Getting Nuri back on track

Nuri is much much better than the way he's playing. When I saw him play against Arizona he was explosive and elusive with the ball in his hands. Lately he looks he can't even dribble and he's afraid to put the ball up.

-I think Nuri needs the ball in his hands to be successful

-Nuri is more turnover prone than Sean Evans when dribbling

It's a catch 22. What are some of your solutions to helping Nuri get his confidence back and be the best player he can be. 

Stop posting that he will leave for the NBA after a year or two

All kidding aside, I was most vocal about Nuri not being a superstar and not letting him get mentioned in the same breath as Hardy, Hatten and Bootsy.  His shot looked awful to me...form was gross.  His defense was also very weak and I was not convinced he was a point with how high he plays. 

His shot does look much better in terms of form...he's been to the shot doctor, but the results don't come overnight.  Just like I wasn't ready to annoint him a two-and-done, I am not ready to write him off as a bust.
I think he can a great scoring boost at both guard spots off the bench when the troops arrive.

This season, I think Phil will continue to fight his way to a bigger role at Nuri's expense.  Phil contributes so much more to team's success in every other area besides running the show when compared to Nuri, who is 0-15 from three (0-21 counting scrimmages), averages nearly 4 t.o.'s a game, and misses almost half of his ft's.  Phil is the better athlete and better defender. 

Nuri is so good at getting to the the basket, though.  He needs to start hitting outside shots (or Lavin add some shooters to play around him) and work on his t.o's and ft's to make it so it's not such a sacrifice in other areas to have his playmaking ability on the floor.

This season, I think Phil will continue to fight his way to a bigger role at Nuri's expense.  Phil contributes so much more to team's success in every other area besides running the show when compared to Nuri, who is 0-15 from three (0-21 counting scrimmages), averages nearly 4 t.o.'s a game, and misses almost half of his ft's.  Phil is the better athlete and better defender. 

Enough please with the adoration of Phil Greene. Yes, Lindsey has looked lost the last several games and yes Phil Greene has played better than could have been expected from this class's least heralded recruit. Yes he has a bright future and yes good luck to him.

However,

Lindsey is averaging (in 5 more minutes a game)

13 pts / 5 rebounds / 3 assists

va Greene

6 pts / 2 rebounds / 1.5 assists


Lindsey is shooting

.47 (fg) / .00 (3pt) / .56 (ft)

vs Greene

.39 / .29 / .66


Lindsey has

31 TOs / 14 steals

va Greene

10 / 7


Greene has a better three point percentage, which is still atrocious, and fewer turnovers. Lindsey's numbers are better in every other category. And please do not to be telling me that the offense runs better with either of them in there, because the offense does not run better ever. It stinks.

Greene's numbers

5.8 ppg / 1.5 assists / 2.3 rebounds / .395 - .286 - .66

are slightly favorable to these of this mystery player

4.1 ppg / 1.7 assists / 3.6 rebounds / .339 - .231 - .65

That would be Cedric Jackson, who was as reviled as a player at SJ as there's been in the past 10 years - and rightfully so: he was awful. That he ended up in the NBA bodes well for Phil Greene, if he has the same work ethic. But please to be stop pretending that Greene is anything other than what he is, which is an average freshman.

The stats are meaningless when you lump them all together.
Lindsey is in a funk. He's not recognizing when opposing teams are changing their defense.

He will either learn how to hit a pull up jumper, or he'll find his way to bench, at least for the start of the game.

Foad - great analysis but u f'd up at the end.  Ced jackson was one of marillac's favorite players, and turned out to be the most successful pplayer from that st johns team.  Marillac is gonna rant now about how phil greene WILL BE cedric jackson (and I hope he is).

Look, Nuri is in a funk.  He hasn't played this caliber of competition probably since the aau circuit his senior year of hs which wasn't that recent.  He certainly needs to snap out of it, but I have faith that the staff will help him come around.

Also marillac great pt about the shot doc.  Nuris shot is a work in progress.  Will come around eventually.  If not, he still can be a successful pg if he utilizes his other skills properly.

Quote from: Marillac on December 06, 2011, 02:30:18 AM

This season, I think Phil will continue to fight his way to a bigger role at Nuri's expense.  Phil contributes so much more to team's success in every other area besides running the show when compared to Nuri, who is 0-15 from three (0-21 counting scrimmages), averages nearly 4 t.o.'s a game, and misses almost half of his ft's.  Phil is the better athlete and better defender. 

Enough please with the adoration of Phil Greene. Yes, Lindsey has looked lost the last several games and yes Phil Greene has played better than could have been expected from this class's least heralded recruit. Yes he has a bright future and yes good luck to him.

However,

Lindsey is averaging (in 5 more minutes a game)

13 pts / 5 rebounds / 3 assists

va Greene

6 pts / 2 rebounds / 1.5 assists


Lindsey is shooting

.47 (fg) / .00 (3pt) / .56 (ft)

vs Greene

.39 / .29 / .66


Lindsey has

31 TOs / 14 steals

va Greene

10 / 7


Greene has a better three point percentage, which is still atrocious, and fewer turnovers. Lindsey's numbers are better in every other category. And please do not to be telling me that the offense runs better with either of them in there, because the offense does not run better ever. It stinks.

Greene's numbers

5.8 ppg / 1.5 assists / 2.3 rebounds / .395 - .286 - .66

are slightly favorable to these of this mystery player

4.1 ppg / 1.7 assists / 3.6 rebounds / .339 - .231 - .65

That would be Cedric Jackson, who was as reviled as a player at SJ as there's been in the past 10 years - and rightfully so: he was awful. That he ended up in the NBA bodes well for Phil Greene, if he has the same work ethic. But please to be stop pretending that Greene is anything other than what he is, which is an average freshman.

Foad - great analysis but u f'd up at the end.  Ced jackson was one of marillac's favorite players, and turned out to be the most successful pplayer from that st johns team.  Marillac is gonna rant now about how phil greene WILL BE cedric jackson (and I hope he is).

No one was a Cedric Jackson fan when he was the SJ shooting guard. They would have had to be demented, because he was awful. No one said CJ was a good player at SJ and no one predicted he'd be a good player at Cleveland State. The best that anyone might have said is that it would have been good to keep Cedric around for continuity's sake, in the same way this team would be better off with Quincy Roberts, Omari Lawrence and Tyshwan Edmundson than with three ineligible top 100 recruits. The rest is revisionist history. Speaking of which, did I mentioned I loved Tyshawn's game when he was here? I could tell by the way he dribbled the ball off his feet in the BE that he'd be all-world at Austin Peay

The time off looks to be hurting Nuri,he's making awful decisions with the ball. Lavin not being there is hurting him the most IMO. No swagger,no confidence-it's all there. I think Nuri turns it around very soon. He'll get 20 plus points next game, them he's off to the races

I actually blame the coaches for Nuri's struggles. Now as I stated many times I do not expect us to win many games or even be competitive in a lot of them. Now I also understand that we are undermanned and small. But the way we are playing to limit possessions and basically not to get destroyed is not helping anyone. Passing the ball around the perimeter until 10 seconds is left on the clock could work if you have Dwight Hardy, but it is painful to watch with this squad. Put the ball in Nuri's hands and let him do his thing and the other guys can play off him. Having Nuri stand around the perimeter is not doing anything for anybody. Nuri's jumper is right up there with Reggie Jesse, Avery Patterson, David Cain and Ced Jackson as one of the ugliest in program history. If you are not going to play to Nuri's strengths what is the point of having him? Let the kids play. What is the difference if we lose by 15 or 25?

And speaking Patterson, why do we keep recruiting jump shooters who shoot push shots? Again I like Harrison and the fire he brings but as a primary shooter...... ugh. I see Harrison as more of a third guard. Unfortunately Phil Greene also fits that role. This team needs a shooter for the next couple seeasons to round out the roster.   

Like him or not Cjac could change a game with his defense.  Lindsey can too but in the opposite way.  He is soft nosed and doesn't produce in the clutch.  Right now he's not doing anything well and should be sitting if we could afford it.  At least Greene has some toughness and I'm glad he's starting. He's our best facsimile to a PG so we might as well go with him.  I still have visions of Guerrero dancing in my head.  This team is so snake bit it's unreal.  We finally get a coach and he gets cancer.  We sign a pro prospect in Lindsey and.....Then three guys don't qualify, Anderson flies to the coast and so on.  I'm finally getting a little disinterested but I'll still watch s

I actually blame the coaches for Nuri's struggles. Now as I stated many times I do not expect us to win many games or even be competitive in a lot of them. Now I also understand that we are undermanned and small. But the way we are playing to limit possessions and basically not to get destroyed is not helping anyone. Passing the ball around the perimeter until 10 seconds is left on the clock could work if you have Dwight Hardy, but it is painful to watch with this squad. Put the ball in Nuri's hands and let him do his thing and the other guys can play off him. Having Nuri stand around the perimeter is not doing anything for anybody. Nuri's jumper is right up there with Reggie Jesse, Avery Patterson, David Cain and Ced Jackson as one of the ugliest in program history. If you are not going to play to Nuri's strengths what is the point of having him? Let the kids play. What is the difference if we lose by 15 or 25?

I also do not think we're playing towards Lindsey's strengths.  The last few games we haven't quite played to his style.  I also believe he needs the ball in his hands.  I thought we were doing a good job earlier, but not at the moment.  We have to get out and run, regardless after a missed or made shot.  The only game I didn't mind tempering the running was against Kentucky.  We have to put some more pressure on defenses.

I still have visions of Guerrero dancing in my head.  This team is so snake bit it's unreal.  We finally get a coach and he gets cancer.  We sign a pro prospect in Lindsey and.....Then three guys don't qualify, Anderson flies to the coast and so on.  I'm finally getting a little disinterested but I'll still watch s

Guerrero is actually playing fairly well at Oklahoma State.  It does seem like the program is kinda snake bit.  I'm gonna see what transpires throughout the remainder of the season and in the spring before I start to wonder.

Like him or not Cjac could change a game with his defense.  Lindsey can too but in the opposite way.  He is soft nosed and doesn't produce in the clutch.  Right now he's not doing anything well and should be sitting if we could afford it.  At least Greene has some toughness and I'm glad he's starting. He's our best facsimile to a PG so we might as well go with him.  I still have visions of Guerrero dancing in my head.  This team is so snake bit it's unreal.  We finally get a coach and he gets cancer.  We sign a pro prospect in Lindsey and.....Then three guys don't qualify, Anderson flies to the coast and so on.  I'm finally getting a little disinterested but I'll still watch s

You cannot say anything positive about CJ-didn't you read TOAD'S post-he speaks for all ST J's fans don't you know.

offense should allow nuri to go one on one with his defender. if help comes, he needs to learn to find the open man.

I actually blame the coaches for Nuri's struggles. Now as I stated many times I do not expect us to win many games or even be competitive in a lot of them. Now I also understand that we are undermanned and small. But the way we are playing to limit possessions and basically not to get destroyed is not helping anyone. Passing the ball around the perimeter until 10 seconds is left on the clock could work if you have Dwight Hardy, but it is painful to watch with this squad. Put the ball in Nuri's hands and let him do his thing and the other guys can play off him. Having Nuri stand around the perimeter is not doing anything for anybody. Nuri's jumper is right up there with Reggie Jesse, Avery Patterson, David Cain and Ced Jackson as one of the ugliest in program history. If you are not going to play to Nuri's strengths what is the point of having him? Let the kids play. What is the difference if we lose by 15 or 25?

Agree that the offense stinks and that it doesn't matter because this team is going no where anyway. I also agree its likely that the staff has put Lindsey on a leash after his numerous charges in previous games and that they'd be better off letting him be - they had to have known they weren't getting a prototypical PG when they recruited him. The problem with Lindsey's game isn't just that he can't shoot but that neither can any one else. So the defense sags in the middle and when Lindsey drives he's moving into 5 defenders, with no shooters to kick out to and undersized front line to drop the ball off to, surrounded by the same 5 defenders. They have to spread the floor somehow, which the modified weave doesn't.

Foad - great analysis but u f'd up at the end.  Ced jackson was one of marillac's favorite players, and turned out to be the most successful pplayer from that st johns team.  Marillac is gonna rant now about how phil greene WILL BE cedric jackson (and I hope he is).

Look, Nuri is in a funk.  He hasn't played this caliber of competition probably since the aau circuit his senior year of hs which wasn't that recent.  He certainly needs to snap out of it, but I have faith that the staff will help him come around.

Also marillac great pt about the shot doc.  Nuris shot is a work in progress.  Will come around eventually.  If not, he still can be a successful pg if he utilizes his other skills properly.

Didn't Nuri play in some prestigious LA and PHI summer league this year?

In response to Foad,

I agree Lindsey is far superior to the team than Phil Greene. He can be much more of an impact player than Greene. However I love Phil Greene and think he's a guy that can really play. Although his numbers are less than Lindsey he's done a lot without dominating the ball like Lindsey does. I think Phil is going to be more of an impact guy as the season unfolds.

Quote from: Tha Kid on December 06, 2011, 09:05:20 AM

Foad - great analysis but u f'd up at the end.  Ced jackson was one of marillac's favorite players, and turned out to be the most successful pplayer from that st johns team.  Marillac is gonna rant now about how phil greene WILL BE cedric jackson (and I hope he is).

Look, Nuri is in a funk.  He hasn't played this caliber of competition probably since the aau circuit his senior year of hs which wasn't that recent.  He certainly needs to snap out of it, but I have faith that the staff will help him come around.

Also marillac great pt about the shot doc.  Nuris shot is a work in progress.  Will come around eventually.  If not, he still can be a successful pg if he utilizes his other skills properly.

Didn't Nuri play in some prestigious LA and PHI summer league this year?

You can't count summer league which guys use to get their wind and put up shots

I agree I think the coaching staff has panicked as far as Nuri is concerned. I would rather see him get 5 charges and 10 to's than have him standing around the perimeter.

The lack of shooting. To me is the most alarming thing about this team. Everything else that has happened is not a real surprise. It is not only that this team can't shoot, none of them even take a real jump shot. I don't mean to keep picking on Harrison, but his game has been the furthest away from what I had seen written about him.

Greene jumper isn't awful and I can see him becoming dependable.
Harkless shoots a stand still jumper but being 6-8 he too should be ok.
Pointer at least elevates, but shoots a line drive. If he works really hard I think he could develop a decent jumper.
Nuri's shot is a complete mess.
Harrison has a nice touch but he is not  tall enough,quick or athletic enough to get off that push shot.

no inside/outside game, no coach, no reserves, what do you expect? let these guys play streetball, because whatever they're doing sure isnt working.
- at least harrison had balls to keep shooting 3s even when they werent falling.
- harkless has the best looking shot and should have shot the ball 30x yesterday. he also needs to elbow someone and jam the ball when hes under the basket.