn't called on to do anything but use his superior size and length when it was there.

UK loses Jones, Davis, Teague, Miller, Lamb, and possibly Gilchrest at the end of this season.  We bring back literally every single minute played from 2011-2012 AND we add much needed depth and size--with some of that help coming in two weeks.

Moe is better than Gilchrest...he may not have the ceiling athletically, but he is the better college player.  We would beat UK. Ext season and destroy them the two years after that.  Lucky for us the juco ranks always have very good shooters and big men.

Moe is better than Gilchrest?    I think Moe has a future in the NBA, but Gilchrest is a better player.  He may not be a lights out shooter yet, but he's a better defender and he can handle the ball much better than Moe at this point.   I think we'll see Moe really develop in a year when we can use him more on the perimeter in a hybrid forward type of role.   

Quote from: Marillac on December 02, 2011, 11:31:07 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on December 02, 2011, 10:28:20 PM

Quote from: Poison on December 02, 2011, 10:26:35 PM

I love this staff, and they have proven to develop talent and find the right balance for what they have. That said, a little objectivity never hurt anyone. Sure it may upset some of the homers out there, but basically ignoring the frontcourt was a wrong move here. They will be overmatched by every single BE team in the paint.

Kentucky ate us alive. It wasn't just about their talent. They pushed us around.

I think it was Gilchrist who was laughing at us

That's cute of him since he was the 4th or 5th most effective freshman in the game.  UK's freshman did not play well. Raided Davis who wasn't called on to do anything but use his superior size and length when it was there.

UK loses Jones, Davis, Teague, Miller, Lamb, and possibly Gilchrest at the end of this season.  We bring back literally every single minute played from 2011-2012 AND we add much needed depth and size--with some of that help coming in two weeks.

Moe is better than Gilchrest...he may not have the ceiling athletically, but he is the better college player.  We would beat UK. Ext season and destroy them the two years after that.  Lucky for us the juco ranks always have very good shooters and big men.

Moe is better than Gilchrest?    I think Moe has a future in the NBA, but Gilchrest is a better player.  He may not be a lights out shooter yet, but he's a better defender and he can handle the ball much better than Moe at this point.   I think we'll see Moe really develop in a year when we can use him more on the perimeter in a hybrid forward type of role.

Let me clarify. I think Mo has more tools than Gilchrist.  Mo is taller, IMO a better ball handler on the perimeter and has better stroke and range.  Both are good athletes.  Might be better athlete overall but is not a good enough shooter to be a wing at the next level, yet undersized as well.  Gilchrist is strong, athletic and plays ball at 110%.  I think Mo's prospects might be better, but he is right now, far from as game-ready as Gilchrist.  That said, Mo is exactly where he's expected to be as a freshman.  I hope we see 3 or 4 fruitful years where he gains 20 lbs of muscle and turns into the 6'9" inside/outside threat I think he can be.  Mo needs to improve his quickness, get a consistent shooting touch and play 100% at both ends all the time.  A lot of his turnovers are because he dribbles too much in traffic and isn't strong enough to hang onto the ball just yet.  Give him time.  Big upside.  He's having big games, even quietly now.

Given the option of having moe or gilchrist on our team. I take moe every time

Given the option of having moe or gilchrist on our team. I take moe every time

Because he'll be here for 4 years. Or should be

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on December 03, 2011, 03:14:17 PM

Given the option of having moe or gilchrist on our team. I take moe every time

Because he'll be here for 4 years. Or should be

 Even if it was just for this year I would take Moe. Gilchrist needs more years in college than Moe does imo.

Quote from: desco80 on December 03, 2011, 02:35:29 PM

Quote from: Marillac on December 02, 2011, 11:31:07 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on December 02, 2011, 10:28:20 PM

Quote from: Poison on December 02, 2011, 10:26:35 PM

I love this staff, and they have proven to develop talent and find the right balance for what they have. That said, a little objectivity never hurt anyone. Sure it may upset some of the homers out there, but basically ignoring the frontcourt was a wrong move here. They will be overmatched by every single BE team in the paint.

Kentucky ate us alive. It wasn't just about their talent. They pushed us around.

I think it was Gilchrist who was laughing at us

That's cute of him since he was the 4th or 5th most effective freshman in the game.  UK's freshman did not play well. Raided Davis who wasn't called on to do anything but use his superior size and length when it was there.

UK loses Jones, Davis, Teague, Miller, Lamb, and possibly Gilchrest at the end of this season.  We bring back literally every single minute played from 2011-2012 AND we add much needed depth and size--with some of that help coming in two weeks.

Moe is better than Gilchrest...he may not have the ceiling athletically, but he is the better college player.  We would beat UK. Ext season and destroy them the two years after that.  Lucky for us the juco ranks always have very good shooters and big men.

Moe is better than Gilchrest?    I think Moe has a future in the NBA, but Gilchrest is a better player.  He may not be a lights out shooter yet, but he's a better defender and he can handle the ball much better than Moe at this point.   I think we'll see Moe really develop in a year when we can use him more on the perimeter in a hybrid forward type of role.

Let me clarify. I think Mo has more tools than Gilchrist.  Mo is taller, IMO a better ball handler on the perimeter and has better stroke and range.  Both are good athletes.  Might be better athlete overall but is not a good enough shooter to be a wing at the next level, yet undersized as well.  Gilchrist is strong, athletic and plays ball at 110%.  I think Mo's prospects might be better, but he is right now, far from as game-ready as Gilchrist.  That said, Mo is exactly where he's expected to be as a freshman.  I hope we see 3 or 4 fruitful years where he gains 20 lbs of muscle and turns into the 6'9" inside/outside threat I think he can be.  Mo needs to improve his quickness, get a consistent shooting touch and play 100% at both ends all the time.  A lot of his turnovers are because he dribbles too much in traffic and isn't strong enough to hang onto the ball just yet.  Give him time.  Big upside.  He's having big games, even quietly now.

I think I'm in agreement with you then.  Gilchrist is more ready for the pro game at this moment but I would agree that potentially Moe has more tools, because he's longer and with added weight won't be undersized on the next level.  But you hit the nail on the head, really - Moe needs to play at full speed for the entire game.  It's gonna be fun to watch him develop.

Quote from: Marco Baldi on December 02, 2011, 10:28:20 PM

Quote from: Poison on December 02, 2011, 10:26:35 PM

I love this staff, and they have proven to develop talent and find the right balance for what they have. That said, a little objectivity never hurt anyone. Sure it may upset some of the homers out there, but basically ignoring the frontcourt was a wrong move here. They will be overmatched by every single BE team in the paint.

Kentucky ate us alive. It wasn't just about their talent. They pushed us around.

I think it was Gilchrist who was laughing at us

That's cute of him since he was the 4th or 5th most effective freshman in the game.  UK's freshman did not play well. Raided Davis who wasn't called on to do anything but use his superior size and length when it was there.

UK loses Jones, Davis, Teague, Miller, Lamb, and possibly Gilchrest at the end of this season.  We bring back literally every single minute played from 2011-2012 AND we add much needed depth and size--with some of that help coming in two weeks.

Moe is better than Gilchrest...he may not have the ceiling athletically, but he is the better college player.  We would beat UK. Ext season and destroy them the two years after that.  Lucky for us the juco ranks always have very good shooters and big men.

Just wondering if after todays game you'd like to amend your statements that Moe is better than Gilchgrist and as good as Davis and Terrence Jones. Because if you still think that, you're out of your mind.

And btw...why would anyone want to make definitive statements about who is the better college player TEN GAMES INTO THEIR FRESHMAN SEASONS?

And what does the fact that we'll probably be better than Kentucky two years from now have to do with anything?

Quote from: Marillac on December 02, 2011, 11:31:07 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on December 02, 2011, 10:28:20 PM

Quote from: Poison on December 02, 2011, 10:26:35 PM

I love this staff, and they have proven to develop talent and find the right balance for what they have. That said, a little objectivity never hurt anyone. Sure it may upset some of the homers out there, but basically ignoring the frontcourt was a wrong move here. They will be overmatched by every single BE team in the paint.

Kentucky ate us alive. It wasn't just about their talent. They pushed us around.

I think it was Gilchrist who was laughing at us

That's cute of him since he was the 4th or 5th most effective freshman in the game.  UK's freshman did not play well. Raided Davis who wasn't called on to do anything but use his superior size and length when it was there.

UK loses Jones, Davis, Teague, Miller, Lamb, and possibly Gilchrest at the end of this season.  We bring back literally every single minute played from 2011-2012 AND we add much needed depth and size--with some of that help coming in two weeks.

Moe is better than Gilchrest...he may not have the ceiling athletically, but he is the better college player.  We would beat UK. Ext season and destroy them the two years after that.  Lucky for us the juco ranks always have very good shooters and big men.

Just wondering if after todays game you'd like to amend your statements that Moe is better than Gilchgrist and as good as Davis and Terrence Jones. Because if you still think that, you're out of your mind.

And btw...why would anyone want to make definitive statements about who is the better college player TEN GAMES INTO THEIR FRESHMAN SEASONS?

And what does the fact that we'll probably be better than Kentucky two years from now have to do with anything?

This is a college basketball board and you're asking why anyone would compare one of our players to a player on another team?   Gee, I don't know....

And no one was making career long assessments of either player, but it's expected that Gilchrist will go in the first round of this year's draft; I see nothing wrong comparing him to Moe who plays the same position and has similar skills. 

Quote from: tnice on December 03, 2011, 04:43:44 PM

Quote from: Marillac on December 02, 2011, 11:31:07 PM

That's cute of him since he was the 4th or 5th most effective freshman in the game.  UK's freshman did not play well. Raided Davis who wasn't called on to do anything but use his superior size and length when it was there.

UK loses Jones, Davis, Teague, Miller, Lamb, and possibly Gilchrest at the end of this season.  We bring back literally every single minute played from 2011-2012 AND we add much needed depth and size--with some of that help coming in two weeks.

Moe is better than Gilchrest...he may not have the ceiling athletically, but he is the better college player.  We would beat UK. Ext season and destroy them the two years after that.  Lucky for us the juco ranks always have very good shooters and big men.

Just wondering if after todays game you'd like to amend your statements that Moe is better than Gilchgrist and as good as Davis and Terrence Jones. Because if you still think that, you're out of your mind.

And btw...why would anyone want to make definitive statements about who is the better college player TEN GAMES INTO THEIR FRESHMAN SEASONS?

And what does the fact that we'll probably be better than Kentucky two years from now have to do with anything?

This is a college basketball board and you're asking why anyone would compare one of our players to a player on another team?   Gee, I don't know....

And no one was making career long assessments of either player, but it's expected that Gilchrist will go in the first round of this year's draft; I see nothing wrong comparing him to Moe who plays the same position and has similar skills.

"This is a college basketball board and you're asking why anyone would compare one of our players to a player on another team?"

No, that's not even remotely close what I was asking. Read again.

"And no one was making career long assessments of either player, but it's expected that Gilchrist will go in the first round of this year's draft; I see nothing wrong comparing him to Moe who plays the same position and has similar skills."

Again, not even remotely close to what I said. He wasnt "comparing" the two players, he made a definiticive statemnent the one would be a better college player than the other after ten whole entire games.

If you're going to jump in and try to defend someone, at least understand the argument.

Quote from: desco80 on December 03, 2011, 05:34:37 PM

Quote from: tnice on December 03, 2011, 04:43:44 PM

Quote from: Marillac on December 02, 2011, 11:31:07 PM

That's cute of him since he was the 4th or 5th most effective freshman in the game.  UK's freshman did not play well. Raided Davis who wasn't called on to do anything but use his superior size and length when it was there.

UK loses Jones, Davis, Teague, Miller, Lamb, and possibly Gilchrest at the end of this season.  We bring back literally every single minute played from 2011-2012 AND we add much needed depth and size--with some of that help coming in two weeks.

Moe is better than Gilchrest...he may not have the ceiling athletically, but he is the better college player.  We would beat UK. Ext season and destroy them the two years after that.  Lucky for us the juco ranks always have very good shooters and big men.

Just wondering if after todays game you'd like to amend your statements that Moe is better than Gilchgrist and as good as Davis and Terrence Jones. Because if you still think that, you're out of your mind.

And btw...why would anyone want to make definitive statements about who is the better college player TEN GAMES INTO THEIR FRESHMAN SEASONS?

And what does the fact that we'll probably be better than Kentucky two years from now have to do with anything?

This is a college basketball board and you're asking why anyone would compare one of our players to a player on another team?   Gee, I don't know....

And no one was making career long assessments of either player, but it's expected that Gilchrist will go in the first round of this year's draft; I see nothing wrong comparing him to Moe who plays the same position and has similar skills.

"This is a college basketball board and you're asking why anyone would compare one of our players to a player on another team?"

No, that's not even remotely close what I was asking. Read again.

"And no one was making career long assessments of either player, but it's expected that Gilchrist will go in the first round of this year's draft; I see nothing wrong comparing him to Moe who plays the same position and has similar skills."

Again, not even remotely close to what I said. He wasnt "comparing" the two players, he made a definiticive statemnent the one would be a better college player than the other after ten whole entire games.

If you're going to jump in and try to defend someone, at least understand the argument.

I got your argument - "Gilchrist is better, today's game is evidence of that"  and "don't pass judgement on an entire career after 10 games". 

 And, again, I'll say this: He made a prediction.  I'm not sure I even agree with it.  Gilchrist looked pretty damn good today.   He's certainly better playing through traffic than Moe is right now.    And, again - there's nothing wrong with such a statement.   Why do you care if Marillac thinks Moe will have a better college career?   If that's the most ridiculous statement made on the board today than we've reached a new high for rationale discussion.

Thanks Desco...Moe will be a better college player than Gilchest.  I see nothing wrong with predicting that 1/3 of the way.theough their freshman season.  Obviously it can turn out to be the opposite!

Fwiw Moe is now project as the #15 overall pick in the 2013 draft by NBAdraft.net