POINT GUARD

It's ironic but I don't think we'd be that much better with Pelle, Sampson and Garrett. Our backcourt is just not cutting it without a true point and our forwards are being thrown around like rag dolls under the basket.  Lavin likes athletic types but a couple of studs are needed.  We also need a penetrator who makes others around him better.  We're doing it with converted combos as usual.  At least Hardy had something special and demanded attention at all times.  Noone on our roster fits that description.  Don't know how many points we passed up on but every one was a mistake the way I see it. At least Geno Lawrence gave us 4 boards per game and had a handle.  He was also a way better shooter than Lindsey.

I agree we are doing it with combo guards.  I think a guy like Phil Greene will be able to man the PG spot at some point.  It may not be this season, but I think he'll be able to do it during some point of his career.  I also bet Lavin will be mining the recruiting fields for a true PG, as well. 

As, far as Hardy....  He was also a seasoned guy, who could shoot.  Hardy also didn't particularly play well during the early part of last season.  So, I'll give these kids a 'lil more time before comparing them to an All-Big East guy who played four years of college ball.

Geno Lawrence?  He was tough and played about as hard, as he could play.  He was also slow and would rarely take advantage of a fast break situation.  Lawrence's assists-to-turnovers ratio were nearly equal throughout his career, as well.  Maybe, it's me, but I find him to be irrelevant to this conversation. 

Quote from: bobre45 on December 06, 2011, 09:13:50 AM

It's ironic but I don't think we'd be that much better with Pelle, Sampson and Garrett. Our backcourt is just not cutting it without a true point and our forwards are being thrown around like rag dolls under the basket.  Lavin likes athletic types but a couple of studs are needed.  We also need a penetrator who makes others around him better.  We're doing it with converted combos as usual.  At least Hardy had something special and demanded attention at all times.  Noone on our roster fits that description.  Don't know how many points we passed up on but every one was a mistake the way I see it. At least Geno Lawrence gave us 4 boards per game and had a handle.  He was also a way better shooter than Lindsey.

I agree we are doing it with combo guards.  I think a guy like Phil Greene will be able to man the PG spot at some point.  It may not be this season, but I think he'll be able to do it during some point of his career.  I also bet Lavin will be mining the recruiting fields for a true PG, as well. 

As, far as Hardy....  He was also a seasoned guy, who could shoot.  Hardy also didn't particularly play well during the early part of last season.  So, I'll give these kids a 'lil more time before comparing them to an All-Big East guy who played four years of college ball.

Geno Lawrence?  He was tough and played about as hard, as he could play.  He was also slow and would rarely take advantage of a fast break situation.  Lawrence's assists-to-turnovers ratio were nearly equal throughout his career, as well.  Maybe, it's me, but I find him to be irrelevant to this conversation.

Exactly Greene isn't a PG, but he isn't a 2 either.

Quote from: bobre45 on December 06, 2011, 09:13:50 AM

It's ironic but I don't think we'd be that much better with Pelle, Sampson and Garrett. Our backcourt is just not cutting it without a true point and our forwards are being thrown around like rag dolls under the basket.  Lavin likes athletic types but a couple of studs are needed.  We also need a penetrator who makes others around him better.  We're doing it with converted combos as usual.  At least Hardy had something special and demanded attention at all times.  Noone on our roster fits that description.  Don't know how many points we passed up on but every one was a mistake the way I see it. At least Geno Lawrence gave us 4 boards per game and had a handle.  He was also a way better shooter than Lindsey.

I agree we are doing it with combo guards.  I think a guy like Phil Greene will be able to man the PG spot at some point.  It may not be this season, but I think he'll be able to do it during some point of his career.  I also bet Lavin will be mining the recruiting fields for a true PG, as well. 

As, far as Hardy....  He was also a seasoned guy, who could shoot.  Hardy also didn't particularly play well during the early part of last season.  So, I'll give these kids a 'lil more time before comparing them to an All-Big East guy who played four years of college ball.

Geno Lawrence?  He was tough and played about as hard, as he could play.  He was also slow and would rarely take advantage of a fast break situation.  Lawrence's assists-to-turnovers ratio were nearly equal throughout his career, as well.  Maybe, it's me, but I find him to be irrelevant to this conversation.

I agree that we are doing it with combo guards right now, not pure sgs.  And I have confidence that Greene will develop.  He hasn't been awful to this point.

But I also question whether the staff wants a true point guard.  I think we need one, but Dunlap and Lav run that weave on offense that is equally likely to leave the ball in any one of the three guards' hands.  A point guard would help bring the ball up, but then again remember that Lavin prides himself on having a team where whoever catches the rebound can start to bring the ball up. 
I just don't know that having a dominant ball handler is what they want.  It honestly seems to me that the staff wants at least 3 and preferably 4 guys on the offensive end who can handle the ball. 

I think the staff does want a true PG for this class.

Problem is, who's left?

Not familiar with JUCO PG's really but I guess that's an option.

No clue if this is an option or not but the PG from Oklahoma just left the team because he wants to be closer to home (Philly). Chiles has connections in Philly. Not sure if its a match.

Otherwise not really sure what is out there. I really wanted Artis.

Spent all time/work on KA and never had a back up plan.

I think the staff does want a true PG for this class.

Problem is, who's left?

Not familiar with JUCO PG's really but I guess that's an option.

No clue if this is an option or not but the PG from Oklahoma just left the team because he wants to be closer to home (Philly). Chiles has connections in Philly. Not sure if its a match.

Otherwise not really sure what is out there. I really wanted Artis.

Spent all time/work on KA and never had a back up plan.

We had one, Jevon Thomas.

I didn't want to start a new thread about this, but I wanted to see some others discuss this.  I was really surprised during the interview with Lavin during the Detroit Mercy game that Lavin explicitly stated that they wanted to bring in 6 players in the next class.  With only one officially committed, it looks like there will be a lot more players expected to sign for this class.

I didn't want to start a new thread about this, but I wanted to see some others discuss this.  I was really surprised during the interview with Lavin during the Detroit Mercy game that Lavin explicitly stated that they wanted to bring in 6 players in the next class.  With only one officially committed, it looks like there will be a lot more players expected to sign for this class.

He could be and I'm pretty sure he's counting Amir.
We have 7 schollies now (not counting Jamal White)
6 more would bring us to 13 limit.

Quote from: jmattera83 on December 06, 2011, 11:58:53 AM

I think the staff does want a true PG for this class.

Problem is, who's left?

Not familiar with JUCO PG's really but I guess that's an option.

No clue if this is an option or not but the PG from Oklahoma just left the team because he wants to be closer to home (Philly). Chiles has connections in Philly. Not sure if its a match.

Otherwise not really sure what is out there. I really wanted Artis.

Spent all time/work on KA and never had a back up plan.

We had one, Jevon Thomas.

He's a serious academic risk.  If we had him and he wasn't eligible the inmates would go nuts.  It was smart to mutually part ways.

No backup plan for Kyle is the issue here.

I didn't want to start a new thread about this, but I wanted to see some others discuss this.  I was really surprised during the interview with Lavin during the Detroit Mercy game that Lavin explicitly stated that they wanted to bring in 6 players in the next class.  With only one officially committed, it looks like there will be a lot more players expected to sign for this class.

He mentioned that during his interview in the Kentucky game too, and I think when he was on WFAN with Francessa last week.   I'm assuming Garret is part of the new six, plus Wood and if Gathers recommits that's half his class.   

Quote from: dR3w on December 06, 2011, 12:08:56 PM

I didn't want to start a new thread about this, but I wanted to see some others discuss this.  I was really surprised during the interview with Lavin during the Detroit Mercy game that Lavin explicitly stated that they wanted to bring in 6 players in the next class.  With only one officially committed, it looks like there will be a lot more players expected to sign for this class.

He mentioned that during his interview in the Kentucky game too, and I think when he was on WFAN with Francessa last week.   I'm assuming Garret is part of the new six, plus Wood and if Gathers recommits that's half his class.   

Even with those three, there is plenty of room for a PG and hopefully some front court help.  Hopefully Sampson comes as well, although it appears that most here feel that is on the "less likely" side.

Quote from: dR3w on December 06, 2011, 12:08:56 PM

I didn't want to start a new thread about this, but I wanted to see some others discuss this.  I was really surprised during the interview with Lavin during the Detroit Mercy game that Lavin explicitly stated that they wanted to bring in 6 players in the next class.  With only one officially committed, it looks like there will be a lot more players expected to sign for this class.

He could be and I'm pretty sure he's counting Amir.
We have 7 schollies now (not counting Jamal White)
6 more would bring us to 13 limit.

Also have to remember someone may leave( hate to bring it up but it always happens).

Quote from: Moose on December 06, 2011, 12:10:00 PM

Quote from: dR3w on December 06, 2011, 12:08:56 PM

I didn't want to start a new thread about this, but I wanted to see some others discuss this.  I was really surprised during the interview with Lavin during the Detroit Mercy game that Lavin explicitly stated that they wanted to bring in 6 players in the next class.  With only one officially committed, it looks like there will be a lot more players expected to sign for this class.

He could be and I'm pretty sure he's counting Amir.
We have 7 schollies now (not counting Jamal White)
6 more would bring us to 13 limit.

Also have to remember someone may leave( hate to bring it up but it always happens).

Always seems to happen to us but not everywhere or am I just being to negative.

WE win this game easily if we had a take charge PG. 1st half some guys looked lost out there with no leadership. Greene is coming along though

WE win this game easily if we had a take charge PG. 1st half some guys looked lost out there with no leadership. Greene is coming along though

Work in progress, but thought Greene played well tonight. 4 assist and 0 turnovers

Greene didn't throw it away, but he didn't lead either. He runs up the court and pulls back for a half court set. It was painful.

Greene didn't throw it away, but he didn't lead either. He runs up the court and pulls back for a half court set. It was painful.

My opinion exactly. He hasn't been able to make the tough play/pass

Quote from: Poison on December 21, 2011, 10:19:20 PM

Greene didn't throw it away, but he didn't lead either. He runs up the court and pulls back for a half court set. It was painful.

My opinion exactly. He hasn't been able to make the tough play/pass

It will take him time but he has been solid.  Freshman PG playing the position full time for the first time in his career, leading all freshman team of only 6 scholarship players in the toughest conference in America.  Greene will have to get comfortable running the offense before he goes for the spectacular, and I think he's capable of it.  He's got lots of moves like his spin, floater amongst others and can really get to the basket when being aggressively. He has to find that balance of running offensive sets and also being creative with the ball.  He's trying to be safe now.  As he gets more comfortable, he'll take more risks and push the ball to different places a lot more.  Give him time.  He's capable of plenty more than we might be seeing right now.  Nice he starts to own it, it think he'll be quite good
  He's a very capable scorer as well.

Quote from: Poison on December 21, 2011, 10:19:20 PM

Greene didn't throw it away, but he didn't lead either. He runs up the court and pulls back for a half court set. It was painful.

My opinion exactly. He hasn't been able to make the tough play/pass

Right now he's got Stith disease.  Difference is Greene's more athletic and has potential.  Give him some time he's been thrust into being the lead pg because Lindsey jumped ship.

You're not running the offense if all you do is throw it around the perimeter. He's a player on the team. Stith doesn't run the offense either. These guys are in big time trouble. Providence is going to house them.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on December 22, 2011, 01:03:26 AM

Quote from: Poison on December 21, 2011, 10:19:20 PM

Greene didn't throw it away, but he didn't lead either. He runs up the court and pulls back for a half court set. It was painful.

My opinion exactly. He hasn't been able to make the tough play/pass

Right now he's got Stith disease.  Difference is Greene's more athletic and has potential.  Give him some time he's been thrust into being the lead pg because Lindsey jumped ship.

Really don't know if Greene is a long term solution but he has only played 11 games, we all need to see how he progresses to determine if he can run this team.