Borzello: Positive Article/Opinion about Coach and the squad

  JB had Norm's coaching staff. 

  These kids have a real coaching staff.  One that has proven to send players to the league.  Big difference.

 Of course there are no "sure things".  But you can't say with certainty that all of these kids won't be difference makers either.  You just choose to look at the negative, which is your schtick, i guess.

 What freshmen don't have flaws or holes in their games 1/2 way through their freshman season?

 I think your biggest problem is your expectations. I think they were too elevated coming into this season.  Did you expect a team of freshman to win 20?  I didn't.

  JB had Norm's coaching staff. 

  These kids have a real coaching staff.  One that has proven to send players to the league.  Big difference.

Fair point. 

 Of course there are no "sure things".  But you can't say with certainty that all of these kids won't be difference makers either.

Never said they wouldn't develop into good players. 

You just choose to look at the negative, which is your schtick, i guess.

Some call it being negative, some would say it's being realistic. 

What freshmen don't have flaws or holes in their games 1/2 way through their freshman season?

Most do...and some never improve on those flaws.  Lets hope our kids do. 

 I think your biggest problem is your expectations. I think they were too elevated coming into this season.  Did you expect a team of freshman to win 20?  I didn't.

My expectation was a .500 season..and that was before we had 2 kids ineligible and two kids transfer. 

Quote from: boo3 on January 06, 2012, 08:22:15 PM

Quote from: Dave on January 06, 2012, 07:55:10 PM

Lets be honest: Getting Moe and D'Angelo is the best thing that's happened to this program past 10 years.

Everyone got spoiled in a year. Team signs best class since early 90's and a few dropped off. You're still left with Moe, D'Angelo, Pointer, Garrett, Gift and Green (both way better than I thought they'd be)

How many guys did Norm get to sign early? Malik Boothe? Omari Lawrence?

You complain about Rico decommiting when 4 years ago Mookie Jones wouldn't even sniff St. John's. So lets calm down and realize that the program has made strides but Rome isn't built in a day or in this case 1 year.

  Amen!

Poor Mookie. Im guessing he regrets the hell out of not sniffing St Johns

I'm guessing Matt Cajuste regrets the hell out of not sniffing Iona also since both have played less than 30 minutes this season for Cuse.....that is total minutes. Mookie was a good loss as a recruit. A father at 18, a big mouth on Twitter, disrespectful to coaches.......alas, Jim Boeheim buried him at the bottom with the walk-ons.
Regrets? He has more than a few...but then again, too few to mention.

This is the most talent we've had since some of the recruiting classes of the late 90s.   I even think this class is more talented than the Omar Cook, Kyle Cuffe, Willie Shaw group, and we know our staff is a billion times superior to that one.  Enjoy the ride, even if this year is bumpier than we originally thought.  And support this group!!

Quote from: boo3 on January 06, 2012, 08:26:06 PM

Pointer, Garret, Greene , and Gift are all going to be solid BE players.  You can't see that @ Ill Will?   Really?  Or do expect them to all be superstars?  All BE first teamers? 

Could you be more negative?

I watched Justin Burrell look like an all-big east calibur player his freshman year, and then fade into almost obvlivion.  There are no guarantees that any of those players will blossom into really good players.  Gift has been non-existent against the better competition this season (sans the kentucky game, which was a blowout anyways.)  Pointer seems like he'll be a solid glue guy, but his game his incredibly flawed right now.  Phil Green has talent but right now he's a backup PG on a good team.  Garrett has looked pretty bad thus far, but that's to be expected I guess with him just coming on. 

There's a difference between being a solid player, and a difference maker.  I can't say that any of those guys will DEFINITELY be difference makers. 

What's wrong with being a solid player?

I've seen Pointer make plays this year that few in the country can make no matter what year they are. His hands defensively are so quick and with a college training program under Coach Pat Dixon he's going to be a monster.

So he struggles handling the ball right now but he knows that and often looks to pass to guards. He's not a knockdown shooter but he knows that and will pump fake and work the ball around to D'Angelo or Greene.  I'd take that wisdom over false confidence.

IllWill you have to look more at the big picture sometimes additionally to both sides of the fence otherwise you're going to keep receiving such negative reactions from the community here.

Compare the talent to other teams in the Big East. I'd take this group over about 8 teams right now. Depth is what's hurting not talent. Inexperience just adds to lack of depth.

Notre Dame is weaker than weak and will only get worse, Villanova the wheels have fell off, USF is improving as a program but riding a lot of upperclassmen, DePaul is definitely improving they have some real good talent and will continue to get some, Providence is definitely improving as a program as well, West Virginia is good not great, Seton Hall will lose a lot next season, Pitt doesn't have anyone besides Robinson coming in next year and they're weak

I think Cincy's future continues to look bright, UConn is stacked, Cuse is stacked, Marquette has a full cupboard, Georgetown has a very good base to build with, Rutgers is similar but I'll keep them in here, Louisville will continue to stack top tier talent

Compare the talent to other teams in the Big East. I'd take this group over about 8 teams right now. Depth is what's hurting not talent. Inexperience just adds to lack of depth.

Notre Dame is weaker than weak and will only get worse, Villanova the wheels have fell off, USF is improving as a program but riding a lot of upperclassmen, DePaul is definitely improving they have some real good talent and will continue to get some, Providence is definitely improving as a program as well, West Virginia is good not great, Seton Hall will lose a lot next season, Pitt doesn't have anyone besides Robinson coming in next year and they're weak

I think Cincy's future continues to look bright, UConn is stacked, Cuse is stacked, Marquette has a full cupboard, Georgetown has a very good base to build with, Rutgers is similar but I'll keep them in here, Louisville will continue to stack top tier talent

Great post Dave.

If Lavin can get one of Gathers and Sampson and add Branch, Obekpa, Felix if he is the package deal, and Sanchez. Those 5 added to this group would complete the weaknesses with our current squad and we are good to go. 

Yeah but Cuse, WVU and Pitt is gone soon.

Gotta look at the jugernauts Houston, SMU and whatever other junk bball programs is comin in.

Yeah but Cuse, WVU and Pitt is gone soon.

Gotta look at the jugernauts Houston, SMU and whatever other junk bball programs is comin in.

Can't look that far ahead Choz. I'm looking at 2011 to 2012. By 2013 who knows what St. John's or any other team will look like.

Quote from: IllWill on January 06, 2012, 08:45:26 PM

Quote from: boo3 on January 06, 2012, 08:26:06 PM

Pointer, Garret, Greene , and Gift are all going to be solid BE players.  You can't see that @ Ill Will?   Really?  Or do expect them to all be superstars?  All BE first teamers? 

Could you be more negative?

I watched Justin Burrell look like an all-big east calibur player his freshman year, and then fade into almost obvlivion.  There are no guarantees that any of those players will blossom into really good players.  Gift has been non-existent against the better competition this season (sans the kentucky game, which was a blowout anyways.)  Pointer seems like he'll be a solid glue guy, but his game his incredibly flawed right now.  Phil Green has talent but right now he's a backup PG on a good team.  Garrett has looked pretty bad thus far, but that's to be expected I guess with him just coming on. 

There's a difference between being a solid player, and a difference maker.  I can't say that any of those guys will DEFINITELY be difference makers. 

What's wrong with being a solid player?

I've seen Pointer make plays this year that few in the country can make no matter what year they are. His hands defensively are so quick and with a college training program under Coach Pat Dixon he's going to be a monster.

So he struggles handling the ball right now but he knows that and often looks to pass to guards. He's not a knockdown shooter but he knows that and will pump fake and work the ball around to D'Angelo or Greene.  I'd take that wisdom over false confidence.

IllWill you have to look more at the big picture sometimes additionally to both sides of the fence otherwise you're going to keep receiving such negative reactions from the community here.

To add on to what Dave said about Pointer....lack of depth has taken away one of Pointers major strengths.  Pointer wants to guard the opponents best player and shut them down with his defense.  Because we are playing little to no man to man, we have only seen a small sample size of what he can do on the defensive end.  And with that small sample size I love what I see out of him.  May not ever be a 15 point per game scorer, but no one will be questioning his game in 2 to 3 years!!

Quote from: Dave on January 07, 2012, 09:34:10 AM

Quote from: IllWill on January 06, 2012, 08:45:26 PM

Quote from: boo3 on January 06, 2012, 08:26:06 PM

Pointer, Garret, Greene , and Gift are all going to be solid BE players.  You can't see that @ Ill Will?   Really?  Or do expect them to all be superstars?  All BE first teamers? 

Could you be more negative?

I watched Justin Burrell look like an all-big east calibur player his freshman year, and then fade into almost obvlivion.  There are no guarantees that any of those players will blossom into really good players.  Gift has been non-existent against the better competition this season (sans the kentucky game, which was a blowout anyways.)  Pointer seems like he'll be a solid glue guy, but his game his incredibly flawed right now.  Phil Green has talent but right now he's a backup PG on a good team.  Garrett has looked pretty bad thus far, but that's to be expected I guess with him just coming on. 

There's a difference between being a solid player, and a difference maker.  I can't say that any of those guys will DEFINITELY be difference makers. 

What's wrong with being a solid player?

I've seen Pointer make plays this year that few in the country can make no matter what year they are. His hands defensively are so quick and with a college training program under Coach Pat Dixon he's going to be a monster.

So he struggles handling the ball right now but he knows that and often looks to pass to guards. He's not a knockdown shooter but he knows that and will pump fake and work the ball around to D'Angelo or Greene.  I'd take that wisdom over false confidence.

IllWill you have to look more at the big picture sometimes additionally to both sides of the fence otherwise you're going to keep receiving such negative reactions from the community here.

To add on to what Dave said about Pointer....lack of depth has taken away one of Pointers major strengths.  Pointer wants to guard the opponents best player and shut them down with his defense.  Because we are playing little to no man to man, we have only seen a small sample size of what he can do on the defensive end.  And with that small sample size I love what I see out of him.  May not ever be a 15 point per game scorer, but no one will be questioning his game in 2 to 3 years!!

Pointer when we are able to use him the way he is supposed to will be a 12 PPG scorer, nice rebounder for his position, and will be up at the top of the Big East in steals. He may never be the big time scoring threat but will get his points in transition and will get better hitting an open shot.

Pointer, Garret, Greene , and Gift are all going to be solid BE players.  You can't see that @ Ill Will?   Really?  Or do expect them to all be superstars?  All BE first teamers? 

Could you be more negative? .

Pointer was our highest rated recruit. He also showed the most improvement from the beginning of last year to the end. By next year he ll be a solid BE player.

Quote from: upstate32 on January 07, 2012, 10:02:18 AM

To add on to what Dave said about Pointer....lack of depth has taken away one of Pointers major strengths.  Pointer wants to guard the opponents best player and shut them down with his defense.  Because we are playing little to no man to man, we have only seen a small sample size of what he can do on the defensive end.  And with that small sample size I love what I see out of him.  May not ever be a 15 point per game scorer, but no one will be questioning his game in 2 to 3 years!!

Pointer when we are able to use him the way he is supposed to will be a 12 PPG scorer, nice rebounder for his position, and will be up at the top of the Big East in steals. He may never be the big time scoring threat but will get his points in transition and will get better hitting an open shot.

We all saw how Postell looked his freshmen year versus his sophomore year.  I'm not saying Pointer is gonna make the same transition, but he seems like a kid who is gonna work hard.  If he does make the transition (offensively) during his years at St. John's then we're gonna be that much more dangerous. 

I also believe, if we end up with Branch, Obekpa, Balamolu (sp?), Sanchez, Sampson and/or Gathers, to go with this current bunch....  Watch out!  The groundwork will have been put into place for the program.

I'm confident in saying we'll end up with a pretty decent-to-solid class for 2012. 

Quote from: sju89tr on January 07, 2012, 11:06:31 AM

Quote from: upstate32 on January 07, 2012, 10:02:18 AM

To add on to what Dave said about Pointer....lack of depth has taken away one of Pointers major strengths.  Pointer wants to guard the opponents best player and shut them down with his defense.  Because we are playing little to no man to man, we have only seen a small sample size of what he can do on the defensive end.  And with that small sample size I love what I see out of him.  May not ever be a 15 point per game scorer, but no one will be questioning his game in 2 to 3 years!!

Pointer when we are able to use him the way he is supposed to will be a 12 PPG scorer, nice rebounder for his position, and will be up at the top of the Big East in steals. He may never be the big time scoring threat but will get his points in transition and will get better hitting an open shot.

We all saw how Postell looked his freshmen year versus his sophomore year.  I'm not saying Pointer is gonna make the same transition, but he seems like a kid who is gonna work hard.  If he does make the transition (offensively) during his years at St. John's then we're gonna be that much more dangerous. 

I also believe, if we end up with Branch, Obekpa, Balamolu (sp?), Sanchez, Sampson and/or Gathers, to go with this current bunch....  Watch out!  The groundwork will have been put into place for the program.

I'm confident in saying we'll end up with a pretty decent-to-solid class for 2012.

Dinkins, we are going to have a better than solid class, Lavin has always recruited and no reason to stop now.

Quote from: IllWill on January 06, 2012, 08:45:26 PM

Quote from: boo3 on January 06, 2012, 08:26:06 PM

Pointer, Garret, Greene , and Gift are all going to be solid BE players.  You can't see that @ Ill Will?   Really?  Or do expect them to all be superstars?  All BE first teamers? 

Could you be more negative?

I watched Justin Burrell look like an all-big east calibur player his freshman year, and then fade into almost obvlivion.  There are no guarantees that any of those players will blossom into really good players.  Gift has been non-existent against the better competition this season (sans the kentucky game, which was a blowout anyways.)  Pointer seems like he'll be a solid glue guy, but his game his incredibly flawed right now.  Phil Green has talent but right now he's a backup PG on a good team.  Garrett has looked pretty bad thus far, but that's to be expected I guess with him just coming on. 

There's a difference between being a solid player, and a difference maker.  I can't say that any of those guys will DEFINITELY be difference makers. 

What's wrong with being a solid player?

Absolutely nothing!  But, I wasn't responding to the claims that these kids would become solid BE players...I was responding to a claim that they would develop into big-time BE players.  There's a difference....

IllWill you have to look more at the big picture sometimes additionally to both sides of the fence otherwise you're going to keep receiving such negative reactions from the community here.

The negative reactions come from caught feelings, lack of comprehension, and failure to read posts thoroughly.   I'm more realistic, than negative. 

Quote from: Dave on January 06, 2012, 07:55:10 PM

Lets be honest: Getting Moe and D'Angelo is the best thing that's happened to this program past 10 years.

Everyone got spoiled in a year. Team signs best class since early 90's and a few dropped off. You're still left with Moe, D'Angelo, Pointer, Garrett, Gift and Green (both way better than I thought they'd be)

How many guys did Norm get to sign early? Malik Boothe? Omari Lawrence?

You complain about Rico decommiting when 4 years ago Mookie Jones wouldn't even sniff St. John's. So lets calm down and realize that the program has made strides but Rome isn't built in a day or in this case 1 year.

  Amen!

As usual Dave , you are the voice of reason. Everything has not gone the way it was planned, but given the circumstances we are still 8-7, with a very young team. I have confidence that the staff will add a few good players for next year, and we will be ready to take off.

Justin Burrell never looked like an All BE player. He certainly didn't look like one his freshman year. That's just plain crazy talk. This is the same guy who couldn't solve the Purple Eagle front court, Tulane or Ohio. 

Beach Bum -

Mookie was a good loss as a recruit. A father at 18, a big mouth on Twitter, disrespectful to coaches.......alas, Jim Boeheim buried him at the bottom with the walk-ons.

What does Mookie Jones being a Father @ 18 have to do with him being a good miss as a recruit.? While not playing on that Syracuse team is no commentary on his abilities, having a Senior upperclassman on this team would certainly be a good thing.

We will learn everything we need to know about this class when they return next season for their sophomore year.
Postell was a great example. Actually, my personal favorite. He developed like an SU player.

Justin Burrell never looked like an All BE player. He certainly didn't look like one his freshman year. That's just plain crazy talk. This is the same guy who couldn't solve the Purple Eagle front court, Tulane or Ohio.

I could be wrong but I remember JB being a very impressive freshman...i think he averaged 12 points and 6 boards per game....as a freshman.  I ddin't mean he looked like an ALL BE player i meant based on his freshman year you would have thought he would have developed into one.